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Posts: 1
Joined: October 4, 2011
Posted: October 4, 2011, 5:17 PM
Hello, to whoever is out there. I have been on methadone for 4 yrs. I took my last dose last Wednesday. Went to Suboxone Dr. She gave me 30 30mg oxy's to take for 5 days. Didnt abuse them... too much. And that's what scares me. I took 24 mg of Suboxone yesterday, 24 mg of Suboxone today... Im still feeling like hell. I was very depressed this morning. Cried a few times for many reasons. Depression is starting to lift away. I didn't sleep last night, haven't eaten in 2 days, just water. I guess what im trying to say, has anyone ever detoxed like this before? Im sooo weak, cant eat or sleep . How long will this last before the suboxone starts doing its job? -Will-
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Posts: 6750
Joined: September 15, 2005
Posted: October 4, 2011, 7:53 PM
I preface what I am about write is I not your doctor do not change ANY meds if your that sick please go to911
You wrote that you got off the methadone--How may MG were you On before this doctor gave oxy? If you were weaned to 30 mg or less-or did your doctor just switch you with OXY -When was your last Oxy and did you go minimum 24 hours 100% clean> Amount of sub and how do you dose each day from the time-Your on 24mg JMO could be making you sick-- Are you using the sub correctly under tongue and it should take 1-2 minutes so you may be taking to fast another possibility-- I was given 8mg -orange little sub-lingual each 2mg 4hrs--by 5pm JMO but 24 mg is just plain crazy--If I was you well will state it these way talk to your doctor as You should be feeling okay if not amazed. The curveball as I Do not know your history is the methadone--So please respond--In the meantime water--good diet no crap least amount of caffeine--you should be feeling better each day--Its an amazing med but only if you have the right doctor? She an addiction specialist? Did she suggest 12 step meetings? The sub stopped the cravings within 2 doses 4mg for me--But as per the doctor AA was highly suggested and out patient was the key-- Outpatient was that ever discussed? Did the doctor evaluate you and keep you the first day as if you did go 24 hours narcotic free your B.P would be high--that is why my doctor was going to commit me if I was not within a certain B,P as some people get very sick from sub. Sorry for all the questions but suboxone can save your life Like it did for me but only with a good doctor-- Jeff -------------------- It is Just Not worth it. "Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the puck happened." One Day At A Time | ||
Posts: 20396
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posted: October 4, 2011, 9:45 PM
Sounds to me like you're taking too much Sub, didn't wait long enough between the oxy's and sub and came off of too much methadone too fast. That'll make you sick.
Hope your doc is a addiction specialist. If not, find one. Try taking less sub, maybe 4 mg at a time..see how you feel before taking more. I'm sorry you don't feel well but it really sounds like the sub put you into withdrawals. -------------------- I used Drugs to forget, I got clean to remember. | ||
Posts: 10092
Joined: October 27, 2004
Posted: October 4, 2011, 10:11 PM
Going from methadone to sub is one rough adventure, and switching at that dose is way higher than recommended but has been done.
I don't think you are in wd from the switch, you would be in full on wd, everything instantly and no dose of sub would stop it. It will take more than the normal 3 days to adjust to the sub, and most likely near a week but you should see a bit of improvement after the 3rd day. I don't think your dose is too high and yet it could be, it could to low too. Has you doctor done this switch before, if so I would be asking lots of questions, first would be how long was it in general to stabilize, second would be dose and not only reason behind it but how other patients similar did on the dose they started on, what were their main complaints when should you be adjusting up or down and what the plan is as you move on... Hang in there ... -------------------- Well it sucks, now doesn't it? When you make your own bed and then have to lie in the filth. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There was a glitch due to system overload. Please stand by to find out what future you will design. | ||
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Posts: 20396
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posted: October 5, 2011, 10:55 AM
If you take the sub too soon, it will put you into precipitated withdrawals, right Tina? With that much methadone and then oxy filling the receptors, the sub wouldn't work, right? That's the way I understood it from Jake's dr. He went from 160 mg of oxycontin for over a year to sub but had to wait 4 days before taking the sub because of the long acting oxy?
I'm confused. But no matter, I just hope that the poster is feeling better at least by today. -------------------- I used Drugs to forget, I got clean to remember. | ||
Posts: 15
Joined: October 4, 2011
Posted: October 5, 2011, 1:29 PM
hi going from 70 mills of methadone to suboxone is crazy its recomended you go down to at least 30 on the meth and then 72 hours col turkey before going on subs you need to be relatively clean from opiates and opioids before starting on suboxone. Im currently on 12mg per day of suboxone. I was shooting 64mg of dilaudid and 300mg of oxy, and also taking 180mg of morphine orally every day on August 21 I went to detox, got out on the 25 and started on subs and I was sick throughout detox. the subs took away all withdrawals and cravings within an hour. I was taking 16mg per day 8 in the morning and 8 at about4pm. maybe you should see another doctor.
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Posts: 10092
Joined: October 27, 2004
Posted: October 5, 2011, 2:34 PM
Methadone is the hardest and most complicated switch, like no other opiate... You aren't typing on a computer in precipitated wd, I ain't seeing that happening. I guess you could be but if you have never seen this I doubt it...
I don't think this is precipitated wd...This is a rough switch even if you do it totally right and go down to 30 stabilize wait the 72 plus hours and switch.... The fact that he wrote that the depression was starting to lift a bit is a good sign I would think, it could take a week to adjust... Check in Will hope you are feeling a bit better today and called your doctor to have a chat. Lisa, your son did not have to wait 4 days to switch...You just got to be in moderate to severe wd. 24 -30 hours Jake should have been sick enough. Guidelines are still 24 hours at least from what I know. They have the Cows scale they use and would have checked him and known if he was good to go... Some doctors just want their patients clean, some make up their own rules...It is always is easier to switch if clean when you are taking high doses... -------------------- Well it sucks, now doesn't it? When you make your own bed and then have to lie in the filth. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There was a glitch due to system overload. Please stand by to find out what future you will design. | ||
Posts: 2606
Joined: August 18, 2005
Posted: October 5, 2011, 5:55 PM
I dont know much about suboxone - but detoxing off of methadone with Oxys AND subs- -man ,that sounds a little wacky-
I was under the impression that you had to be clean from all opiates for a few days- almost to the point of WD before you could start a sub regiment- -No?? Do I have that wrong?? Is it normal for a doctor to write an oxy script, then follow that up with a suboxone script? I know a little about methadone detoxes- - I never heard of filling the time gap with oxys though - Is that even legal?(Prescribing OXYS) I may be wrong but I was under the impression that doctors can't prescribe narcotics for addiction/withdrawals unless it's methadone or suboxone and they are permitted by SAMHSA> or for a 3 day period in emergency situations while other plans are being made. Some may still do it though and that's great. I wish it was completely up to the doctor whether or not narcotics should be used to treat withdrawal. Someone enlighten me- thanks This post has been edited by jackofhartzz on October 5, 2011, 8:45 PM -------------------- "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over." — Hunter S. Thompson[COLOR=blue] | ||
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Posts: 20396
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posted: October 6, 2011, 12:14 PM
Tina..I think his doc did want him clean or cleaner, before he started on the sub because of the long acting shelf life of oxycontin. Just my understanding. He was in withdrawals when he started and with just 2mg, took it all away within 20 mins. He started him at 4 mg twice a day and then Jake weaned from there to 2 mg a day 6 weeks later..he's been there for over a year now and is stable. I think everyone's different. Certainly doctor's opinion's are.
Methadone is a just a whole nuther can of monkeys. You do have to be in some kind of withdrawals before starting Sub, Jack. Just depends I guess. Wish the poster would come back and say how he's feeling? -------------------- I used Drugs to forget, I got clean to remember. | ||
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Posts: 6750
Joined: September 15, 2005
Posted: October 6, 2011, 2:56 PM
Jack no clue what this doctor used but if your on methadone--and want to go off to sub I was told 30 mg or less before you can be treated--Methadone is a strong med and if this doctor just
gave her these other pills and did not wean of the 70 mg--I would imagine--you will be in a major withdrawal really ill--Hope Will responds---Unless I am confused this person needs a different doctor. Take care Jeff -------------------- It is Just Not worth it. "Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the puck happened." One Day At A Time | ||
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Posts: 10092
Joined: October 27, 2004
Posted: October 6, 2011, 3:39 PM
Lisa, I never know what most doctors are thinking. But the half life thing, if Jake was crushing, chewing them or snorting them that is a mute point the half life isn't long anymore. My son was told don't take any oxy for 24 hours walked in was assessed, dosed and done no problems.
-------------------- Well it sucks, now doesn't it? When you make your own bed and then have to lie in the filth. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There was a glitch due to system overload. Please stand by to find out what future you will design. | ||
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Posts: 2606
Joined: August 18, 2005
Posted: October 7, 2011, 7:18 AM
yEAH- - JUST READING OVER THIS , i WOULD SAY HE SHOULD FIND A doctor with more exp. in addiction- - prescribing oxys, right before suboxone and right after methadone- -just sounds wierd- - but I never got a legal medical degree, ya know***
-------------------- "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over." — Hunter S. Thompson[COLOR=blue] | ||
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Posts: 20396
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posted: October 7, 2011, 11:43 AM
He was crushing, then snorting and smoking but also just swallowing...that's why it was different for him. He tried every which way to Sunday to get as much of that crap in his body for as long as possible. So he did have the issue with the shelf life.. But I understand what you're saying.
Suffice it to say, I am so happy (insert happy dance here) that they changed the way oxycontin is now made. It can't be crushed, snorted, shot up or smoked. Way to go pill makers..nice of you to wait so frickin long. -------------------- I used Drugs to forget, I got clean to remember. | ||
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Posts: 6750
Joined: September 15, 2005
Posted: October 7, 2011, 3:22 PM
hey Lisa the day I was in withdrawal 24 hours to get on the sub --I was over 200mg snorting 10 mg percs--10-20 mg benzos beer--this was my insanity--but does not matter 24 hours and the sub worked---But Methadone from what I learned in outpatient as a few heroin addicts were going on to sub was they had to be on 30 mg or less how many days i have no clue--I guess Will figured it out but its another reason for a methadone thread like suboxone--
Hope things are well-- Jeff -------------------- It is Just Not worth it. "Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the puck happened." One Day At A Time | ||
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Posted: October 8, 2011, 7:19 PM
lamki, nowoczesne lampy, kinkiety, plafony lampy     
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Posts: 267
Joined: September 22, 2011
Posted: October 8, 2011, 7:44 PM
Hope you are being treated by addiction specialist. Methadone ( if you were on 70 mg) is an high dose and as likely know is far more addicting than heroin. Dr was be very familiar with methadone detox regimens
when I was medical director of methadone clinic - long before I became an addict - this was long term maintenance clinic. we detoxed people off methadone very slowly like 2-4 mg every 2 or 3 days or weekly.- real slow. with little to no withdrawal In those days we did not have suboxone. -------------------- Blessings, Dr. Irab retired psychiatrist freebaser of cocaine for 2 years +alcohol addict/alcoholic c/s 12 yrs thru 12 step. Former Medical Director: Methadone Maintenance Clinic. | ||
Posts: 2616
Joined: January 4, 2008
Posted: October 9, 2011, 5:22 AM
Um...can I disagree about the no or little withdrawal in tapering ?.... don't care how slow I go...or how many mls I drop...I experience wd;s ...sometimes severe sometimes mild..but never ending wds all the way through...far as i can see...the only way out is through...regardless of subs...which I might try eventually to get off the methadone at some point...seems like people have had better luck with them...
con | ||
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Posts: 2606
Joined: August 18, 2005
Posted: October 9, 2011, 5:46 AM
we detoxed people off methadone very slowly like 2-4 mg every 2 or 3 days
4 mgs every 2 days???- -That isnt slow .That doctor- is way to fast, especially for a long term MM patient.and most likely would lead to a relapse At that rate , one would be off of 70 mgs(which btw, isnt that high of a dose)- in just over a month - I dont know where you are -but the average dose for MMT in the US is 80 mgs- because in the early days ,when most klinics used the 40mg Lilly diskettes- it was easy to throw 2 of them in the warm water. Now that Melicroft has most of the mdone business, most klinics use the cherry syrupy stuff- it makes it easier to adjust dosages This post has been edited by jackofhartzz on October 9, 2011, 5:54 AM -------------------- "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over." — Hunter S. Thompson[COLOR=blue] | ||
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Posted: October 9, 2011, 3:09 PM
Jack shame Will never has responded--you are 100% Trying to learn how Methadone works as I guess addiction specialist are not into methadone--You seem to know a lot-so people here are lucky.
Jack take care Jeffrey | ||
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Posts: 10092
Joined: October 27, 2004
Posted: October 9, 2011, 9:10 PM
LMAO, love the new name Jeff, Giants pissing you off???
And Jack I just saw what you wrote about the using oxy to go from methadone to sub. It happens, some doctors don't know how the hell to get their patients from point a to b because of the long amount of wd they will have to suffer through to get there. I can't wrap my head around a switch that high, but more and more there are doctors touting they can switch at 60, which seems sick when the protocol is 30 at least, they would love ya to go lower, but at least at that dose they think they have some change of things going ok. I am all for not suffering, and wish they had a better way, somewhere... -------------------- Well it sucks, now doesn't it? When you make your own bed and then have to lie in the filth. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There was a glitch due to system overload. Please stand by to find out what future you will design. | ||
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