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Message Board > Suboxone > Methadone To Suboxone "the In-between Period"

Posted by: Chels September 28, 2010, 1:23 PM
I began methadone detox about 2 weeks ago. My starting point was 70mg and i'm at 40mg at this point. My question for people out there, is after my last dose (5mg) how long will i have to wait beofre starting suboxone? I got my levels done about 4 monthes ago and my methadone level was low then..Hoping someone can give me a little insight.

Posted by: Cecily1019 September 30, 2010, 7:17 AM
Hi chels, the protocol for switching these days goes something like this...the patient should taper down to below 40mg/daily methadone, and then wait approximately 48-72 hours after the last dose of methadone to be inducted on suboxone. Given that you are planning to taper quite a bit lower than that to 5mg, I would think you'd not have too much trouble making the switch. It is worth noting that even though it is generally suggested that you should wait a couple days before making the switch from methadone, you *can* take short-acting opiates like oxycodone or hydrocodone up to 12 hours prior to (i.e. the night before) your first dose of sub. If you are very uncomfortable for the 48-72 hours prior to starting sub, and if you have a compassionate doctor, you can be scripted a 2 day course of short-acting opiates. That's a pretty big if, but if you're worried about the transition time, you might try to be prepared.

As far as what to expect, like I said you should generally be OK with what you're planning to do, except perhaps for the day or two after your last dose of methadone (I doubt 5mg would keep you out of withdrawal for a full 24 hours anyway, much less a full 48-72). That said, everyone is different and the switch from methadone to suboxone, for whatever reason, is just tricky. Everyone reacts a little differently. I've heard of people switching from well over the recommended dose of methadone to suboxone after only a day or two and being fine. Then again, there are those who just can't make the switch successfully no matter how low they taper down their methadone dosage.

If you're not a long-term methadone patient, I think you'll do well on sub. Some longer-term MMT patients however do experience substantial discomfort as suboxone patients. I've heard several people describe an anxiety, antsiness, racing thoughts, etc. syndrome after making the switch that doesn't seem to respond to time or dose adjustments very much. They are different drugs, though they do similar things for opiate-addicted people--both medications bind only partially to receptors allowing for the brain's natural endorphin system to resume functioning, and thus allowing for stabilized dosage over long periods, lack of euphoria in stabilized patients, and generally erasing addiction-related behavioral symptoms in stabilized patients.

It sounds like you're planning to use sub short-term to taper and that's your decision, but while I'm at it, you should know that suboxone, like methadone, generally only works to treat addiction for as long as the medication is continued. Treatment outcomes are not much better for short-term detox using suboxone than they are for cold turkey cessation. Which is to say, the odds are very long indeed that you will find long-term success in a short-term detox. Many doctors nonetheless continue to script suboxone insisting that shorter is better, and so forth. The reality is, though, that you're not improving your chances of success really at all by going that route.

Evidence-based treatment, or the disease model of addiction treatment (as opposed to dogma-based treatment philosophy) as yet is still not standard in the treatment community, and many doctors, even those who prescribe and practice according to a medical model, still believe in their hearts that overcoming opiate addiction is about will-power and spiritual transformation rather than effectively treating a disease of brain chemistry. It is worth any opiate-addicted individual giving this question some serious thought and educating themselves about their disease, its known causes, treatments, outcomes, etc. no matter what it is you personally believe to be the best course of action.

Posted by: Chels September 30, 2010, 5:19 PM
Hi Cicily,
Thanks so much for the insight. That answered basically all of the things i've been questioning. I'm supposed to get my prescrition for the subs on the 16th.. whenever i get them filled is up to me i suppose. I just wanted to be safe because i've heard a couple different stories, (which you can't always rely on heresay as we all know) about people starting the subs too soon, unknowingly still having some methadone left in thier system and then getting deathly sick because of the combo. That is what worries me. if i were to take the short-acting opiates in between, would they really even help with the withdrawl if there is a trace of methadone in my system. I mean i guess i would know that its out of my system if they did effect me right? I've also heard that soaking in hot baths will help to get it out, also charcoal pills? more hearsay lol. ahh so much to think about. I'm really trying to keep a positive attitude but i also have some worries. Im halfway through the detox so thats something keep in mind and be happy about. as of today i'm at 35mg =)

Posted by: Cecily1019 October 3, 2010, 6:51 AM
If you're all the way down to 5mg when you taper off to make the switch, then yeah, short-acting pain pills should have some impact. Methadone is a little different than sub in that other opioid medications can get through and offer some relief, even if you still have some methadone in your system, which you will for several days after cessation; that is simply the nature of the drug. Now, if you're on a dose of 80 or so mg of methadone or more, other opioids are not going to do much for you no matter how much you take (although they can still work as pain relief in high enough doses, but that's another question).

I don't know what your tolerance is/was to drugs like hydrocodone or oxycodone, but it's possible that it might take a little *more* of either of those meds than what you needed in the past to keep you comfortable. Methadone is a powerful narcotic, even in low doses. You are already on a very low dosage, though, and are going even lower, so...who knows? But you don't have to have the methadone completely out of your system for other opioids to have some effect, nor should you need to wait more than 72 hours to start suboxone.

If you are very worried about it, go with the max of 72 hours between your last dose of methadone and first dose of sub, and try to have a plan in place to deal with some discomfort for those 2 days without either the very least clear your schedule and be prepared to take it easy. And, keep in mind that you may not experience much discomfort at all in between. Methadone stays in your system for a long time. Keep yourself hydrated, take it easy, and see how it goes.

I wish I could guarantee you that everything will go perfectly smoothly and you will have a flawless transition, but as I noted above, it's just kind of a tricky thing and everyone is different. BUT, you are doing everything right in terms of giving yourself the best chances of success here:

1. Give it 48 to 72 hours between your last dose of methadone and first dose of sub.
2. Make the switch only after tapering down to 40 mg or less daily methadone.

Those are the two main things, and most if not all of the truly awful stories you've heard about this will have involved failing to take one or both of those key precautions.

It also would be great to have a good relationship with a knowledgeable, competent, and compassionate doctor throughout the process and to discuss this issue with him/her beforehand, although I realize that may be more the exception than the rule. Still, find out what, if anything, s/he recommends for you to do or is willing to do to help you. Not all sub doctors know much about methadone and making this switch, unfortunately, so keep that in mind, but it can't hurt to talk about it.

Good luck, just stick with your plan as long as it keeps going well, and remember you can slow down if necessary and give yourself time to make adjustments or re-evaluate. Get as much reassurance as you need from your practitioners. It is their job to help you through this. I think you'll be fine.

Posted by: Laur July 20, 2011, 6:57 PM
Hi! I have been on Methadone mat for 8 years now,I am 35 female down too 30 mil and stable on that for 3 of the years. I have also been clean from ALL other drugs for these 8 years and have taken my recovery seriously, have a job, own a home a car.
Just recently my clinic has the SubOXNE program. I am going too make the switch in a week or so and am scared too death of the 3 days cold turkey in between. I am on the 30 mil and Doc said 30 is what was required. I need advice, should I go into a 3-4 day detox program before? Or Will I be OK home and detoxing cold for 3 days? Will the Doc prescribe clonidine (blood pressure med that helps with withdrawal) and trazdone? Should I ask? I am scared crapless and need advice. Thanks so much.

Posted by: jesse October 27, 2012, 11:37 AM
Clonodine does not help with withdrawals, it just keeps your blood pressure under control because WD raises BP, and it makes for less of a risk of cardiac episodes. Trazadone is an ssri and people have very different reactions to it. I would suggest starting with half of the trazadone dose at first to see how you like it. It's not much but it's better than nothing. If you can, ask your dr. for baclofen, it's a very mild muscle relaxer with little abuse potential but is particularly useful for opioid withdrawal.

Posted by: benny theroux July 19, 2013, 10:08 PM
I'm using a dictaphone so if there's a few spelling errors arm it's the phone translation are about day 7 for me I take it down to 25 milligrams of methadone and then I used box see about mum 160 milligram oxycotton for 2 days arm and then so would it be about 72 hours between my last message tone does and my face a box and o's 12 hours fro 12 hours from my last of the coast to my suboxin does arm with my first ghost of socks and I felt pretty confident harm I basically just got pretty advocated armj

Posted by: Simon A August 15, 2013, 1:33 AM
For anyone interested, here's a slightly different view on time-frames.
I'm making the switch today. I'm taking sub in about 5 hours. I took my last dose of methadone yesterday, but it was half my stabilized dose of 50mg; 25mg (used my calculator). My doctor is an expert on pain, opiates, addiction, etc. One of only two authorized prescribers (sic?) outside the central system in my city of 1.5million, and he has/keeps about 100 patients at a time (practices out in the sticks... or the front of the sticks at least). He says everyone is different, and that the 48 hours is precaution. Some people still get sick after 4-5 days, but most are absolutely fine after 24 hours. For nearly all of his patients who make the switch he recommends 24 hours, but they can decide. He just says wait til you get a little uncomfortable, and you're home free. Some have been fine after 12 hours, I didn't believe him, but he assures me. He wouldn't have recommended 24 hours without watching how I am at certain times after my doses though. If you know your patients well, you can be more liberal. That's the theory... doing the system flood option for Sub (32mg), instead of slowly increasing from low doses.

Let's see what happens... I don't expect a hell of a lot, then again, maybe it'll just be a lot of hell. I know the drill, but that makes it no easier... and it's no consolation.

Posted by: andrew November 20, 2013, 3:40 PM
hi my name is andrew and im 27 years old ive been on metadone for about 7 years now i recently went from 130mgs down to 70mgs in the past few months. the past few days ive been trying to switch to suboxanne so on sat i dosed 70mgs then sunday took half sub strip and felt just fine then monday couldnt find subs so i went to the clinic and dosed then tuesday i took a whole sub strip and omg i went into instant withdrawls!!! i felt like i was gunna die and had to fly to the clinic and dose now im not sick but im not well my body is confused and i dont know what to do for tomrow cuz i work and go to school and dont have time to sit home sick please help me sumone??

Posted by: josh November 27, 2013, 1:03 PM

I too was on 85mg of methadone for a year, I am also your age by the way, now I know you said you got down to 70mg but there is no difference between our dosages when were talking making the switch.

Now first off, suboxone will work the same as subutex, the naloxone is only there for opiate addicted people to make them extremely sick and thrown into intense withdrawal if trying to use it I.V. but it will also cause an opiate addicted body to go into precipitated withdrawals when taken by mouth also. WHY? well the chemical that attache's to your receptors(buprenorphine aka suboxone or subutex) is what will make you feel better when in withdrawal, but if taken while on methadone or any other opiate, you will get an intense withdrawal, that last from half a day to 3 since we were both on the same dosage about of done this is what ya do.

Take your done........Tell the clinic thanks but no thanks..........That is of course assuming you went to a doctor and have a script of subutex or suboxone in hand, if not do not quit. just go down slowly...anyway continued.......After your last dose of methadone, being at 70mg you will not be sick for at least 4 days, I was able to last 6 before I would crawl back to the methadone clinic, I did that do to financial reasons, anyway, the point is, you must wait until you truly are really sick from not having your methadone, and no matter how sick you get, you must wait 48 hours that 48 hours is all i waited and that was a big mistake, I wanted to see how bad Precipitated withdrawals was gonna be, well call me crazy but i figured, im gonna be sick for a week or i can take 2mg of subutex and be extremely sick for hours or 3 days, so u suffer more but for less time, so i ended up having precipitated withdrawal, which by the way is what you experienced.......i had it for about a day, i would describe it as, the very peak of withdrawal....when you just wanna jump outta your body....but still, bearable....mind set is must know your gonna get through after the serious effects went away, i took more bupe hoping it woulnt happen again and it did not,,,,now i am taking 4mg twice a day, and im on day 4 off of methadone and i feel almost 100 percent....everyone says it takes a week to two weeks on suboxone to feel normal.... SO the most important lesson i learned...........Precipitated withdrawals are real, they suck, but for me they were not as bad as other people experienced, It felt to me just like an immediate peak of withdrawal, so instead of slowly climbing the ladder of agony while withdrawalin until you hit that peak on day 3 with nothing, you get there in about an hour...and for some sooner............SO TOO AVOID THAT NOT SO GOOD ORDEAL , and not too mention, you may hurt your self, try not to do what i did,,,,,

SO TAKE YOUR METHADONE,,,,,,last dose,,,,,,,sit at home or go about your regular business......when you start to feel sick, check how many hours its been since your last want to hit that magic 72 hour mark........or longer if your not feeling bad.....keep on living life until you can no longer take it anymore, if you are close to 72 hours , take 2mg of bupe,,,,,,wait and see if you feel worse or better,,,it will take a couple hours to notice how you feel, if you feel better take another 2mg, and your good,,keep that up for the amount of time you need, then taper from the suboxone to......nothing.....clean....or stay on it..but if you do ...warning.......the withdrawals are as bad as methadone I hear....but only if you on high if your going long term, stay at the lowest possible dose like a milligram or two a day tops.......and then ween from there,,so yo will be eating tiny crumbs. very hard to judge but do your best...... GOOD LUCK.....HOPE YOUR NOT SCARED AWAY FROM THE SUBUTEX.....just dont do what you did last time........make sure you long as you can , make sure your on like day 4 off of methadone...and your so sick......then take the subutex or suboxone.......if you dont suffer for a few days,,,you will suffer precipitated withdrawal which can be horrible or not so bad..........its almost like rapid detox while being awake,,,,so yes its dangerous,,,but many have done it.........but after doing it....i would suggest just waiting it out man, suffer for five days then take your subs,,,,,,,,,,,,you can do it..i did.....oh and by the way,,,i still feel a bit lazy.......the energy you got from your methadone dose, you wont get unless you wait until your really sick,,,,,the sicker and longer you go without methadone the better the prize is you know.....if you wait long enough, you may get the best and even a quite euphoric sense of relief......but for that you would have to be very strong....and wait....a week....with no methadone.....sweating....s*** sleep......all that....but just think the more you suffer....the more sweet the suboxone will mind...excuse it...but its true...anyway.....yeah...just long as you can...all the doctors told me ...and everything I read said,,,it was near impossible to switch from done to subs in 4 days....well I was on 85mg for a year,,,and the last day i dosed i doubled up to 160mg then 48 hours later took the subs and had pw,,,,that precipitated choose..............

Posted by: Nablyudala May 23, 2014, 7:02 AM
It’s really great posts.

Posted by: Megan June 19, 2014, 3:59 AM
Hey, I think it is always good to have several different views on this as we are all different. I have been a patient of pain meds for 13 years. Was on A LOT of Rx medications in the beginning. Literally, 2 50 durageesic patches one on each arm a 24 hr morphine pill (cannot remember the mg but I want to say like 30) 60 mg of oxycontin and 600 mcg fentanyl lozenges. I also abused what I had. So you can count that and probably double it. It was awful. I never had been told about the withdrawls if you stopped taking any of these. An odd thing to leave out in my opinion but given this doctor put me on ALL OF THAT I cannot say it was odd that he left out what would happen if I stopped. He was that doctor that had the RX fentanyl clock on his wall and his RX pads were for some other narcotic/opiate medication. Anyhow, Cold turkey off all of the is the ABSOLUTE WORST I HAVE EVER FELT WHILE DETOXING. Good reason for it I guess :) But when I went into a detox (it was like the hilton of detox, only 8 rooms just like an acute care hospital, well it was a hospital with a detox floor) I had my own flat screen and everything. Not that I cared TV was not my need at the time. But the base rule from going off of anything onto subos was 48 hours. There was a kid in the room next to me who begged so badly because he was so sick (heroin) that they finally gave in and he kicked the walls screaming the entire night. 3 days later we saw him and he was okay but had been really sick by getting the suboxone early. I know I was given it after 48 and was fine. Probably would have been okay at 36 if I had to guess. But I was also only on oxy at the time. Methadone stays in your system about 2 days longer than other narcotics/opiates. This may make things different. So just be sure. However I know that they would have given a methadone detox patient the subo after 48 hours as well. Whether someone got sick is another story I guess. What they are more or less looking for are physical withdrawl symptoms. If you are not experiencing the regular symptoms of withdrawl and good enough too, then you very well could get sick. Wait the 2 days. It is well worth not getting sick. Might even be worth waiting 2 and a half days etc. The longer the better at least you know you have a reprieve when you take it. Sorry for the long a** story, but wanted to share. Narcs opiotes are tricky. Nobody should ever be put on them if not absolutely necessary, they destroy so many lives. I did not ever need to be on the amount I was on and it destroyed who I was. Hope this information can be useful to someone who is just not sure about any of it. The first answer to this post was the best and most accurate.

Posted by: angela July 19, 2014, 3:09 PM
Its bn 24 hours since my last dose and I feel like crap I'm going through withdrawls it sucks can I take suboxone ?

Posted by: karen August 1, 2014, 6:41 PM
I was wondering if you ended up o. k after 48 hrs or did you have those pre cip withdrawals?

Posted by: Danielle August 6, 2014, 6:48 AM
I am currently at the 48 hour mark and I do not know what to do. My withdrawals aren't too bad but I'm super anxious. I took my last dose of methadone (30mgs) exactly 48 hours ago and already have my script for suboxone but am so scared of the precipitated withdrawals that I am battling myself. I went to the doctor yesterday and they did a drug screen on me (exactly 24 hrs after my last methadone dose) and with their not such great quality drug test he said the methadone didn't even show in my system and that I could take the subs right then. I knew I'd go into precipitated withdrawals so I have been waiting but I just don't know if my sanity will last much longer. So I figured id ask this question. Anyone that is around 110 pounds (which apparently makes a difference) gone through this and have any advice?

Posted by: charles August 13, 2014, 8:40 AM
ok so i im quiting methadone clinic i was at 45 now i no its crazy owell ive only been there 5 months what can i do to make it easyer to come off i got a few suboxone pills what ekse please let me no thank

Posted by: Sam August 30, 2014, 8:11 AM
Hi guys,
I'm totally newto this thread, but thought I'd ask for some advice. I'm switching from methadone to suboxone, and am now at 72 hours since my last dose of methadone which was 30mg. I've been using tramadol and Xanax at night to ease the wd's. So here's my dilemma: my doc said to wait 72 hours to start the sub, which is now...but I've not gotten very sick yet. I've definitely felt it, don't get me wrong...chills, sweating, stuffy nose. But that's it. No nausea, diarrhea, or anything else associated with moderate to sever wd's. Is this because of the tramadol/Xanax? I'm terrified of experiencing precipitated wd's but also my sic and most sites I've read say that 72 hours is more than enough time between a 30mg dose of methadone and beginning suboxone. Can anyone offer some advice here? If in fact, I can start now, I'd like to so I can abandon the tramadol/Xanax...but I also feel like I should have been feeling sicker than I do. Granted--this tram/Xanax combo has really helped make the transition very easy, but I also feel like it has fooled me a little. Because now that I'm at my awaited time period, I'm not feeling sick. Help, anyone??

Posted by: Goran August 30, 2014, 5:44 PM
Sam,I am hoping that you still waiting! I waited for 80 hours before sub,I was on 25mg for 10 years,and it was not enough.5 minutes after I took sub I knew,pw,and have very bad experience.Even before I took it I somehow Know its to early,because I could have gone another 12 hours without meth,for sure!!! Wait as long as you can,you really must start to suffer before you take sub.Good luck,and write how it was!

Posted by: jenna September 16, 2014, 11:02 AM
I have a few questions. . Seems all the info I read has to do with people switching from methadone at high mgs. I've been at 3 mgs for weeks..during which was especially at night going thru mild wd. Symptoms.. cramps, shaking hands, anxiety. .the usual but nothing I couldn't handle I took my last dose of 3 mgs of methadone 48 hours ago ..I have my 1st appt. With a sub Dr today I feel awful..sliggish..chills..fever.but nothing like I hear I should or did expect
Would they make me wait to take my 1st dose of subs until I'm in full blown wd? And im.still worries about the precipitated wd. If they're is still methadone in my system.

Posted by: heather September 30, 2014, 3:55 PM
I went 24 hrs w/o my 30mg of methadone went back to the clinic got 4mg of generic bupenorphrene. It does not contain noxalone, the thing that precipitates withdrawal. Was OK yesterday, better today. 85% everyones different. I plan on being on for 10 days, then done.....and Thats me. I go to a methadone clinic and doc deals with nothing but is....Ty heather n Williams find me on Facebook to keep track

Posted by: ant941 October 1, 2014, 6:06 PM
Hey every one I've been doing about one gram of "H" every day I got some strips and subs but a few months ago I waited like 12 hours after my last use and took half of strip and let me tell you it felt like death. Went straight into pw. I'm in a position where I got two kids to take care of so waiting the full two days is really hard.Need some advice on what to do and if anyone has been in my situation before thanks.

Posted by: Chris October 7, 2014, 5:30 PM
I've been through this twice and as long as you are under 40mg of dones and your in detox you can take your subs! Hint in wd take it!

Posted by: Guest October 18, 2014, 9:40 PM

Posted by: vickie October 27, 2014, 3:18 PM
hi! i was on methadone for 4yrs, and i just transitioned to suboxene. i was on 120mgs of methadone. i had to come all the way down to 30mgs before they would transition me to suboxen. when i got to 30mgs the dr made me wait 4 days before he could switch me. u cant have any methadone in your system!!! if u do when u take the suboxene it will throw u into the worst state of withdraws youve ever seen!!! beleive me make sure u have no methadone in your system..

Posted by: Brandi November 2, 2014, 11:56 PM
Thank you so much for all the info. I am on 129 mg of methadone and am sick of going to clinic while my husband took suboxone route when we quit heroin. He goes to doc once a month, I just lost my weekly due to valium in my system, I am sick of being observered peeing and want to go on suboxone. I will wait till after holidays and start taper,thank god for your advise. i was su con fused. but what is precipitated withdrawl and can you avoid it by taking subutex? if you take subutex do you have to come down to 30 mg?

Posted by: jenna November 9, 2014, 10:20 PM
Hi. I went on methadone in jan. Started at 25 and went to 45 while pregnant. Now i had my baby ive weened from 45 to 25 going down 5 every two weeks. I am about to start the go down one mg every three days but decided on just doing a couple subs and be done so do like a quarter or less at a time. I have been.on the 25mg for 3 weeks tomorrow. Any suggestions. Can i take the sub after 48 hrs.

Posted by: questionsneedanswers November 10, 2014, 2:29 PM
Hi... a couple of years ago i went to zero from about 90 mg of Methadone. I did it slow and it took a year. My advice is to wait until you get to 1mg wait three or 4 days then stop. You'll be fine. Don't rush it. Then get on Natrexone or vivitrol for the blocking of cravings it's better to have no opiate in your system in the long run and you'll never have to do this again. Good luck and stay strong.

Posted by: questionsneedanswers November 10, 2014, 2:31 PM
I went on the clinic again because my docs office was shut down and i was on Natrexone. I was scared of relapsing. I haven't been to the clinic since Friday. Last dose was 40mg. Can i take the Suboxone now? Sorry for the spelling errors I'm not feeling well and need help.

Posted by: Papa Bear November 10, 2014, 4:11 PM
Are you attending Narcotics Anonymous meetings?

There are lots of folks there who have been right where you are and can help.

Look them up in your local phone book ... give them a call.

All the best.

Bob R

Posted by: questionsneedanswers November 15, 2014, 1:16 AM
A week ago today I was petrified because I knew that I wasn't going to the clinic in the morning. I haven't been back since and I feel good. I don't know if it was my will power but I did go down to 1 mg and then zero in 2009. I went back in the clinic and I couldn't take the sweating, not being able to travel, going and being treated in a different way, but the physical and emotional issues from detoxing every 11 days 1mg then 8 days down 1mg..
. I hated the sweating the chills the weight gain every thing about the clinic and methadone I started to hate.

Last Saturday I work up, made sure I ate and drank liquids in case I wasn't able to the next day. But I slept. I DIDNT SWEAT. I DIDNT HAVE CHILLS! I WAS PHYSICALLY WEAK
And had a headache and by Monday I was ok. Now I am dealing with the insomnia. No amount of melatonin helps!! But I did it. It has to be something that a person really wants or it was a miracle for me. ...That was what my friend told me. :-) I just can't sleep.

Posted by: Mr Opilova November 30, 2014, 8:18 PM

Posted by: scott February 5, 2015, 11:22 AM
Whatever the hell you do nevvvvveeeerrrr mix methadone and suboxone!!!!!!!!!!!! Trust me you would rather shoot yourself

Posted by: Thomas March 22, 2015, 12:32 PM
Hey this is Thomas, I was on sub for about six years but then I lost my insurance and switched methadone without getting sick. I missed my Saturday clinic and got my hands on a sub and holy crap it was the was this I ever did for about 24 hours it was hell I woke up on Sunday morning and took half of a sub. That will be 48 hours after my lost dose of methadone. I'm about 150 pounds with a high metabolism and not my body fat so we will see how it goes. Just make sure you wait because precipitated withdrawals sucks.

Posted by: erica April 17, 2015, 2:51 PM
Hi my name is erica. I'm now 25 year old 5'5 and 140lbs. I've been a methadone patient for 5 years, I was on 175mgs for the first 4 years and within the last year I've come down to 60mgs. About 3 weeks ago I was put on a 30 day taper coming down 2mgs a day and as of Wednesday at 9am I took my last dose of 10mgs. I have four 8mg suboxone strips and I was wondering how long I should wait to start taking it. I plan on cutting them into 4ths and only taking 2 mgs at a time. As of yesterday and today I've been taking short term acting opiates because I've heard you need to wait 72 hours before making the switch from methadone to suboxone. So will I be OK to take the suboxone 72 hours after my last dose of methadone and if I wait 24 hours after taking the last of my short term opiate. That would put me starting the suboxonend at 2on on saturday because I took a short acting opiate at 2pm today (friday).

Posted by: Dave June 6, 2015, 8:08 PM
Interesting thread. I was on methadone for five or six years before switching to suboxone. (This was back in 2003 when it first came out.) The methadone clinic gave me the suboxone a day after my last methadone dose. I wasn't on a high methadone dose, but the switch over to Sub was not pleasant. For three or four days I didn't feel right in the head... I stayed in bed most of the time even though I wasn't sleeping much. I wish I had been told to wait a few days before taking it. Not sure what happened, I guess it was the naltrexone reacting with the methadone.

Years ago when I kicked heroin the first time, I was on day three or four of the kick, starting to feel somewhat normal again. My doctor gave me this huge naltrexone pill and an hour later I felt weird as s***... It lasted for a week or so. I couldn't think right, I felt like there was a rock lodged in my brain. So unpleasant. I didn't take naltrexone again until years later when I switched from Methadone to Suboxone. I don't want to scare anyone, because switching to suboxone has been great... I'm down to 1mg a day and I feel good. I think part of the problem was the fact that I was very sensitive to naltrexone. I don't know why my clinic didn't start me out on Subutex (which has no naltrexone). You're suppose to start on that so you don't have problems switching over. I don't think they even make the subutex anymore because people were abusing it... which is kind of bulls***, people abuse everything.

Posted by: iamwithyou June 9, 2015, 4:49 AM
I can only use my experience and everyone is different BUT after 20 years of heroin , methadone addiction the easiest and most comfortable way i got HUGE tolerance to opiates.

Use heroin 3am .25 gram (depends on strength mine was about 50% ) + 70mls methadone

use heroin 7am .50 gram

100mls methadone 9am

90 mls 9pm

72 hours later

2mg bupe every 2 hours upto 16mg

adjustment period 2 days but not debilitated , up and about just sneez, odd wretch, runny nose and feeling low...

parecetamol, imodium helps

after 1 week I feel normal easiest detox if there is such a thing... ive done about 20 in many ways and formats and the above you can almost be normal..ish :)

Hope helps..

then taper bupe as required.

Posted by: iamwithyou June 9, 2015, 4:52 AM
above is assuming you are JUST USING not already on methadone or bupe... just if you want to detox easy..

Peace and love to all - listen to the chili pepers aswell

Posted by: amanda July 16, 2015, 12:11 AM
hi my name is amanda and i am taking 170mg methadone daily and was wondering if anyone knows if i wait at least 4 days to switch to the suboxone would I have any trouble? I am very strong i know i can go 3days a week without the methadone but if i wait 4 days will I withdrawal from the methadone if i switch to the suboxone 4 days being my last dose of 170mg please let me asap! thanks.

Posted by: dopeohope July 29, 2015, 7:49 PM
Let me start by saying that i am from a near suburb of Chicago and Heroin is very easy to get as long as you avoid the police, and I used Norcos and oxy for an injury. when i did not have it I went to the H which was much better and stronger and helped my pain a lot but it came with a price"addiction". After 2 years on and a year off and then another 4 years on H I finally got help from this doctor who said he had something i could take and not have any withdrawals from the H and i said great. I never really heard about methadone or did not not what it was so i took it. I got a prescription and went to the pharmacy and started to take it. The doctor said it be easier to get off than H but that was not the case. I spent the next 8 years on methadone. Then 3 months ago i finally said that enough, I was at 50mg when i started and went down about 5mg ever 2 weeks until i was at 30mg then i started to go down about 3mg every week until i was at 20mg. Then when i was at 20mg i stayed there for about a week, until the day before my wife went out of town and then i took 10mg that night and the next day she left for 3 days. I did not take any methadone the next two days, but the 2nd day i was off i took two norcos and it helped me sleep and after 60 hours I took my first suboxone and i waited and hour and i still felt bad so i took another and then one more which i think it was enough. I took 6mg of suboxone the first day the next day I took 4mg in the morning and then the 3rd day the same, then the 4th day i took 2mg along with the next 3 days and then i took 1mg for a day and after that i was fine, i had no extra pain in my body and was able to sleep 4 hours a night for about another 5 days and then after that i was better. I had the most trouble with myself getting off methadone because i was scared and nervous about being sick and really it was not that bad, even the days i took nothing, but the morning i took the suboxone was the worst morning and the suboxone really helps along with Motrin 600mg or 800mg. hope this helps anyone wanting to get off methadone or H. do not take more Suboxojne than what is needed, deal with a little pain. You might be a little sore like you got into a fight or like you just played a game of football the day before, it gets better day by day and to be honest i only felt sore for 2 days after i stop taking the suboxone. I mean it was only in my legs and it felt like i was standing all day on concrete and i dealt with that many of times

Posted by: mr.sir January 12, 2016, 2:25 PM
i was on 60 mgs of mdone a day plus 80 mgs of oxycodone for a severe accident. before that i was on suboxone for a year but due to the severity of my trauma i was forced to take pain killers. i kikd the oxys a week ago and ive been off mdone 3 days but i was ignorant to the facts of dosing down and im anxiousto get back to my subs.i want my life back but i know im n a certain amount of wd but i have neurotin and zanax so i may be fooling myself. i cant take the participated wd. am i cool to get down with my subs 2mg at a time?

Posted by: GreenSage131 January 18, 2016, 12:26 PM
Hello- im 29 years old and ive been on methadone since nov 2007. I started at 40mlgs & went up to 125 by the 2nd year which i remained on 125mlg for about 2 years then slowly tapering down to 40 for another 2 years then slowly again was ready to lower the dose every 3 weeks till i was on 3mlg. 3 only 3. At that point it felt all mental. And it kinda is but the pains i feel now that i should have been feeling this whole time has intensified. Im only 29 not even yet in 2 weeks ill be29 i got on the clinic when I was 20. It seems like just yesterday. But now heres my real situation. - back in april 2014 i found a job. But totaly forgot to rememeber that I still needed my sat and sun dose my job started at 630 am and my clinic didntnopen on Saturdays till 7. Leavung me to pick between my new job or my dose i wasnt fully down to 3 mlg yet i was on about 15. So i chose to skip going to the clinic missinv my doses every weekend. Now ur probably wonder how the hell did i miss my dose and go to work ok with out using in the process. I had muscle relaxers and i also use pot for oain management and for my PTSD and panic attacks. From 2007 to 2014 i never picked up herion or one pill . I was in the right frame of mind. I needed to stay clean for myself because iknew if i didnt itnwas my last chance at but for those 7 years on the methadone i feel as if i got more physically addicted to the methadone. And the fact for 7 years i had to get up everyday at the same time to go recieve my dose becuz they wouodnt give me take home bottles because of my thc use.. basically they dosed me for using pot for 7years. I even fought in meeting to make them lower my dose. At time i started feeling way too over medicated. . Finally after along process of fighting my way down to 3 mlg i had to choose. And one day i decided i was just done. That was in august 2014 i just stopped going without any notice to them. They didnt believe me when i said i was finally done and one day their gonna wonder where i am.
So niw being said its been well over a year since i sopped going to the clinic. But here comes the bad news. My father at the age of 49 years old got sick with dementia and almost died but ended up in a nursing home for 2 years. I had some methadone saved up from my sunday bottles remember one point i was on 125mlg. And being an addict i always planned ahead. When dad got sick i wasnt off the clinic yet. But asa i left the clinic not even 3 months later dad got even sicker. Ending up in the hospital at age 52 with aspiration pneumonia. His lungs filled with fluids and everything he ate went straight to his lungs. Ugh i started using alittle more then i had realize.. specialy becuz it was being offered to me by someone who thought they were helping but was only helping by enabling my old habits. I didnt wanna feel. Finally the day came. I found out i was 12 weeks pregnant right b4 my 28th birthday& my dad starting hospice services. I knew i\we had to make a decision. My bf and i of almost 10years not to mention his brother passed away in 2008 leaving us 3 small kids to raise and take care of. Therebwas barely any room for me left alone one more child in the house. & also We wanted to keep this mirical baby but with him not knowing that i was still using pills and my left over methadone i knew i was destroying my body and the innocent baby made with love growing inside me. I didnt wanna be selfish and i had very strong visions of me havin a miscarriage becuz i could see my father passing away. My father always wanted a grandchild. Now i knw ur thinking im a horrible person and i still feel like i am but i couldnt bring this precious little innocent child into a world that i wasnt even reaady to face. I made the appointment &on my 28th bday this innocent soul became an angle before a child. Amonth later my father died. And i csn now say he has his grandchild he always wanted..Omg im crying. Right now. This is very hard for me. I dont Usualy go blabbing my life story to strangers.
So by the time july came2015 i told my b4 i felt like i was going backwards. He fully supported me and still does i stopped cold turkey & magically i thought i was finally good. Then oct 2015 came. Started using thr left over methi still had. Like itbwas there for emergencies or something. But now the beginning of 2016 something changed inside me. I still love the thought ofngetting high but i never can get high any more. And when i finally did i hated being high. Like who loves drugs but hates being high? Apparently i do. I realized that its just not for me any more.
So i found an old suboxone pill that was my fathers& i cut it into 14 little pieces. I havent touched methadone in a week but i deff dont feel perfect. Im afraid that whhats gonna happen when i run outtabthe suboxone? I have 8 little piece left since there wereba few days i tryed not to take. Am i just messing my sytem up by "self" medicating or dexoting? Its almost my bday and i wanna be completely done but have doubt that will happen b4 my bday.
I guess im asking now how long does it take for someone to detox off suboxone. Im assuming im onky taking abiut 3 or 5 mlg of it right now and every ogher day i take justc a smaller piece then the last time b4. Am i doing this right ontop of smoking pot to help with the pains in my stomach the irritability the leg pains the night sweats the tossing and turning. I need advice. Should i go to a dr & get on an actually prescription or stay away since im doing so well on my own? Hate to get on something else & have myself get addicted mentally to another substance. Im so affriad of going backwards that its actually hard to keep my eyes forward. Pot really helps tho with multiple things.. trying to get on medical for that but thats another subject. My whole life from the age of 11 when i broke my ankle &dr gave me oxycodon for a month or 2 i have had cravings i cant even explain where they come from. Will i ever be able to live opioid free? & how much longer should i continue taking suboxone. Since i only have a few left to begin with...please email me if u have any advice to offer..

*** please do not post personal contact information - the moderators ****

Posted by: BFBJR February 25, 2016, 6:40 PM
I have been reading peoples posts on here and I am impressed with their sincerity but not so much with their accuracy or display of knowledge of the Methadone and Buprenorphine/Suboxone/Subutex. Before giving advice on how to either transition from one to the other or to get off them entirely, I believe a person should have a full complete almost medical knowledge of the drugs involved because they can be deadly if used incorrectly. If I were to write a "thesis" on the two it would be excessively long and people would lose interest before they finished reading it. So here are a few facts. Both can be dangerous, especially Methadone. I have 15+ years experience with it myself being on doses as high as 260Mg./Month. It was always prescribed for me for pain and not for addiction although I am an addict. My drugs of choice are Alcohol and Cocaine also having tried anything that can be put in my body without the use of a needle. I am scarred to death of needles. Methadone is the stronger pain killer, but Buprenorphine has a much stronger mu-opioid receptor affinity that methadone which means it is "stickier" or that it will push other drugs off the mu-opioid sites. All except Naloxone and Naltrexone as far as I am aware. That is why if you take "Bups" while on a high dose of Methadone you will go into severe withdrawal that cannot be stopped by using more Methadone. Methadone has the second highest affinity for the mu-opioid receptors as far as I know. If you take approximately 0.6 mg - 0.8 mg per lb of body weight it will form an effective opiate block meaning that what ever opiate you take will be blocked and you won't get high. Everyone is different however when it comes to this. It is also NOT an effective block for Suboxone as Suboxone has a higher opioid site affinity. The other big difference between the two is that Methadone is a pure agonist and Buprenorphine in an agonist/antagonist similar to the pain medication call Talwin. Buprenorphine fills up more receptors than Methadone yet it does not "tun them on" or make then act as pain blockers. Naloxone and naltrexone both do this almost exclusively, hence their use for over doses. When a drug binds to a receptor and activates it fully (in the case of mu-opioid receptors) it blocks pain as well as repressed breathing and acts very strongly on Dopamine levels in the brain (although Buprenorphine/Naloxone/Naltrexone all effect Dopamine to some degree.) I realize that what I have written does not address anything about the transition or the quiting of any of the medications mentioned, but I believe that it is imperative that a person understand the chemicals with which they are working before undertaking any sort of dose manipulation. The amount of education/class time a Dr. is given on the nuances of opiates and and their effective use and there addiction properties as well as what to do with patients having problems with addiction is a matter of a few hours I believe. ABSOLUTELY not enough training for such an important live saving or taking issue. If you want to make your voice heard in a posotive way for you and others then write letters to Medical Schools requesting that they increase the amount of education that their Med. Students receive on this subject. You can even make it a form letter. Just make sure what you say in the letter in fact checked and correct not to mention sincere and state that it is a matter if life and death for MANY people in the U.S. and around the world. I will post my e-mail address, not my main personal one, but one that I check. This may not be the smartest thing I have ever done, but I know a great deal about this subject and I want to help those who want to be helped, so here goes!

***Please do not post personal contact information. thank you, the moderators***

Please mention something in the subject about Opiate or Withdrawal questions and I hope you don't use this to argue about what I have said or to put me down for my efforts. I DO care and I DO want to help any one who wants help. I do not know it all and will try to find a link for you for any information that you seek that I cannot answer. In Loving Kindness!

Posted by: Papa Bear February 25, 2016, 10:22 PM

"If you want to drink/use that's your business ...
if you want to quit that's AA/NA's business"

It saved my life - it may save yours as well.

All the best.

Bob R

Posted by: Dougiequick March 2, 2016, 4:30 PM
It blows my mind that people can go a couple days without their methadone! I have never had that option in my 10+ years of being on this crap. I start going into actual withdraw symptoms after only about 24 hours max ...any studies that show that with some people?? My metabolism is unusually efficient or something? My own non fact based theory is that maybe my body fails to produce near enough endorphins which is why I had severe malaise prior to even being on anything at all.

I have a script approved and at the pharmacy for pick up, I requested subutex (because of my theory) but I am pretty darn sure what is there is suboxone. I have tapered and I am very much stable at only 10mg mdone... today is the 11th day on 10mg (dropped in one shot from 15!) so far it has been easy enough which I credit to having the luxury of being retired and able to lay down anytime) that I am wondering if I should even bother with the suboxone? The old adage "you can pay me now or you can pay me later...with the "me" being withdraw sickness ...know what I mean? I like the idea of using minimal short acting opiate to get through the worst of it...except I signed a contract contract with the sub doc promising not to...they sure do treat everyone as a junky! Hell if I WANTED to be a junky there is nothing on this earth that could prevent that (other than disease or prison etc) And HOPEFULLY, Lord willing that is, there is NOTHING that is going to prevent me from clearing methadone! Whether i actually WANT to stay cleared of all opioids afterwards? I shall not boast in what I can not know ...I can't really kick too much at the quality of life while on methadone all those years. it was relief for ME personally...but my brain is going and I think the mdone may be responsible. Now FINALLY I am cured of HCV and I am HOPING it was THAT virus that made methadone something I needed and now don't ...though I am left with a much destroyed liver (cirrhosis) I have great hope that heals up by and by and my body somehow returns something like "normal" making endorphins etc

Posted by: Dougiequick March 2, 2016, 9:11 PM
Also I guess I should confess that I used a really unorthodox gimmick in my last huge drop
in a single step. I had failed in my first attempt to drop to 10 mg so this last time I used morning glory seeds which have several amines? amides? of lysergic acid "LSA" it is referred to which produce an LSD like experience. I can not say exactly why. but it pretty much eliminates the withdraw symptoms for some and seems to change my mindset as it "good"? It worked for me. Is it safe? I would NOT say that! I would not recommend that anyone even consider it if there is any mental problems...I do not think it has ever directly killed anyone, however I think there was at least one well documented case of a suicide while on LSA. If someone wants to more about it, check out erowid etc. If the seeds are simply chewed it typically causes major nausea and vomiting but my first medium dose experiment I did not suffer that at all but I am the exception...the second time I did a high dose but used cold water extraction. The experiences were quite different, the second time being euphoric. I should mention that I am an experience user of LSD and the like from my early days even though I have not touched the stuff for probably 30 years before this. I don't plan on it after this either unless I was dying of cancer or something, then I might like to find a place that administers LSD or something ...supposedly make dying a lot more tolerable for some folks. YMMV btw I dont ever want to do anything that makes me ashamed to pray to God while doing it.

Posted by: Jumbo jimbo March 14, 2016, 7:12 AM
This is my personal experience and should be viewed as such, everyone is different

I was taking 10mg of methadone twice a day, I took my last 10mg dose Friday at 5pm

Then I got myself 10 30mg roxi's

Spaced them out the best I could and took my last one Sunday at 5pm

Monday morning at 5am I snorted about one third to one half of a zubsolv pill

Also took a 1mg Xanax and two 30mg adderal --and I feel great, no precipitated withdrawal, as I was in withdrawal enough from no roxi's in 12 hours and the only true worry I had was if I had waited long enough after my last 10mg methadone dose--and for me it seems that the 36 hours with no done and 12 without roxi was long enough to handle my induction dose of a third, or possible just a small half of a zubsolv pill. Not saying these times till work for u--and I have experienced PW before, and trust me it was a hour of hell on earth. These are my experiences and I don't instruct anyone to treat them as gospel --but just saying what worked for me

Posted by: SpookOfTruth March 15, 2016, 1:42 PM
I work in a profession in which your body takes daily damage. Daily physical abuse and coping with the mental stress of "Am I and my partners going to make it home tonight?" 15 years of abuse added injury on top of injury. I know this is about Suboxone, just hang tight for a minute.

As an "Alpha Male" your belief is suck it up, go work out, do whatever you must do to get back in the fight as quickly as possible because others depend on you. Your body can only go through this for so long and before you realize you are reliant on your DR. to give you something to get you through one day at a time before your next script is due.

I was prescribed various pain medications beginning with an ACL replacement, then a surgery to repair a stab wound to the face, and finally a gun shot wound. Those are the majors and don't include minor injuries from pursuits, assaults, training, etc. A stigma exists that people do not function on pain pills, but that's not the case. Some people get addicted to the euphoria, others like myself, live in so much pain that your body normalizes operating on opiates just to keep going. Your mental capacity is not diminished, you're not "high", you become normal operating on opiates. You keep fighting on, telling yourself that your meds are prescribed, that they are necessary evil, and you put others needs before yours. This can only happen for so long before your body completely crashes.

I was on my honeymoon in Curacao and 3 days into trip realized my meds were gone. At that time I was taking Percocet 7.5/325 in the amount of 15 to 20 a day to deal with pain. I spent the next week going through DTs/ Withdrawals in a foreign country. That was my wake up call of "Holy Sh!T" how did we get to this place. I suffered and made it home. I went to the DR and said "No More!" He then prescribed Suboxone to make the transition easier.

I can tell you that while on Suboxone I had no cravings for Opiates. Everything was great! Until...It was time to stop suboxone. There is going to be pain when you stop taking it but 90% is mental and the biggest issue is the insomnia.

I will be 37 in 2 days and I'm on my 7th day of "Cold Turkey" stoppage of Suboxone. I was on 8mg a day for just over a year. During the first 2 days the symptoms everyone knows about are annoying. Days 3-4 with no sleep and feeling like crap, the thought did cross my mind of "I want to die"! That's when I knew that the WTD was mostly mental because I have never had those thoughts. For me absolutely nothing helps to sleep, this is where you have to dig deep and know that if you suffer through the pain and remember it, you should be free. Now everyone is going to be a little different but here is my timeline. I'm 6'^' tall and weigh 220lbs.

Day 1 discomfort no sleep,
Day 2 major restlessness, cramping of major muscles in back and legs
Day 3 all the above, sneezing, yawning, no sleep, and you begin to feel very hopeless.
Day 4 same as day 3
Day 5 the feelings of "crawling out of your skin begin to intensify and anger begins to present itself.
Day 6 begin to feel 50% better but incredibly week.
Day 7 slept of and on for 2 hours but most major symptoms of withdrawal are gone. I can't speak to the insomnia yet, but I can tell you to get your a** out of bed and move. The longer you lay there the worse you feel.

As you may have surmised there are some substances that legally I cannot utilize, my wife is from Seattle and swears THC would help but it is not legal where we live soooo...
Hot Hot showers will be your friend, I took up to 5 a day to help with cramping. I hate drinking water, I'm from the south so sweet tea is drink of choice, but make yourself drink water or something containing electrolytes. I tried Benadryl to sleep and it made it worse. Aspirin and Ibup. to help with pain. Just know it is a mental game. It hurts, it sucks, but you're going to be ok.

My opinion: If you truly want to free yourself from opiates and not relapse, Suboxone is a tool to get you to a good point. If you are reading this it means your in the middle of withdrawal or thinking about stopping Suboxone, remember pain is temporary and the tricks your mind is playing will stop.

Posted by: M in Indiana April 11, 2016, 4:19 AM
Hello everyone. I have been in 90 mg of methadone for about six months. I decided to switch to subutex. I spoke with the dr, and he pretty much let me do things my way. Bad deal! I came down off the methadone at 4 mg per day, to 30 mg, stayed off 24 hrs, then took 8 my subutex. OMG! I thought I was going to die!!!! I went to the er, they gave me catapress, Ativan, and Zofran. That helped a lot, but not completely. The catapress does lower the blood pressure, but it also helps with anxiety and the tremors. If you ever have to experience withdrawal, I highly recommend it. Now, I went back and took 8 mg of sub the following day, thinking I would probably be better. Nope. Not in horrible WD, but still not doing well. So I upped my mg to 12 mg, the following day. Maybe if I flood my sensors with sub, it will help. Meh, not really. Here I am at day four, and I still feel anxious, jittery, and can't sleep. Wth! When does it end, and what can I do? Thank you for any advice. Much appreciated!

Posted by: Heather April 23, 2016, 11:55 AM
I have only been taking methadone for two weeks...just until I could get to my doctor and get my sub back...I got up to 40mg. It was two days ago in the morning and where I'm from they give you the liquid methadone for a long time before they give you the waffers. but yes can I take my suboxone yet? would it hurt me?

Posted by: Steph August 24, 2016, 3:16 PM
I was at the methadone clinic for a year. At 150mgs. So stupid. But that day I took my last dose over 48 hours ago now stupid I listened to the doctor telling me take it 24 hours I went into the worst withdrawal I've ever experienced I went to the emergency room because both arms tangled hurt and I went into cardiac arrest. I can't believe I'm even here now so I'm out of the er with nothing but fluids I feel like crap but nothing compared to that so I'm waiting the full 72hours before I take the sub which is about 10am and it's 3pm now. I'll keep you posted. I'm drinking lots of fluids.

Posted by: glenn September 17, 2016, 11:12 AM
Hey everyone, hopefully someone can help me out with my situation. I been on 140mg of methadone for alittle over a year. I got into a fight at the clinic and they put me on a 30 day detox. I detoxed down to 10 mg and yesterday was my last day. So it's been like 30 hours since my last dose and I feel like dogs***! I got two 8 mg Suboxone an don't know what to do! I used heroine a couple hours ago an it didn't help for long. After like 20 min I went right back to feeling like poop! Question is can I take the Suboxone by tonight and be OK?

Posted by: Caitlin January 27, 2018, 10:37 PM
I am around 120 lbs Danielle and I have gone through this at least 6 times, yet it is somewhat different each time, even though I'm sure you know it only gets worse each withdrawal period as you get older. Anyways, I would wait, just like she said wait it out and you will feel so much better rather than who knows?

Posted by: red June 11, 2018, 8:14 PM
I was on methadone or 30 years and now have been on subutecs 3 1/2yrs now and am having sever panic attacks depression so anxious in the morning its become unbearable i dont know what is causing this has anyone else had experience s like this .