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Message Board > Families / Partners of Addicts > Manipulation

Posted by: Parenting May 23, 2017, 5:27 PM
This was supposed to be in the family section. Could someone move this please? Thanks!

Hi all,

Please help save my sanity. ha.

I can tell when I am being obviously manipulated, but sometimes I wonder if I can tell when I am being subtly manipulated.

My kid obviously has drug and/or mental health issues. However, today, he was texting me that he was going to kill himself and he was texting that he was crying, etc. I had no reason not to believe him. When I called the school counselor to check on him, the counselor said he was in study hall laughing with his friends. Like, at the moment he was texting me!!! There was no reason to do this and he gets nothing out of it. I even stopped responding when he does this and he does not know I call the school counselor even (never sees the counselor checking either).

I seriously had the thought today that maybe my kid would be 100% better off without me in his life right now. Maybe I bring out the worst in him. (I don't mean suicidal, etc.). I mean, maybe he needs me to totally step away and let other people deal with him. Does this make sense?

This thing today made me feel like an utter idiot. The counselor and the school administration seem to think I am contributing to this behavior (or maybe I just feel that way-judged). They think he is getting his way, but he never gets his way behaving like this-he just keeps getting in more and more trouble. Anyway, I had this stop my tracks moment and just thought I need to leave him alone totally. Has anyone had a similar epiphany?

Posted by: lolleedee May 25, 2017, 2:10 AM
Just because he was laughing with his friends at the time of his text doesn't mean he was manipulating you. It is quite possible these are his actual feelings. As teenagers, they often show one "face" to their peers and another one, usually a more honest one, to their families.

Suicidal ideation should NEVER be ignored. It is not true that people who commit suicide do not talk about it first. Actually, almost everyone who actually tries suicide tells someone, sometimes jokingly, sometimes just in passing, but they almost always vocalize their wish to be dead.

I do not know if you are contributing to his behavior or one here is qualified to say. However, you are his mom and you do not have the luxury of walking away (though, it might seem easier). It is your job to protect him from himself.

I would save the text messages and immediately have him evaluated. Take the text messages and take him to the emergency room for a psych evaluation. It is always better to over react than to be mourning your dead child. Even though he may "appear" to be ok, the fact that he is talking about suicide should be taken seriously. People who are emotionally healthy do not make such statements and so his mental health needs to be evaluated.

As for his behavior gtiing him in trouble, sometimes kids act out because they feel that negative attention beats the alternative of feeling invisible. I am not implying you are ignoring him, but teenagers aften feel alone or misunderstood and those with co-occuring addiction or mental illness are even more likely to experience those feelings.

Go get help immediately! His very life could quiet possibly depend on it! We are here if you need us!

Posted by: hurtingmom May 25, 2017, 10:18 AM
Parenting . . .sending big hugs . . .gosh, you brought back some memories of when my daughter was in high school.

I concur with Lolle . . . have him evaluated. . . suicide is nothing to take lightly . . .as is depression and/or addiction. Based upon that I might look at therapeutic boarding or day schools. He can get the help he needs in an environment that is more structured than most parents can provide, with 24 hour supervision and still graduate on time.

We made the difficult decision to send our daughter to such a school in her sophomore year of high school. We had already done the psychiatric hospital, Teen AA, groups, family therapy, individual therapy, IOP, partial hospitalization . . . hell, we put bells on our front door so that we could hear her leave the house . . . one of us would sleep on the sofa downstairs and the other would sleep upstairs. She was diagnosed with ADD, depression, alcoholism and pill addiction at the time. She was running away. She had already made a suicide attempt (hence the psychiatric hospital). She was out of control . . .and needed 24 hour supervision, behavior modification, to detox, to get away from the folks she was hanging out with.

We found a religious boarding school for troubled teens in the hinterlands of West Virginia, a 9 hour drive. We didn't just drive her there, give her kisses and say "bye bye" . . . we didn't just throw her away. We were involved in her life . . .albeit differently. We went to every Parents' Weekend, which was once a month . . . and we talked and wrote. After a few months, she earned the privilege of coming home more frequently, or us going down there more than once a month. We did all kinds of therapy while we were there . . . as well as by phone/skype. Don't know if you have considered therapeutic boarding school, or summer camp, or whatever may be available. Perhaps you can find one that will meet both your and your son's needs.

No matter what . . . hang in there, Mama. Your son is still a minor . . .a baby. Don't stop fighting for your baby yet. Get your baby some immediate help. . .and some long term help, too. And, get some support for you, too!!

Sending Hugs,

Posted by: Parenting May 25, 2017, 11:46 AM
Hi guys,

Thank you. I do take it seriously. He always says this when I will not give him something. I have had the police do a wellness twice when I was at work. He actually told one of the officers, "My Mom is so gullible, she is a f---- idiot." He also says he is going to kill me quite often. But, when anyone else shows up (police, family) to help, he acts very calm and says he never said any of that. He is quite convincing. One time he actually poked me hard when the police officer turned his back.

He only does this to immediate family. I did have the counselor evaluate him twice. And, of course, he called to say that my son is an absolute gem and doing really well. Also, the police have told me he is not suicidal and that he is a manipulator. Which does not rule out he would actually do it at some point or "fake it" but succeed, but how would I ever stop it???? I cannot give him what he wants 24/7.

He absolutely refuses help, even threatening to jump out of the car (and I believe he would do it). I have contacted everyone I can think of about forcing him somewhere and they all say it would not work (for a variety of reasons). it is really frustrating because one agency told me I have the power to force the police or EMT to take him. So, I set it all up when he was saying these things----they refused to take him because their assessment showed zero risk.

It is hard because I am his Mom and I have been in the trenches now for awhile. He is an absolute abusive, obnoxious person to me almost every moment. The only reason my sister is onboard now is she overheard him one day. She was horrified. This is way more than normal teen stuff. I think it is time for us to get some distance. I cannot save him from himself-it only seems to push him more towards crashing on these peoples' couches.

I think he has a serious mental disorder, maybe anti-social or borderline. It is not possible to have a relationship with him at this point. Very sad and frustrating. His thinking is severely messed up.

Thanks for listening.

Posted by: Parenting May 25, 2017, 11:53 AM
Also, I appreciate the advice on boarding schools. They won't take him either because he is too close to 18 or because they determine he would just run away. Apparently, close to 18, they have trouble controlling them also.

I have offered sweet deal to him. Things I would have loved in high school! Travel or therapeutic schools that look awesome, but of course, he refuses and says he would do whatever he could to escape.

Obviously, addiction issues also. So, nothing is as attractive as his drugs.

Posted by: Mandm May 25, 2017, 11:55 AM
Hi P, I'm sorry but I can't remember how old your son is or what drugs he's experimenting with? First of all I wanted to tell you that any dealings I had with school counselors was a waste of time. They weren't interested enough and I think drugs was out of their comfort zone and they were at a loss for what to do. My daughter was fine until she got into high school. If I had thought she was going to get into drugs in high school I would never have sent her there. I know how you feel P as I've felt the same as you many times. I would take him somewhere to speak to a professional. Maybe it's the peer pressure he has with his friends to do drugs that's making him feel like this. Maybe he feels trapped and he's texting you as his cry for help. He can't ask his friends for help because chances are their all on drugs too. My daughter use to talk about suicide at times, still does! Drugs mess with their emotions and get them confused. I ended up pulling my daughter out of high school her senior year. I had enough and she went and got a GED and then a job. But here I am 18 yrs later and she's still on drugs. So I think I wasn't quick enough or I didn't know enough to help her. Looking back I think if I was a mother now with kids going into high school I'd pull them out and home school them. I hope things get better for you. You should go talk to someone yourself who can help you with all this worry too. Take care. Mary.
PS, I just read your last post about him not wanting help. Throw him out!! Let him see how it is to live in the real world when you have a drug habit. You shouldn't have to put up with his abuse. Enough s enough! I'm sorry P you sound like a nice mom too. But we all were at one time until drugs ruined our lives. It's just awful P, I've been where you are and I'm here for you now. Mary.

Posted by: Parenting May 25, 2017, 12:24 PM
THANK YOU SO MUCH. It helps to know I am not alone. His Dad & I both have been going through shock/disbelief/emotional roller coaster since he turned 17 last fall. But, at some point, you get burned so many times....he's like a porcupine!

I agree that he needs to get the boot. We're waiting til he turns 18. Its so SAD and disgusting.

Posted by: Mandm May 25, 2017, 12:51 PM
What drugs is he taking? Mine was taking heroin!! Now that's as bad as it gets! Pot is bad but I think there's hope for ones that do pot to grow up and come off it. What does your husband suggest to do? Can I ask why are you waiting until he's 18 to throw him out? Is it because he's got school to go to? School when their doing drugs like heroin is a waste of time. That's why I'm wondering what drug he is doing? It wouldn't make any difference to me him 18 or 16 if he's abusive and thinks he can rule the roost I'd show him the door. He'll learn in a couple of days or so which side his bread is buttered on and come crawling home with a better attitude. They miss their creature comforts because we have an age of spoiled brats on our hands. Give him no money or any luxuries anymore. If he has a car, take it away from him. If you pay his phone, stop paying it! He doesn't deserve any help from you with the way he treats you. Good Luck P. Mary.

Posted by: Parenting May 25, 2017, 1:18 PM
Hi Mary,

What type of drug is a mystery. I know he smokes a lot of pot. He claims that is all he does. I did drug test him twice in his life and only showed pot. But, one time, he offered-----hmmmm. I suspect he is doing other things. But, who knows?

The way we understand the law is we cannot kick him out until he turns 18. Not sure.

One of the things that scares me so about his future: He has not been able to drive since we found out what he was doing and running off, etc. We stopped paying for his school lunch, phone, and most of his incidentals. (Although I admit, we take him to doctor, dentist, haircut, and sometimes buy him clothes). You would think he would want to drive!!! But, no. And, nothing seems to reach him. His behavior is kind of like a drug fiend sort of obsession right now...

I hope someday he wakes up. I know he really struggles with his own brain and thoughts. I do feel for him, but he has burned me so many times and just seriously shocked me to death with his evil comments that I have pulled away. I am glad I no longer feel sorry for him, because he was just taking advantage of those types of feelings. Like my best friend said, "What haven't you done for this kid??". It is time to pull back.

I am very nice and probably too nice and understanding. In my early 20s I realized I just cannot be around manipulative people. I am very careful who I let in my life, because I am very sensitive. I cannot believe that I have a son like this. You know? Unreal that I am sort of stuck with this really evil person. I do plan on filing a restraining order when he turns 18. I cannot handle it at all anymore.

On a positive note, I was sitting in my despair after my post about driving off to oblivion (ha ha), and realized that I have to DO SOMETHING really drastic to get me out of this. So, I started going to the gym and hitting it hard (like when I was young!). It has helped tremendously and helped me focus on something other than this kid.

I just have to let him go, let him know I love him and that if he ever wants help I will be here for him in spades. I did text him something like this and guess what his answer was? " F--- you, b----". What is this craziness???? I know he is hanging around some really aggressive, abusive people. Guess he is picking it up there. See if they are there for him when we kick him out. : (

Thanks all. So overwhelming and it helps so much to have this place.

Posted by: Mandm May 25, 2017, 1:31 PM
I think you've done everything I would have done to try and help him. I wouldn't care what the rules are about him living with you to a certain age. I'd be damned if id put up with him texting messages like that. Who does he think he is that he can talk like that to you. Again, been there!! Next time he tells you to fxxx off tell him to and not to bother coming to the house because he's gone and you intend to call the police. See how that works for him. I've even changed my phone numbers and the peace I got was so great! Police nowadays know what like kids are when their on drugs. If it helps you, go talk to the police and ask them, show them his texts and say your frightened of him too. Because it is scary! If the authorities don't want you to throw him out let them take custody of him and he can go live in foster care. There's other kids out there that aren't 18. Worse thing is for you to do is, don't feel sorry for him!! Play hard ball with him. Good your going to the gym does help! Take care P. I'm real sorry your going through this. Mary.

Posted by: Parenting May 25, 2017, 1:36 PM
Mary! Giant hugs!!!

Thank you so much and everyone here.

I needed to hear that!!!!

<3 <3 (Supposed to be hearts)

Posted by: Mandm May 25, 2017, 5:20 PM
P, read up on that fake pot called "Spice" it causes rage. I hope he's not doing any of these hard drugs but there all addictive even pot. Mary.🌻

Posted by: hurtingmom May 25, 2017, 6:22 PM
Ok P . . . can't blame you if you throw him out . . .all of us have our limits . . .you are his mom . . .not his personal door mat or punching bag. . . giving our kids unconditional love does not mean that we have to take any old crap that they hand out. Only you can say when you are done . . .when you've had enough. Whatever you decide, we will be 1000% behind you.

BUT . . . don't want your decision to come back to bite you in the a** To protect yourself legally . . . before you throw him out . . .please go to court and file a motion (or application) to have him emancipated . . .at least put the paperwork in . . .it may take a minute in my state you have to show that he is independent and capable of living separate and apart . . .or beyond the scope of parental influence and control. Many state court websites have self-help kits for folks that do not have attorneys. If yours does not, take a trip to your local court, someone there will be able to help you fill out the forms (although they will probably not be able to give you legal advice.) By going this route you will legally not be responsible for any of his bills or anything that he does even though he is still chronologically a minor because according to the Courts he is independent from you. Also, you will never have to worry about DYFS or anyone even suggesting that you abandoned him, or endangered the welfare of a minor, or any of that other stuff.

While he is close to 18 (you didn't say how close), you may have another option . . . Here's one . . .making him a ward of the state. That is, you would sign over some/all of your parental rights & place him in the care of the state. I'm not sure what your rights and responsibilities will be if you take this step. Consult with a lawyer. If you are unable to afford one, you may be able to receive legal assistance through your county's legal aid society. Or, your human/social services department may have information.

Making him a ward of the state is a pretty major decision and not easily undone. Some states have a program where you work with social services to have your child live some place else, but you don't give up your rights and can pull the child out if you change your mind. Please call your social/human services department. I've heard this program called "parental placement." Don't worry about what it is called. But perhaps it is worth a call to see what options you may have.

Finally, you may be able to get help and services if he is found to be a Child in Need of Services or Supervision. Here, you would need to go to court . . . generally family court.

I don't mean to add to your stress . . .or agnst . . .or things to do list. But if you go down this road, PROTECT YOURSELF!!!

Sending hugs,

Posted by: Plopez May 25, 2017, 8:05 PM
Hi P,
Im so sorry you are going through this. My son started at 13 smoking pot, then pills, then he OD on 3 bottles of cough syrup and was in intensive care for 3 days. We too have done everything.......Dealing with school, counselors, finding a mentor, taking parenting classes, psychologist, psychiatrist, etc. First rehab was at 14.......and it has only gotten worse. His dad passed away 2 years ago and it got even worse with meth, heroin, wet, etc.
I refuse to give up bit after going to Alanon meetings and our family on this site......I choose to take care of me now. I was addicted to my son and it was driving me crazy...I couldn't sleep and was a wreck.
I will say this.....God has a plan and today my son is in his 14th rehab and moving to a structured sober living tomorrow. He has been clean 30 days. Ive had my son back for those days and he has apologized and told me how much he loves me. I choose to cherish every moment because it could change in minutes. If it does, he will always know I love him but will no longer enable him.I don't get angry and scream! Why???? because they are sick.....they don't want this.

As suggested previously, it does sound like he may have tried spice because that doesn't show on a drug test. Spice is awful!!!!!!My son was on that as well. I feel your pain. Its stressful!!
Would RUN to an Alanon meeting and hopefully your husband will go so y'all can be on the same page. He needs to understand this is your home and he needs to follow your rules. I agree with Lynn to take care of yourself legally but once he is 18...out the door. It is not easy so be prepared.

We are all here for you so you are in a good place. Sad that we all are in this place! But, God has a plan and I truly think that my sons addiction has brought me closer to God. Have faith over worry and let God take it from here.

Hugs and Prayers,

Posted by: Mandm May 25, 2017, 8:52 PM
Hi P, I'm sure there are rules you have to follow. When my kid is back talking me and cursing me. I don't care what age he or she is, rules or no rules I'm throwing her out. But as spoiled as these kids are nowadays they'll be back begging to come home again in no time. Good luck, Mary 🌻

Paula....So glad to hear Z is doing good. It sure was rough going for a long while when he was on that Wet. I was scared for him because of where he was and what was happening to him. Thank God he's on the right path again. Im glad your doing better now too. Z definitely has a guardian angel looking out for him. Take care Paula, good to see you! Mary🌻

Posted by: NyToFlorida May 25, 2017, 9:00 PM
Hi Parenting - ditto everything HM said. also you can save your text messages - on an iphone - double click on the message, copy/more, lower right arrow - send to your email account.

As HM said in a different post - keep a calendar and write down notes of what happens each day so you have documentation. I have done this - it keeps you sane - so everything is not just in your head.

dont tell him about restraining order - you dont want him to react violently against you. Keep yourself safe - rarely be alone w him. dont respond to the text messages - when you do that is positive reinforcement - or negative reinforcement - if your husband is not home, go to a friend or relative's house. he is unpredictable. if you are alone, at first sign of his manipulation, leave the house. or just leave whenever he is there. "oh! I'm going to the gym!"

It must be confusing and sad for you to be the one he manipulates and is violent towards. It may be that you are the most sane and he needs to keep you afraid so you dont ruin his 'fun'.

all and all - not normal - might be influenced by the drugs he takes. I totally agree you have to remove yourself from him. only then will he understand what he has lost. and then, give yourself a time line to stick to - such as no contact for 6 mo or a year. a few weeks will not teach him anything.

dont worry about what he has missed or lost - he does not care - when he does care enough, he can obtain those things for himself. (phone car etc)

Posted by: NyToFlorida May 25, 2017, 9:07 PM
Paula - Happy to hear Z is out of that mess. As much as you can try to 'make' him stay in sober living for as long as possible. I suggest a year. my son was not using the drugs Z was and was compliant in rehab/sober living for 3 months, and then again for 5 months, then spent four sober months w sister, and still would relapse when ever on his own. he is home and working but I suspect is still dabbling. stays at a gf house most nights. which is fine, we can relax around the house. my point is that they need a long sober time to get past it, but after a short sober time, they think they can manage it.... you must be getting some good sleep now!

Posted by: Parenting May 25, 2017, 11:29 PM
Thanks all. This is so very difficult as you all know.

I think he does push me away because I don't do drugs and don't really even drink much. I had my day in high school, but quit/settled down pretty much when I turned 19. He tells me all the time that there are cool parents, that let them do drugs and drink, etc. He tells me these parents think I am crazy and a goody-two-shoes. I really am not, but I am aware enough to know that the path he and they are on is not a happy one. Many of the parents have police records themselves. I thought that talking with a couple of the moms would help when this first started but they wouldn't even come to the door (pretend not to be home). They lie about if my son is there, cover for him. One of the boys told me that he wished he had a mom who cared like me. I thought to myself, I wish I had a son who wanted a mom like me! :(

Honestly, it completely breaks my heart at times, but I know for sure that my pain is not a concern of his. So, I am trying SO hard to think of him as a person and not my son. I would not put up with this crap from anyone else. At this time in his life, he truly does not care about me or can't have me around because I interfere with his habit.

All I can do is try to stay in the moment and try very hard to enjoy little moments. I need to detach. It is so painful sometimes. But, I know I need to. And, I cannot be in someone's life unless they want me there.

Plus, on some level, he is just throwing tantrums and being a bully. If he does not stop that behavior, what is the point? Like someone said, I am not his punching bag.

I go through times where I cry about it still, but I guess that is normal. Tonight, I was very sad (overly tired). I went for a walk and tried hard to just look at the clouds and the trees, etc. It made me feel better. I thought that I gave him a good childhood, lots of fun times. And, I was willing to help him with whatever path he wanted to take. And, he knows that. So, that is all I can really say about it at this point. I did my job. And, he will be 18 in about 3 months. So, my job is really moving to another place.

It is hard to let go!!! But, being here helps. And, I know I can't let him treat me like this. If he cannot or will not change, he cannot be in my life. : (

Thanks for being here everyone! Life is good, and I have tried hard to make the best of a very rocky life myself with lots of challenges and family deaths. I gotta be tough!! :)

Posted by: Shell2639 May 25, 2017, 11:35 PM
I can relate to all you're going through. Our son has been extremely violent in the past and has hurt himself and
/or tried to commit suicide a few times. The very first time he sliced his wrist open, it was because I wouldn't stop bugging him to get up for school (his words). After that, we knew he would do just about anything to spite us. He's been diagnosed with all the typical nowadays diagnosed...ADD, depression, anxiety. The "good" psychiatrists would give him meds, which he would abuse. He would take a whole months worth of Adderall in five days, got very addicted to Klonopin. It seemed to be one big game to him. The counselors, probation officers, and any other professionals he saw would all basically wash their hands , of him after a time. He quit school at 16. At that time, we were told that no one would make him go to school but that we were responsible for his care until he turned 18. That was fine. We called the police any and every time he got violent. I don't have any great advice. I've spent almost seventeen years dealing with our son and he's not much different than he's always been except now it's primarily heroin. I don't give him the opportunity to be violent because I will not let him live with us ever again. You aren't alone at all. I understand what you go through.

Posted by: Sad53 May 26, 2017, 7:33 PM
Hi p I'm sorry you're going through this. So awful you don't deserve this.
P you say he tells you he is going to kill you. Really. Mom that is awful. You don't deserve that. Big tough guy threaten his moM he's going to kill her.
Next time he does that call the police and insist on pressing charges. When he's sitting in county lockup he won't feel so tough. Mom protect yourself. All your son cares about is getting high. That's fine. Kick him out and make him support himself.
Your happiness is important. I can tell you a lesson that took me 14 years to learn is the following.
Unconditional love is bullish..
Time goes by quickly and if you don't stop enabling him and putting up with his atrocious behavior
15 years will go by and nothing will get better.
My son is recovering, and only
because I got tough. Yes I'll say it again, unconditional love is BS
Oh there may be people who disagree, but I could care less

Posted by: NyToFlorida May 27, 2017, 6:26 PM
I am glad I found this website to post to. we really dont have anyone to talk to - just to express feelings... thanks to everyone for sharing. I have talked a little to friends and relatives in the past, but sometimes feel like I said too much. my daughters dont want to hear it. and my husband gets angry, so its best not to say anything. I was just thinking that the past is sad bc of their actions and outcomes and what could have been. and the future is sad bc we know our addict's life might not change much, ever. yet we still have the flag of Hope in our pocket - ready to wave as needed! I want to share that even thou my son is home and working, he isnt cured. still the same-ish behavior..... so I still need to keep reassessing my actions and reactions. how to be in his life for support (not financial support-which is his biggest problem) and also be out of his life enough for him to become independent. I think lack of independence might be a common denominator. in an innate sense. I read some where that a characteristic of addiction is a lack of taking care of oneself. allowing oneself to be dependent on others, going with what others want. not having a voice. even down to not able to feed or clothe oneself, putting others wants before your own.

hey parenting - at times in the past when arguing w my son about -- his behavior -- he would lash out to me that "you (mom and dad) are boring and have no friends and your (mom and dad) are miserable." and "other parents" are better and more fun... Oh, because we tried to set boundaries and plan ahead - we were "difficult" to deal with. when we asked questions about whatever he was doing and implied that something didnt make sense, we were "crazy".

lol - we are the most sane, reasonable people I know! and so are our friends!

the problem is that they are surrounded by dysfunctional people - they think that is normal!

my kids grew up not seeing the hard work it takes to cover all the bases of dealing w day to day life - they just saw the end result - kitchen stocked w food, cars always working, clothes in the closets, doing fun things on the weekends - for them!

we made it look too easy! If only we all could have a "do over"! but we cant - so we try to rationalize the past and make a better future for ourselves.

Posted by: Parenting May 27, 2017, 10:05 PM
So true! It is so nice to have a place to share feelings and have people who understand. I think Moms go through something different. Maybe a different struggle that is hard to understand.

My son says the same thing! I am always surprised on this board that they all say such similar things!! And, from all over the place.

It is a process to let go. But, it helps so much to have support. I have not told anyone some of the things my son has said. I have thought a lot about all the comments on here today. You have helped me see how wrong his behavior is. In the beginning it left me so bewildered that I put up with things---I guess because I was so confused. Now, I am not confused. I understand a little what he has placed himself him. And, so right, he is surrounded by people that are very dysfunctional.

I made the same mistake. Working very hard but not making him. I totally understand where you are coming from.

Anyway, we had a family picnic today. The first one he has not shown up for. I strongly kept pushing away the sad feeling of not having him there with all the cousins. I kept reminding myself that he thrives on manipulating my sadness and compassion. I had a GREAT day. I really did. Struggling a little tonight, but doing okay.


Posted by: Parenting May 31, 2017, 11:55 PM
I guess I am sort of trying to work out some things in my mind.

For some reason, I get the brunt of my son's emotional outburst, even when I have nothing to do with it. This can be so frustrating to me. I guess it is more manipulation. For ex, if something happens and he should be mad at person A (or no one but himself), he will take it out on me.

To be honest, the last few days I am intentionally trying to push him from my mind and life. If he would ever approach me respectfully, I would be there in a heartbeat, but I can't take the open hostility any more. Is it bad to say I am so much happier???

Something that bothers me and I have been reading tonight old posts on this-when he seems to legitimately think I am withholding something he deserves. He seems to really believe this. For example, two of his cousins and a friend have purchased cars-beater cars but they bought them with their own money. He has turned this around that they were able to save because their parents love them/support them more than we do, or some such reasoning. I feel like it is so hard not to be manipulated on this. He will make arguments that seems almost sensible until you add in the fact that he avoided some responsibility or that he "lost" something because he called me names or was aggressive. OR, that he had the same opportunity, but decided to blow his money rather than save it...

I will give his brother money for things sometimes, but he is younger and also is very respectful. Up until last year, I treated them both equally. I feel like my son almost makes it impossible to help him. I will sometimes be ready to give him money for a sandwich or something small...and he will say the most hateful things to me because he wants more money or something isn't right. So, I won't give him anything. How can I give someone something when they're being abusive? I really feel like it is impossible for him to be respectful to me right now. He will even admit that he can't do it. ?

Anyway, just talking to myself, really. I have backed way off and feel like to save my sanity I have to block him from my mind. Every once in awhile the guilt creeps in...or, worry that I am pushing him to this lifestyle by not giving money. He threatens that he will have to do "whatever it takes" since I won't help him with money. I don't even know what he means, really. Or, by taking care of myself, I am pushing him towards these people. But, I know that is not logical thinking.

Wow, doing a great job of pushing this out of my life, eh? :)

Posted by: Mandm June 1, 2017, 8:53 AM
Hi P, Your right about how they all say the same things and all have the same excuses. I've noticed that too. But like me you have got used to the same old same old and can't buy their excuses anymore. Your doing exactly what I would do in the same situation. Give him nothing. Remember the way he is living his life, he chose this! Not you! I see where you said he tends to aim everything at you. That's how it is with my daughter. I think the one they think is the easiest to get things from is the one they'll pick on and try to hurt the most. It's very hurtful too! Most of my daughter's anger is aimed at me. When my daughter was younger and living with me I felt happy when she would can leave for days at a time. It meant they'd be no arguments and the house would be so peaceful without all her drama in it. So I get it! I've been there too. You just have to do what your doing and ride the waves. His life will get better when he decides to live it the right way without drugs! Hang in there P. Mary🌻

Posted by: duchesschama June 1, 2017, 5:09 PM

My son has always done the same things and said the same things. I swear they take an online course in what addicts should say and do! He just refused to even be reasonable and there is no talking to him anymore. His job (short lived as usual) at a wrecking company accused him of stealing copper and he probably did because all of a sudden he came up with money to pay three late payments on his car title loan. He claims it was the grandson of the owner that stole the copper. Well now he is out of a job again!

He text me that he was washing up in a gas station bathroom and he was ticketed for trespassing????? Then he text that he has no money, no gas, no food , and no family that cares and I am a cold hearted- bitc---and uncaring.

Well, I recognize this as the S.O.S I have heard for years and I know that money won't help him get better ,but yet I still have a hard time not worrying about him and waiting for the call that he is arrested for something or dead. I try very hard to block it out and to keep busy and to move on because I know these are his bad choices, but it still hurts.

I feel like there will never be any relief from this and from the drama and sadness of his life.
Then to top it off after a "feeling sad" day my 83 y/o husband decided to put the car in the garage and said his foot slipped off the pedal and he drove through the garage wall into my 15 y/o sons bedroom closet. He wasn't hurt ,it will be an expensive repair.

It seems like it is always something and I really would like to go live on an island somewhere--lol!!!

Posted by: BugginMe June 2, 2017, 11:17 AM
I know you are limiting communication with your son, but he may not be aware that there are homeless day shelters in some areas that provide meals, laundry, free clothing, and showers. Sometimes doctors and counselors. I believe they are usually run by churches. You could probably Google homeless shelters or homeless day centers (something like that) and find out where there is one near your son. He could actually get to the location since he has a car. That would be of great benefit to him. I don't believe it is enabling to supply them with helpful information. These are different from homeless shelters. They don't allow them to stay but do provide many services to the homeless during the daytime hours and sometimes only on specific days.

Posted by: Mandm June 4, 2017, 9:41 PM
Hi P. Just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you and hoping your doing okay. Mary 🌻

Posted by: BugginMe June 5, 2017, 8:56 AM
Parenting, Our children are all master manipulators with a feeling of entitlement. I wonder if being self-centered with no thought for consequences caused them to use drugs in the first place or if their drug use just makes them selfish. It may be they are just spoiled children that never grew up. Poor me and give me this or that. Either way, their hurtful words and blaming is hard to take sometimes. Be strong and try to remember that not all your son says is true. I believed much of what mine said and took many of his comments to heart, when it was all just a bunch of BS he was using to make me feel bad and get what he wanted.

Posted by: Parenting June 5, 2017, 3:52 PM
Thank you, everyone, for the support.

I walked last night, looked at the sky and said, "I have absolutely no answers and no clue what to do". : )

I have been reading all the other new posts and, again, shocked how similar the stories are. I really have no idea what is going on with my son. I wonder if he was not using, if he would have such mental health issues.

I've drawn a line that I will help him in a healthy way and talk to him if he is polite..but, if neither things is true, I will not talk to him.

He is SO manipulative it is hard to tell what is going on. The other day, he said he wanted to get a present for someone. I gave him a small amount of money. I found out it was a lie. I asked for the money back....of course, it is gone.

So right this lifestyle he is living is exhausting. And, I see no end. So, I am trying hard to live my life and move on. I cannot tell you the nights I thought he as dead, only to get ahold of him and him tell me off and call me names. hard not to "help them", but I know it is not good for them. On another thread, I read lollee mentioned--- giving money for cell phone so he can call and ask for money. I laughed out loud. So true.

When I was 19, I went into some serious, deep counseling and came out much better. I did it on my own because I wanted to. I hope someday he does the same.

Wishing you all peace.