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Message Board > Synthetic Marijuana > Beating Synthetic Weed Addiction: Beginners Guide

Posted by: Josh May 1, 2013, 10:23 PM
For those of you who have come to this forum looking for a way to finally quit Synthetic Weed, this is it!!!

As you may have noticed the "Synthetic Weed" thread has drawn hundreds of addicts and thousands of viewers seeking guidance and has greatly helped many of us actively on the forum conquer this addiction.

I was an early poster on that forum and I'm happy to say that I'm almost a year clean without any relapses! There are many other veterans of this drug actively on this forum who have successfully recovered: DAC, Allison, Sash and Tog just to name a few (Sorry if I left anyone out!!) as well as helpful family figures such as Concerned Mamma (Thanks for all the help Mamma!) and Mumma Rainbow.

This thread is specifically for those of us who have made a full recovery to pass along any guidance or helpful strategies in coping with what you may have coming your way: The difficulties of withdrawals, detoxing, the emotional mood swings, the constant feeling that you will never feel the same.

In short, these all will pass! But it takes time and patience.

Many on this forum have asked me to repost my "survival kit" for the initial withdrawal/detox, which is pretty much your first three days off of synthetic. So here goes, along with anything else I can think of to pass to a new addict in recovery!

Posted by: Josh May 1, 2013, 10:44 PM
For those of you caught in the spiders web of Synthetic, know you want to stop but don't know how, I'd recommend starting with a "Withdrawal Survival Kit": (I originally posted this on the first page of "Synthetic Weed" on July 21st 2012)

Emetrol- for immediate relief from nausea (pepto bismol doesn't work for me).

Benadryl- for when your about to relapse, this will calm you and help you sleep it off. As Allison has said, don't overdo the Benadryl, just take the recommended dose on the box!

Chocolate- supposedly helps with cannabis withdrawal symptoms. (I don't remember ever eating chocolate during withdrawal phase, but I wrote it almost a year ago so maybe I did?)

Gatorade/Pedialyte- Beverages that replace electrolytes etc. when you hit the wall of symptoms, blowing liquid out of every hole, it's gonna feel like you just ran a marathon and will need to be replenished with fluids and electrolytes.

Imodium AD- I had both nausea and diarrhea... at the same time while going through withdrawals. Trust me, it sucks. this will at least help with the diarrhea part.

Soups- All I could manage to eat for days after quitting were small amounts of soup. My main source of nutrients was chicken noodle soup broth. I tried to eat a noodle or two, but I had to force feed myself and made me feel nauseous after just a few.

Entertainment- Something you can lose yourself in, get immersed so your not just thinking about getting high. If your into books get a good book series, or a movie series. You will begin to feel physically like death but will mentally feel super-smart compared to your old, high self. Things you would never think would interest you will, probably because your brain will be begging for a distraction from your current condition.

Warming layers- Blankets, sweat pants, sweat shirt, items you can easily put on or take off. Your going to go through hot flashes like crazy for the next three days, possibly a couple weeks. You'll be hot one second, freezing the next. You will also continually wake up in a puddle of your own sweat for a while. It's normal, don't worry.

Pretty much imagine going into a jail cell for 3 days with the flu... what would you bring?

More to follow...

Posted by: Josh May 1, 2013, 11:19 PM
I'll go ahead and give a snapshot of a year in recovery, what to expect:

DAY 1-3: Pure Hell. The rational, reasonable side of your brain had finally made the correct decision to stop this drug before it kills you. Problem: The rest of your mind and body will revolt like a toddler throwing a violent temper tantrum. Please warn your family and friends before you get started, or isolate yourself. I chose isolation for this phase. I'm not saying that's right, it's just what I happened to do.
As a full grown adult, I was reduced to newborn baby status on Days 1-3: Crying, puking, diarrhea, hungry, then nauseous and vomiting once I tried eating. Repeat. Could not sleep for more than a few hours, from what I remember. To be honest I think DAC, Allison, Tog, Sash or specifically Mermaid can better describe these days: I'm trying to remember what it was like a year ago and honestly my mind has blocked out a lot of it.

DAY4- first few weeks: Clouds will part and sunshine will spill through, the flu like symptoms have finally gone! I was euphoric these days, because I had beaten the demon. Once you've made it to day 4, DON"T LOOK BACK! Every day is easier after day 3.
You will deserve a sincere pat on the back once you get here. Please tell your story to others, it helps as well. By this time you can probably start eating your first solid food, for some reason I think I've read a few of us saying we ate spicy stuff? I have no idea why but I could only eat spicy boneless buffalo wings with celery and ranch dressing from Applebees. That's all I ate for lunch and dinner for nearly a week straight.

MONTH 1-2: For me the euphoric feeling of recovery subsided to an emotional roller coaster.... This is when the "will I ever be the same again" feelings really kicked in. I was VERY emotionally fragile. every time the phone rang my mind would reel, thinking it was going to be something horrible. I dreaded e-mails, phone calls, etc. Basically, the stressors of life become very hectic when you've been used to smoking your cares away for years, then stop. My mind had to figure out another coping mechanism other than drug use. Eventually mine became cooking/healthy eating and exercise.
During this time I could not watch the news, or even stressful TV shows. I had to strictly watch comedy and light hearted stuff. As I said, emotionally fragile. It WILL go away, I promise.
I also became very concerned with my health, the rational part of my brain kept wondering what sort of damage I had done. I went to the Doctors and had a plethora of tests run on me, even had my lungs x-rayed. I also had blood work done, cholesterol readings, blood sugar, blood pressure, etc. All tests came back that I was perfectly fine!!!!

MONTH3-6: New coping mechanisms developed, emotionally stable, life back to normal. After I got my tests back that I was perfectly fine, I began to exercise regularly, mostly just to clear all the tar and crap out of my lungs at first. Once I started exercising, riding my mountain bike along beautiful mountain trails, I found I extremely enjoyed being out in nature. I also got the natural "runners high" from exercise, without the drug use. I got a euphoric feeling from working out, being healthy and in nature.
I think most importantly it was a new activity that demanded ALL of my attention and focus when I was doing it. Ever zipped through single track downhill mountain trails on a bike? It's not something you do while also worrying about bills and daily stressors. I had found a new activity that naturally decompressed my emotions, and I felt elated every time I was finished. I also began cooking, and every time I prepared a new dish I became more proud of myself and my self sufficiency.

MONTH 6-10 (current time for me): Life is normal: every day stressors are there as always, but are taken care of throughout the day and not worried about at night. No major issues or concerns. I drink a mug of sleepytime tea before bed and sleep 8 hours every night (or close to it). I'm clean, organized, I eat healthy and I work out 5 days a week (I don't work out on the weekends, unless unintentionally like mountain biking). I spend time with friends and family, and no one seems to know what happened to me at all. None of my work friends or co-workers had any idea that I had gone to the edge and came back. I'm not sure how. I didn't ever smoke synthetic AT work, but I think in the end months before I quit I may have smoked before I went in...

Like I said before, much of that time of my life is kind of a blur now. I think my mind is past it, and doesn't like to revisit, or possibly doesn't feel the need to remember. Just don't do it again!

I would ask that DAC, Allison, Tog, Sash, Mermaid and all of us recovering addicts please add your recommendations, helpful tips and suggestions. It seems so far back to me now that I don't know how much help I can give to someone at day 1-3. I can't remember much of it like I could when I was first writing my posts on the other forum.

Let's open the floor to all!

Posted by: mermaid66 May 2, 2013, 3:36 AM
I'm on day 4 now, and starting to feel more human again...Josh has covered everything I think...but I will agree that the first 3 days are the worst, and the first day was horrible! I couldn't stay alone the entire day, i WAS SO AFRAID I would cave and get more that I went to the hospital just to sit in the waiting room for a few hours until finally a drug and alcohol councellor sat with me and chatted until the tobacco store was closed, so if you feel you are caving, talk, post, anything that will stop you getting more that first day, it gets easier each day you are away from it, and as others have advised, get rid of everything related to fake!!! The temptation is too great, I know, I had tried this idea of weaning myself off just to binge on what i had...

I didn't have so much spewing and sh*tting on the first day, but did have an attack of this the previous week when I when a couple of days off it the week before, but I didn't make it through then and main advice would be to never give up on giving up...I went through 3 weeks of buying, smoking a bit then throwing it down the toilet, just to run down the shop an hour later to buy more, I wasted so much money, but I knew I didn't want to smoke it anymore, but was out of control, it's really just today on Day 4 that i haven't been watching the clock and waiting for the tobacco shop to close at 5...yes, you do feel much better on day 4 and I've been able to eat a bit too now, couldn't really stomach anything the first two days, I just had a bit of toast and vegemite really...good aussie cure all food, lol

And it really helped me to post on these threads, Allison and I got a bit off topic yesterday, but it was a good distraction and helped me kill the time to get through the day, I finally felt ok to go out for a few hours today trusting i would not be tempted to buy more. I hope this helps someone, and any questions I'm happy to answer..

Posted by: Concernedmama May 2, 2013, 8:50 AM
Hey Josh,

I'm so happy you started a new thread for the recovery kit - I did it with my son in January and it helped immensely. He has since relapsed but feels he has it under control - of course it's the other way around but he doesn't see that.

I don't know what I would have done if not for this board. I was able to glean a spark of hope that this stuff can be beat. Reading everyone's posts and seeing the absolute suffering hurts my heart for all of you so much. I live it everyday but just on the other side - I have the worrying, the insomnia and downright FEAR of what will happen to my son if he doesn't quit. As it is he has a trifecta working, cigarettes, alcohol and fake bake. I think he is going to be the kind of man that has to hit rock bottom first before he will be able to pull himself out of this.

I live in Texas and they are/have presented a bill to ban all synthetic/designer potpourri/marijuana - Hopefully it will be out of our stores soon too. Your survival kit will be used again.

Take care everyone and know that prayers are said on your behalf everyday. Stay Strong!!!


Posted by: DAC May 2, 2013, 8:59 AM
Greetings to all - unfortunately I dont have much time right now. Thurs and Friday are the busiest days of my week , but I will put down everything others dont touch on tonight. Thanks to Josh for taking the ball and running with it , both in the beginning and now. Your input has been vital and beneficial to all involved with this synthetic nightmare and you are well past the point where you would even need to spend your time here - again..thanks!

A year ago I was in jail for 4 days stemming from an argument I had with my wife. Everything reminds me of that life - changing experience. I had not been in a jail for over 20 years at that point. The last for a fake ID I used in college (ooooh!). But this experience was precipitated by using spice/synthetic and it came at a very critical time in my life. Until my jail experience I used it sleep and to escape the overwhelming pressures and stress I had in my life at the time. But the jail experince perhaps triggered something of a full nervous breakdown I believe. I shut down, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. I gave up on things that I had worked a lifetime for - my business, my coaching, and my standing in the church and communtiy in general. It was then that I indulged in the full blown, everyday use that so many on this site have come to know.

Coming out of this addicion is not so easy. I have had many experiences with pot and believed I was dealing with something similiar...which the synthetic is not. There is a physical side to the addiction, and withdrawals to deal with after quitting. There is also a change in how the brain functions at a fundamental level that I am still attempting to understand. I cant go into all the details at the moment as I am late for work....but I will go into much greater detail later when I can be free to write.

So please...all you who contributed to the last thread on 'synthetic weed' , add your very important and useful information to kick this new thread off in a way that will invite, encourage, and supply vital information for anyone tangled in this horrible web.

I will be back in...13-14 hours or so...


Posted by: Allison May 2, 2013, 3:53 PM
Welcome, seekers.

Obviously if you have stumbled onto this site and this forum, you realize that synthetic has become an unmanageable problem and are looking for ways to overcome it. That is a huge step. And you have come to the right place.

It's important to know you are not alone. Even though this drug has a very unique way of isolating everyone it sinks it's claws into, you are so not alone. Many, many people have fallen victim to the exact same thing. And many, many people have traded away their families, friends, possessions, health, (both physical and mental) and even their freedoms as human beings. Please don't let the shame over that prevent you from getting free. You aren't the only one. You are probably going to have to face some hard truths along the way; it isn't easy but it definitely beats the alternative.

And it really isn't your fault. Everyone who started using this drug bought it in good faith that it was an easier, convenient and legal alternative to weed. We have all been fooled. It is nothing like weed. It is more like herbal crack. It is designed to get you hooked and keep you coming back for more. I truly believe that.

Follow Josh's advice for the "starter kit" to a T. It really does help. There is no drug that is going to prevent you from feeling all of the effects of the detox, but you can at least soften the blows a little bit.

And we addicts by nature demand instant gratification. There is no such thing when it comes to breaking free of this. You HAVE to resign yourself to the fact that you are going to suffer through the three worst and longest days of your life. It's different for everybody. And the severity of the withdrawals depends a lot upon how much you used, how often and for how long.

Just trudge through it. You will make it. And you will be numbered with those who have overcome this.

It may take awhile for your brain to bounce back to normal even after you make it through the 3 day mark. Please look up "Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome." Many of those symptoms you will still be dealing with. You will feel like you've gone insane and have done permanent brain damage to yourself. I promise you, you haven't. It just takes a while to heal. It's normal and it gets better and gets better pretty quickly, really.

I really wish everybody the best. And God is always there when you are ready. We look forward to hearing from you on the sister thread we have kind of taken over. :)

Posted by: DAC May 3, 2013, 10:17 AM
I first came to this site after stopping smoking synthetic after an extended period of use. I , like many who came here, considered spice/synthetic to be a substitute for actually smoking marijuana. I came here to get information, to read , and to occupy my mind since in the beginning I did not understand why I was having such a problem putting it away for good. I cant say enough how reading the experiences of others helped!

Initially, it was to help me sleep. But as with anyone who has an addictive personality, it grew to be more and more as time went by. I have been on and off again with this drug for over 2 years - quitting many times for periods of days, weeks, and even up to 3 months at a time. So when I first came here, it was an attempt to understand exactly what was going on with this particular drug - and me! I had no idea that there were physically addicting chemicals being put into the blends.

I had smoked pot in the past and had NEVER had any trouble quitting. I have a seasonal business and would smoke during the winter months and lay it down 'cold turkey' each and every Spring. I would be completely clean for the next 8 months, and could do this seemingly at will. But pot isnt physically addictive, only psychologically addictive, and I was able to overcome the mental part with ease. Spice/synthetic was much different.

The first day is when most people will repeatedly fail. Consider this, I NEVER bought more than one package at a time. Subconsciously I was going to quit every time the bag ran out....only I never did! In the beginning a 1 gram bag would last 4 - 7 my worst? I was going though a 3 gram bag every day and was still making the trip to buy one...each and every day.

The last such period was for 4-6 months or so almost non-stop (there were small breaks) and when I tried to quit after a prolonged period of time I became acquainted with the reality of the how bad the withdrawals could be. The physical side is one thing, but the mental is what I believe causes most to fail many times before being successful at quitting for good.

On day one you will have an almost constant urge to go out and get more. One excuse after another will pop up and almost any rationalization will be enough to trip you up. For me, it was literally every 10-15 minutes I was having this battle and one of the reasons I started reading everything I could about what it was I was dealing with. I needed to occupy my mind now that I had nothing else to do so. It is so easy to give into because the difference between the 'down' feeling of withdrawal, and the 'instant good mood' feeling of returning for 'just one last time' is like the difference of night and day.

Immediately after stopping your energy level will be down, you will be irritable, and in just a lethargic - yet angry , state of mind. For me, I kept asking myself "Why cant I do this if it gives me the motivation to get things done"? But the truth is, once you start smoking again, you will get little done past that first high. It's a cycle thats hard to break...Anyway, on day one I would often do nothing but lay around and have these mental battles all day long. I would eat NOTHING and would physically feel sick - mostly diarhea and a lot of coughing. But the mental? The guilt , the depression, the regret, coupled with the almost constant temptation to end the suffering by giving in ' just one last time' was worse.

I have a theory that because the synthetic is so much more powerful ( I have read it is 20 - 800 times more potent than THC) , and the duration fairly short lived, that the constant use (every 20 - 30 minutes) most experience when smoking all the time will similiarly cause someone quitting to experience these 'relapse tempations' much more often - and much more severe as compared to other drugs. It seems the rational mind knows it should stop when high, but when away from smoking (even a few hours), the non-rational thinking drives us back into use. It is just too easy to relieve the distress your body and mind will feel once you have quit for a while

Once past the first 24 hours the temptations ease a little, but it will still be an ever present thought for up to week sometimes. It seems to get easier after 3 or 4 days because the physical side effects will begin to subside. But this is just the start. Dont be fooled by thinking that once the immediate cravings end that you are home free. It seems the synthetic changes thinking at a fundamental level and 'relapsing' can be triggered at any time over the smallest of things. Any bad day can become too much, and your mind knows how to end the least temporarily.

The less you smoked, the less pronounced these symptoms will be. But dont be surprised if you try and quit multiple times before finally succeeding. If you were depressed, or going through trouble before escaping into the synthetic, these problems flood back with an even greater intensity after stopping. But they will only get worse if you continue to use dont!

Hope this helps.

Posted by: Concernedmama May 9, 2013, 10:03 PM
I'm bumping this post back to the top - I see that we have new people wanting advice.

Take care everyone and stay strong - praying you for you all.


Posted by: DAC May 14, 2013, 8:36 AM
For those attempting to quit just know many of us have tried several times before successful. I wont consider myself a success until I have gone a complete year free of ANY substance!!

Posted by: mermaid66 May 15, 2013, 3:37 AM
Yep, I've relapsed again on synth, Dac you saw it coming, and I think I did too, as much as I don't want it, I want it...but not too far gone, a few days, and want to stop, again, of back to day one, but I've had a few day one's now, now I want to get to 7 days, 4 days seems to be my breaking point, and the hurdle i need to get over, so here I go again :(

Posted by: DAC May 15, 2013, 5:06 AM

Its good to be honest! If you read my earlier posts you know I did the quitting thing many times before I finally got over it. I know it was finally made illegal here, but I could get pot, and probably the synthetic over the internet if I really wanted it - I just havent tried. Just keep your resolve - your perspective on what you have accomplished over the last couple of weeks. Take into account your use before and compare it to now. When I first started posting on this site I was quitting from smoking as much as 3gram a day. All my relapses since then combined to only about 3grams total! And that's for almost 3 months now!!

Thurs will be 5 weeks completely clean - I had many day 1's and it can be depressing. But you know so much more now. When you do relapse it will reaffirm your desire to quit. You want to quit - I can tell. That is the biggest step! You are just experiencing a path that some of us must take before we can finally get hold of sobriety for good. Its the age-old short term want vs long term need question. You know where you want to be - it should be an easy decision - a straight path. But for people like you and me it ends up being a long - winding path. Still, eventually you/I will get there in the end.

Regret is the hardest thing I personally have to deal with. Beating yourself up only makes it more likely to again fail. So get day 1 over...Get onto getting past day 4, and very shortly you can start measuring in weeks!!

Your writing is a means to an end. It is a form of self-discovery and a way of processing the conflicts you are encountering. Your slips and setbacks can save others from doing the same. If not, they can soften the blow for others who will experience the same problem with the synthetic tempation. You have much company and compassion here - everyone wants the best for you in the end.

So keep us informed!

Posted by: mermaid66 May 16, 2013, 1:22 AM
Thanks again Dac, yes I've heard it can take 5 times or more to quit smoking, so why would this smoke be different I guess, and I'm pretty well there I think, because it would have to be that or more if I include pot...

I just know it doesn't make me feel good, I have like 5 seconds, if that, of the 'relief' of dragging on a joint, then just that too high feeling, come down and 15 minutes later do it again...over and over and bloody over, until my lungs are burnt out shells, and there's no where else to go but bed to try and stop for the day, that is if I can stay in bed as I usually just get up over and over and don't stop until it's all gone, sound like fun! lol, no relaxing stone here...and this is what I have to remember, the reality of it, not the illusion of what I think it will do, like be some hippy on the mellowest trip ever, not a care in the world, groovy man.... has never happened, where does my brain get this illusion??? Doesn't matter because illusion it is, and a tricky illusion too, wants to suck me in even now, but it won't today, and I plan to say that everyday, something has to change this time, and I'm going beyond my apathy and lack of any motivation to put activites into my life, whether I want to at first or not, I have to force myself...

And keep letting it all out Dac, it's what I need to do as well,..I always think no one wants to hear my crap and I keep it in until I get overwhelmed and then I relapse, I have never been able to pick up the phone to ask for help, but as we are anon here, and people can scroll through if they don't want to read it all, we have an opportunity to let it all out, a problem shared is a problem halved, and if you venting makes you feel a bit better and stops a relapse the I say write as much and as often about anything!!! This is what I need to add to my survival plan, and you are showing me the way...

Have had a rough few weeks worrying about my daughter, who isn't healing from an operation properly and has to have another fix it up op soon, (yeah just because your husband is now a quad doesn't mean you get a free pass through the rest of life..)so have to give over that worry as It's not helping with where I need to get, so need to work on lovingly detaching, listening but not taking it all's been a horror couple of years and she didn't need this, but life goes on being life, and this is just another bump, and that's how I need to see myself in this, getting over another bump, hope the road smooths out soon...

Posted by: Zyzz May 17, 2013, 7:56 AM
Amazing to read so many people who share the same experiences as myself. Like countless other I tried synthetic almost 2 years ago as a legal alternative to pot. I've tried to quit many times but always find an excuse to relapse.

Recently I've been able to abstain during the work week and "allowed" myself to smoke on weekends. Unfortunately i "reward" myself on holidays by going hard and smoking everyday, every couple of hours or even more often.

My wife has no real idea as to the extent of my addiction - she has caught me a couple of times - but I am pretty good at only smoking when she is out of the house or preoccupied (I generally smoke in my garden shed where my family have no interest in going).

Several times I have had "moments of clarity" and thrown all the synthetic out - this usually happens straight after I have smoked and am in a drug induced haze. As the high wears off I find myself going through the bin trying to find what I have thrown out or race down to the tobacco store to purchase more.

I have to quit - if not for myself or my health for my family. On weekends I regularly withdraw from family activities so I can stay at home and smoke. I hate doing it and beat myself up and don't want to feel like this anymore - I feel weak and ashamed.

I know this drug is affecting my memory and I have trouble sleeping at night waking several times a night. To get back to sleep I often sneak out to the shed for a hit.

I haven't smoked for two days now but going without for 4-5 days isn't such of a challenge. Interestingly I've never experienced the withdrawals of not being able to eat solids or being physically sick.

I live a very busy life, have a good job, coach sport at a high level, own a nice house and a have a sensational family but this sh*t is a secret shame that I am so embarrassed about. I worry about the health affects and my greatest fear is not being around to see my children grow up, marry and have their own children.

Writing this post has been therapeutic and I am glad I stumbled across this site. The advice and experiences of others gives me real hope. I will definitely keep visiting and updating my story. Any additional advice to beat this demon will be greatly appreciated.

Posted by: DAC May 17, 2013, 4:11 PM

When reading your story I draw several parallels to my own. Last year I felt I could 'control' the use by only smoking a couple times a day, or like you, going days without and then 'rewarding' myself with indulging myself as much as I wanted when I had the time. I have a large family - 5 kids, only three left at home. I coached baseball for years. Was on the finance board at church , taught sunday school...a completely functioning 'addict'. I say addict because I could not just 'lay it down' the same way I had pot so many times.

I have a seasonal business so I have 4 months downtime. In my younger days I would 'reward' myself for a hard-worked season by allowing myself to smoke pot in the off-season. Usually from late Nov til mid March. Pot was not a problem...easily picked up a put back down. I didnt mix work and 'pleasure' so I would stop cold turkey each year in the Spring and not even think about it till I was done with my work for the year.

But I had 'moral' problems with smoking pot. It also was illegal. So about 10 years ago I quit smoking altogether and went the next seven clean. Then I tripped..I found a pot pipe with resin in it at the end of my season and didnt throw it away immediately. I ended up trying it out again and IMMEDIATELY was remined of why I loved this certain drug. It wasnt long after this that I began hearing so much about the controversy surrounding K2. And low and behold they were selling it at my local gas station....that began my current troubles.

At first the synthetic was not as strong as pot, much shorter in duration, and because it was legal I didnt have to worry about my reputation being ruined over getting pulled over with it. I got to have my cake and eat it too! Get high legally and not worry about getting caught!

But I still grappled with the moral issues. I didnt feel comfortable smoking ANYTHING and if I didnt want to be seen as a pothead - I also didnt want the stigma of using ANY drug. But thats where the mental debate began that still rages in some ways to this day. I had heavy financial issues weighing down on me..mostly from building houses and holding one at the wrong time when the market crashed in 2008. A house that was to cost 90 and sell for 130 ended up costing me $15k when I finally sold it....almost 2 years after I built it!

I wasnt sleeping, had chest pains, and never seemed to have any peace of mind. Thats when the synthetic came along and offered me my 'stress relief'. But it did something else as well. I was already questioning where I was at in life in regards to business and working such long hours that I hardly ever saw the kids when I was 'in season'. The synthetic led me to change how I saw these 'unsolvable problems'. I felt peace for the first time that it would work its way out. I dont know how to explain it other than to say I am intense, focused, and obsessive about solving whatever problems I may have in life....the problems I had experienced for so long seemed to not have a solution, so I didnt sleep well and could not find much enjoyment in life because of these problems. The synthetic changed my mood almost overnight. It seemed to 'unbundle' my thoughts so I didnt obsess as much. It also seemed to give me 'new' ideas that I had never considered before...

Like the writing. I never had a desire to express my thoughts in a literary medium. I was so guarded and private I was actually afraid to write anything down for fear that someone else might accidently stumble across it and read it. I had such low self esteem in terms of expressing myself that I would never play the guitar when others could hear me, would be horrified to sing in front of someone, and was terrified of speaking in front of even a couple of people.

But all of the sudden I was writing A LOT!! I was playing the guitar AND able to sing along - something I had never been able to do before. And I got this idea to do comedy and even got up on stage 7 times last year...At the time I attributed this to the synthetic...

But now, after putting the synthetic away and being able to process things with my mind uncluttered? I believe I was going through some sort of mid-life crisis. The synthetic eased the pain of this crisis , but the new direction I wanted to take in life was more due to my writing out my thoughts than anything. I was conflicted because of the drug so I wanted to sort out my thoughts by writing to my pastor... Once I started I couldnt seem to stop. It was like a lifetime of ideas flooded out of my mind seemingly at once!

The mood, the energy, the outlandish ideas I had for my 'act' I believed were a credit to the drug...but now with the perspective of time and the absence of any drug influence at all, I am happy to report that they are even better now than when under the influence! I dont have trouble focusing, I remember more, and I dont lose my train of thought halfway through a setup like I did when I was smoking. And the fear of performing ( I used to have to get high to get on stage) has been replaced by a DESIRE to do so!

Wierd...I know...but true.

I cant say how much it helps to take the time to write out the thought process and conflicts you may have as you wrestle with the reasons 'to do' or 'not to do' a particular drug. I wanted to have this discussion with people who knew me...but couldnt get a decent conversation. I was trying to explain things with an open mind...theirs were closed! I really didnt experience any growth or resolve any of these questions until I began writing in this forum. Not only did I hear shared experiences, but I got useful feedback as well. For the first time since this started, I began to understand what the synthetic's effect on my behavior was.

I read another (stacey-24gordon) remark that the drug wasnt a 'problem' for me , but a 'solution'. And that really made the most sense of what I had experienced. It took away stress, helped me sleep, and took me in a new direction.... or so I thought. The reality was that it 'added' stress, it interrupted my sleep, and clouded my mind so that it impeded my progress pursuing a new 'direction'. It definitely has a very short term - short lived benefit. But the long term effects - wasting time, diminished health, and creating distance between loved ones are just not worth the price.

This is me with a 'short' reply...

keep coming back

Posted by: DAC May 17, 2013, 4:53 PM

I dont know if you go back and read your earlier posts, but you sound much better...more articulate! I think that like me, you had a lot of thoughts saved up that just needed to get out. I feel better the more I write. If I want to go back and retrieve something - I can. I know at one point last year I did not want to listen to radio, read a paper, or even watch TV because I had so many unvoiced opinions stored in my mind, I just couldnt fit any more in!

Coming here, free of judgement, without the worry of 'running into' people you have opened up too helps immensely. Getting feedback, knowing you are not alone, and that you share struggles others have had decreases the feelings of isolation. It IS theraputic. It IS part of the recovery process that should not be ignored! It took me a long time to get to this point of being able to share my thoughts, and I seem to never be able to empty what I have stored....

Of course some may be saying to themselves...Damm! I thought he was almost done.

But I wont be done til the problems are gone...and that will be far off into the future...Also, helping others helps yourself. Dont forget that! Do what you can for your daughter. Listen, be there for her, but dont feel it is your obligation to SOLVE the problem. Just be a comfort to her as you can. She will need an outlet as well...Maybe she would want to write to you? Emails, facebook, twitter, I personally dont do much of these anymore but it helps to get it out one way or another...

Looks like the storm has passed...back to work!

Posted by: mermaid66 May 19, 2013, 4:47 AM
In reading your post Dac I could see how my own building stress culminated in my seeking relief in a substance I though offered a safe (like pot) legal option for me beacuse i can't drink...

I look back over the past 2 years and see that the accident, having to give up my job and home, caring for grandkids full time, and even my cars motor blowing up, it's a no brainer that i did look for the relief I THOUGHT this synth would bring, bloody miracle I didn't drink again as well!!! Was NOT the answer and just added a new problem, relapse into substance abuse...

And can I say to any family members who are reading here for info, ask yourself whether you've ever found stress so high that you've had a couple of glasses of wine, or taken a calmative, that was legal or prescribed, or eaten that comfort food, or went shopping for things you didn't need, or thrown yourself entirely into work ...I think we have all done it, we are human, the thing is just because what someone else has picked up isn't what you would, or if they have the addict gene and find they can't moderate or put it down, there should be no judgement ever!!!! Only ever love and support as they find their own way out with information given by people who care enough to share their own experience...and people who try to control others are just control addicts themselves, they need to get well too!!!

My rant, sorry, but I get a bit fed up with judgement and controlling...doesn't help, never has and never will...

Posted by: DAC May 20, 2013, 9:26 AM

I think I answered your last post on the other thread , so the detailed advice about synthetic I will put here. Completely a**-backwards which is what most should expect from me now!

When quitting, and having relapses, you will notice that the severity of the withdrawals will lesson. The drug wont become the issue it was when it was an unknown and you were surprised by the physical downside. There will be a noticeable pattern and you will come to think that it might even be 'controllable'.

Dont fall into this trap. If you continue to slip and relapse the severity of quitting again rapidly drops off and you will mistakenly believe that the relapses themselves are controllable. This is where I was at last year going into my season. I 'gave myself permission' to repeat this process off and on , but the use steadily increased again. In my case, when something traumatic happened - going to jail. I completely went off the deep end and got high every minute of every day for a while. This led me to the severe withdrawals, depression, and further stress and problems sleeping which only led me back to using at a lower level I even stopped twice for two months and still fell back to this pattern. When I first started posting I did the same thing as you - clean two weeks..then the slips...minor at first - then much more frequent!

Glean what you can from my mistakes and try not to repeat them.

I wish you luck!

Posted by: mermaid66 May 21, 2013, 4:30 AM
Yes, I can see this was happening to me, just had to see how it only took two days after what I thought was the 'safer' relapse on pot to become the synthetic again, and it was more intense, and I felt even more depressed than the first time, that scared me, as I was depressed to start with, I was thinking that life was just too hard after the second relapse, and we all know where that thinking leads...

Like I answered on the other thread, my cravings seem to intensify each day I'm away from it, (this doesn't seem to happen to everyone thankfully, they seem to lessen, so lucky me!!..) I know this has to pass eventually, but as the underlying problem was still there, going through the pain with nothing is just unbearable, but I've done a wise thing today (finally) and was really honest with a doctor, and may I say, this doctor listened and realised that what I was going through was serious, it felt good to pour it out and to be taken seriously, really good...

Your experience hasn't been a waste, because now you can relate it to people like me who sincerely want to get away from this stuff, and give us some understanding of the process of getting clean again...:)

Posted by: DAC May 21, 2013, 11:20 AM

I hear people talk about quitting a drug like its just as simple as stopping the use. But I have always known that it was much more than that. Simple will power....'Just saying no' is a short term solution just like 'doing' the drug is a short term solution. The REAL issues that keep coming back again have to do with something much deeper. I know you went a long time without anything to drink...and I had done the same thing with pot. But in the end we let our guard down and got caught up in a 'substitute' addiction that replaced the old. Only this time we had more reasons for a need to numb so it has been harder to get away from. There are still many unknowns about what is in the synthetic weed, why it is so powerful, and why the mental desire is so great for some weeks or months away....

I believe that it comes down to compulsion. You mentioned several things you have done compulsively over the years...I could list many different things for myself. I call this an all or nothing type of mentality. But it has to do with a kind of single-minded approach to life that I believe is just typical for addict's. We cant do ANYTHING in moderation. And consequently, this excess leads to either being REALLY happy or REALLY down depending on where we are in life. The knowledge that a substance can change this mood? Just an increased temptation and mental battle when we dont have the substance.

If you consider yourself a type A personality - independent, strong will, dominant, take charge, etc then you will believe that a drug can be controlled. Mind over matter, just put it down, then pick it up at will. I still believe this to some extent , but there is something about a mental 'cure-all' that will cause it to get out of control. Its a short term fix to MANY problems - but remember, the long term disaster it can bring.

Its like I have this wound that has scabbed over and really itches... I know I shouldnt scratch that itch because it will just reopen that wound and it will take longer to heal. But once I start to scratch a little? It's not long that I am furiosly scratching away , ignoring the blood, the pain, and the damage I know I am doing because it just 'feels so good' to not itch any more....Of course when itch is gone I feel bad, regret what I have done, and bandage the sore back up....

Only now its going to leave a really nasty scar!!

An addicts 'wound' is in the head....just another theory....

Posted by: andy May 22, 2013, 2:31 PM

I scour these pages still from time to time. While I appreciate the place to live, I am more isolated than I was before I got here. Their reasoning behind this rule is for one, apparently it's unhealthy to have my only network of support be strangers over the internet; and they think all this is doing is spreading "negativity," and they don't appreciate my spreading "gossip" about them "for the whole world to see." I have been to one NA meeting since I've been here, partly as an assignment for a class and partly just to be around others in recovery, but it's an hour's drive and they make a family outing out of it; I really don't wanna go back. Also, it's the only meeting around here and most of the people there are there against their will (court mandated, I think.) So... now I have 0 support network. I have tried to tell them how much it benefits me to be able to be around or communicate with other people in recovery, that there are some things I just can't share with them, that they wouldn't understand, and I kinda just get brushed off. Also, until recently, I haven't even been able to spend any time alone. I like alone time. It doesn't mean I'm in a mood, doesn't mean I'm up to something, I just like the quiet time. I can hardly shut the bedroom door without it offending somebody or having someone knock on the door and ask me what I'm doing. I'm in school (making straight A's, by the way) and I can't concentrate when other people are talking in the next room and walking in and out. *sigh.* My step mom had a friend come down for a few days, so I've been able to go off and do my own thing more without it bothering her; that may soon change though. I love them, am glad for the place to stay, but I kind of hate living here. I hate not having any privacy whatsoever. I hate having to walk a tightrope 24 hours a day, trying to make sure nothing I say or do offends anybody. I had a job interview today, I should know sometime next week... Adam has a good job at Olive Garden; we're trying to get our crap together ASAP so I can get out of here. It's no vacation for them, either. And they have never met him, but see him as my enabler (which he was) but I think are pretty open to meeting him. The plan initially was to save up for the airfare to get him down here for a few days so he could meet them and then us fly back together (also, I've never flown before...) but we've kind of scrapped that plan and are just trying to save up enough money for an apartment and to get me there. Hopefully, if I get this job, I should be able to leave sometime in July/ early August. That's what we're shooting for. And no, he doesn't agree with the methods, either. And yes, I am almost 30, but don't act like it and need to earn the right to be treated like a 30 year old. I told them I wouldn't be on here and they said they haven't read it since the last time. I'm sure they will be upset if they know I went behind their back and posted anyway...

Other than that, it's going great! We get along fine, just my recovery has been put on the back burner for awhile.

Posted by: mermaid66 May 23, 2013, 12:54 AM
Dac, I TOTALLY agree with everything you have said, and the itchy sore is a great example, descibes it perfectly!!!

Yes, my goal is to strive for a more balanced life, to find and stick to people that REALLY care about others, not just how THEY feel, and leave those types behind, (or just have as little interaction as I can!) and do the same, be the person I'd like others to be...and start being honestly me, not what others want me to be, so it's basically turning the way I have always lived on it's head!!! lol, and believing I can!!!

And for anyone new here, read all the threads, you will learn so much from others who have had and are sharing your experience, I think a few miracles are happening here, so feel free to stay and keep trying, if I can start getting better, so can you!!!

Posted by: mermaid66 May 23, 2013, 1:07 AM

Hi Andy :), I so hope it works out and you can get a place of your own asap...the people you are living with, while they may have good intentions, 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' and I'm afraid they are doing you more harm than good, and basically setting you up for a relapse!!! I hope you can detach from what they are saying and doing...really its just not acceptable, and when you said you need to 'earn your right to be treated as a 30 year old', that just sounded like they are drilling you with totall controlling disfunctional parent stuff, you ARE almost 30, and they need to back off and treat you like a decent human being, whatever problems you may have had or are dealing with, with rights like any other adult!! makes me really cranky and my heat goes out to you...sending love and hugs, you are a wonderful and worthwhile person, whether they see it or not!!!! God doesn't make crap!!!

Posted by: DAC May 23, 2013, 8:35 AM

I just came from what used to be a bible study. It has turned into 4 - 5 guys getting together and talking about issues that they dont really talk with much to others. Most of us have known each other for years, but havent had much time to really sit and talk. We get together at 6:30 am which is not my thing, but I have really come to appreciate it. I almost always leave on a laugh and with a good attitude about the day!

It is important to connect with people in some way. When self medicating I would not venture out for anything. I stayed home with my medication.... In recovery, communicating - whether by writing, on the phone, or in person is something we all need to do. But it should be with people who will listen, offer help, and not judge! If we communicate with the wrong type of people we will become frustrated and end up back in our cycle of use. Having a couple of outlets where you can vent, be yourself unabashed, and give details without the fear of repproach I believe speeds up the recovery process and makes it far more likely to heal in a way that will truly make the dependence on a substance far less likely!

Glad you feel better....


Welcome to the board;) Your going through a tough time I know. I write things that sometimes come across as advice - but they are really my reactions to people I have interactions with in 'real life'. I say this so that if some of my comments come across as abrasive it is important to reiterate that I do NOT know these people I am making the comments to - I am voicing an opinion (often a strong one) to others who have affected me.

That said, If I were in your situation I would remind those trying to 'help' you of a couple of things. The 'help' is in minor parentheses because they are really helping themself more than you. I have no doubt they believe they are doing the right thing, that they love you, they want the best for you, and that they want you to get past this trying time in your life. They are just doing on 'their' terms - not yours.

You are in what essentially is a forced 'rehab'. Instead of a facility you have a home, instead of a counselor you have parents, and the opportunity to relapse is absent so even though that possibility is not 'currently' possible it could eventually make things worse. The evidence is all over these forums from many sources on how treatment forced on an individual often fails. I would make sure they are aware of this...

The N.A. meetings only work if they work for you. If you are not wanting to go - or if you do want to go but feel stifled and unable to expess yourself at the meetings - they are probably a waste of time. Would they drive you there and let you go inside on your own? Or would they be worried that something might come out that they dont want said? I have no knowledge of these people other than what you have said but THEY need to be aware that a person like me will deduce that their interference with you talking to others seems to suggest that they have something they want to cover up. Something they dont want to others to know. Just me grasping, but if it were true it would explain a lot of your behavior over the years and would be something you needed to talk about in order to heal. I say 'explain', not 'excuse'. Big difference in those words. But talking about something that you feel cant be talked about is the only way to get past these feelings...otherwise they will haunt you time and time again!

As for the isolation thing, that screams at me the loudest as something which could very detrimental to recovery. I feel it - and I have people around me all the time! People want my take on things, they come to me for advice, they seemingly 'trust' what I have to say as long as it is not about myself....then I am just bringing up the past - rehashing old memories. My problem is that I have never heard an acknowlegement of any of my points that I bring up. Like last year, I had a safety net in place for me to have avoided jail. A guy who I would have considered my best friend at the time had the opportunity to intervene and give a defense for me that I could not give for myself at the time. But that safety net bounced me IN to the system instead of keeping me out. Should the tables have been turned? Say, his wife come to me all upset about a 'picture' on his cellphone??? I would have bent over backwards attempting to cool her down and get her to not jump to conclusions... I would have been his biggest defender in that moment...My big secret was not even secret - my drug use. But they just seem to validate each others arguments about how I had such a 'problem' that I ended up going to jail and beginning a truly deperate time spent in isolation because now I felt like I had no one to talk to! Once I did go jail, the need for them to 'justify' their actions only led to a more obstinant refusal to ever consider my intial claim - that a mountain was made out of molehill and that the 'drug use' was only the tip of a much larger iceberg!

Sorry to keep coming back to that, I was really trying to concentrate on your situation...

As far as it being 'negative' or 'unhealthy' for you to come here to the internet and express yourself - I find that completely selfish. Again, it's about them , not you. This is a textbook control argument and is why I make the point of you almost being 30. I wouldnt treat my 12 year old like this! Especially if I had access to what they were writing...unless I had something to hide...It is a counter productive argument. They have an ability to learn things about you they would have never been able to under normal circumstances. They should also be able to see first- hand how you have been able to grow from expessing yourself in an environment where people dont know you and WONT judge you! Anonymnity allows people to divulge their true feelings to people who wont be there to give them reproachful or dirty looks the next day - or perhaps the rest of their life!

ANY support network that encourages you to bring forth issues you have struggled with is one that should be treated as healthy. What gives strength to one in our situations is that we often have no one immediately available to bear the weight of these problems. The need to 'fix' someones elses problems with a quick solution only leads to frustration for the one giving the advice because they grow tired of hearing about the problem. When the problem is that no one will listen? That will then reinforce your frustration and isolation by making you feel it does no good to voice your concerns...leading you to internalize the frustration and take it out eventually through drug use!! It is a vicious cycle!! It is only broken WITH communication - by whatever means available!!

Writing out ones feelings is such an underappreciated tool of recovery. The whole 'not wanting to offend' part of conversation is allowed much more freedom. From that freedom comes an exposure of what you really think and feel about your situation. I know when I write I put out what I 'feel' more than I worry about the contentof what I write. I briefly check the spelling, but really dont change much at all about what comes out firsthand. Since I now post early, and then hit edit frequently to add more, I can see how long it takes to write some of these long posts. The faster it comes out - the more honest it is!! It is exactly how I feel at the moment, and when I hit 'submit' it often feels like a weight has been removed because I have said something that I needed to clear from my mind. To know others read these musings, and that to some they have offered a degree of comfort? VERY helpful to me!!

So THANK YOU all for being there!!

I still have much more to write but it will have to wait till later...gotta rest for the wicked??

And Andy, just keep fending off those 'bull queers' with your mop, your words, or even your feet....if you just give in, you wont be able to 'sit' with yourself without experiencing much 'inner pain'.:)

til later...

Posted by: DAC May 24, 2013, 10:16 AM

Your best argument about this forum being unhealthy? When did you first decide the synthetic was a problem? When did you decide to open up to family about this problem? Why do they know what they know at all?? If it had anything to do with coming here I would point that out... Months ago you were without solutions, werent in school, and had no plans of breaking out of your situation. Now you are on a path to improvement, you've moved on, your in school and making progress, reconnecting to loved ones (though difficult), and have plans of adventuring out into life without the aid of a substance that has kept you in one place for so long. If ANY of that had to do with your self discovery, and attempt to find answers here it should at least be mentioned.

If just one of these positives were influenced - this site couldnt be considered 'negative'!

I see much you should feel proud of!! Keep your hopes up!!

Posted by: StaceyG May 24, 2013, 12:20 PM
Sorry to get off topic, but I was wondering if any of you had any advice on how I can help my son during this aweful phase. I know it's all really up to him, but is there anything your family or friends did that helped at all. I realize that you've probably discussed this many times, but I am going blind trying to read everything! He's been smoking for over a year (possibly more), he's a 22 year old skinny thing on his fourth day...

Posted by: StaceyG May 24, 2013, 12:25 PM
...and I've already got him on Josh's items for the actual withdrawal, just talking about beyond that.


Posted by: Allison May 24, 2013, 1:11 PM
I can tell you from experience, most parental intercession is completely counter productive, no matter how good their intentions are. The best thing you can do (and really the only thing you should do) is send him the care package, tell him about this site if you want, and then BACK OFF! This is his problem, not yours. It has nothing to do with how much you care about him, but you are not trained or qualified to understand what he is going through. Let him know you're there for him, check up on him, but that is IT. Don't put more pressure on him than he is already under.

Posted by: StaceyG May 24, 2013, 1:53 PM
Luckily he lives on the other side of the state, or I'd probably be fighting the urge to try and scoop him up and try to "fix" it. I do know I can't do it for him and will try and focus on the things I can help with. He says his roommate smokes it and is trying to quit and another friend is in the hospital with complications from it. Having a 17 year old girl and a 22 year old boy, I actually do know the value of "butting out". I feel he should find a new roommate or get a place of his own but all I think I'll do is offer to help if he wants to move. Sure wish I could just send him to his room without tv!! Those were the good ol days...

Posted by: Allison May 24, 2013, 6:14 PM
My parents wish the same thing, except I always liked it in my room better anyway... And yes, getting out of that environment is a necessity...

Posted by: DAC May 25, 2013, 11:05 AM

What state do you live in? I ask because many states have banned it and many others have pending legislation. Knowing it will become unavailble will help. If he has smoked it a long time he wont be able to just go back to he might just stop everything if that scenario presents itself...

let us know if you have any specific questions you want answered - I am a dad with adult children as well. Of course, unfortunately I also have many personal experiences to speak from as well...

Posted by: DAC June 3, 2013, 12:37 PM
I have been away from marijuana for almost a year. I had an opportunity to use a limited amount for about a week and I noticed several things that were different from the synthetic.

The urge to write was not the same - not the same at all. Pot seems to make my thinking slower, where the synthetic made me hyper-creative. Also, pot makes me sleep deeply with few memorable dreams. No 'fever'dreams. My appetite is off the charts when smoking! I actually gained wieght this past week. But overall, the biggest difference is just in the energy level. Pot makes me tired! If I smoke all day I will fall asleep early and sleep til morning only waking briefly. The synthetic seems to 'give' energy and the resulting interruptions in sleep make it possible to get by with very little if on a busy schedule.

Last year when I made my 'peace' with my use it was with the synthetic. I dont think I would have made the same compromise with pot. Pot makes me lazy....the synthetic at least gave the impression that it helped me stay up longer!

Posted by: newlifeforyou June 3, 2013, 7:32 PM
Might as well make good use of from rehab to through in a little scare tactics, for those who still think this is not a big deal. if you want to know how damaging this stuff is there are countless reports from the CDC, NIH and others, linked in my report regarding the dangers.


Psychosis, depression, suicidal thoughts are the least of your worries. This can lead to serous acute (permanent) liver and kidney damage!

Please read the report if your even entertaining smoking synthetic weed or bath salts. I really would like to know why this stuff is legal?!?!

Posted by: DAC June 17, 2013, 1:05 PM

How is your treatment coming along. Are you done yet? I was curious if you had any of the depression or strange dreams that still happen about a month away from the synthetic. I think that some of the effects from the withdrawals can last for as long as a couple of months. I also think that it has to do with the sleep cycle.....let me know if you have noticed any of the same things.

Posted by: Charity June 28, 2013, 12:51 AM
Thank you so much for posting this survival guide!!! My fiancee went through a withdrawl today and has come to a realization that he is done and wants to quit

Posted by: DAC July 1, 2013, 1:16 PM
I recently watched a biography on Richard Pryor. Many of his experiences I found similiar to my own. On stage he was outrageous, offensive, and he made people laugh by pointing at his own pain. During the documentary it was mentioned that he was a very sensitive person. Sensitivity can often make a person see things that others overlook and is something that many comedians have in common. However, another thing was pointed out during the documentary about his sensitivity that I found interesting. Sensitivity leads to an increased tendency to 'self-medicate'. It was argued that sensitivity makes people try and handle things themselves - that way no one else can 'hurt' them. Many times this will include turning to a drug....after all drugs promise relief...not more pain.

Only in the last year have i realized just how sensitive I am. I think when I try to be funny I am just trying to insult myself before others have a chance to do so. As for the self-medication? I have done this most of my life so anything that gives me an insight to my behavior is something I want to explore.

Understanding ones self is a critical part of recovery. Knowing that the drug is often just a symptom of a much worse problem is helpful to know. Once the drug use stops, many times these problems come back full force - with nothing to mute them!

I only put this out there in the chance that maybe it helps someone else understand themself better.

Posted by: DAC July 9, 2013, 1:22 PM
I just wanted to put on here that when quitting, I have a problem about two weeks out. The problem is mood related - depression. It seems to kick in for a few days really bad at about two weeks and then it subsides. Many relapses in the past were at this point. Another really trying time from quitting synthetics is around the two month mark as well. Not sure why, or what any of this means, just passing on the info.

Posted by: DAC July 17, 2013, 12:21 PM
Synthetics induce shallow sleep. People easily wake up during the R.E.M. stage which occurs every hour and a half to two hours. When awake it can be hard to fall back to sleep so we will just smoke a little more to help get back to sleep. But this perpetuates the problem, and the problem can last for months after quitting. For me, this was the hardest obstacle to overcome in quitting them altogether.

Bad sleep = depression

Posted by: DAC August 4, 2013, 2:08 PM
Be prepared to go on an emotional roller coaster when trying to quit. The anger, irritability, and impatience with life is an almost certainty during the first week. I believe this is why people find it so hard to get past the first couple of days. The physical part isnt as bad as it may sound. But being angry, depressed, and unstable when you first quit combined with the physical downside is really a lot to handle if not prepared. Get through the first 24 hours and you have made much progress. Get through 3 days and you've overcome the worst of it. Get to a week and the physical will be gone. Now you will feel more in control and will experience a 'quit euphoria' that can last for a week or two. But then, be prepared for the mental battles that will be constant. Once the quit euphoria is over you may start wondering why you quit in the first place. Be careful at this point because it might sound OK to just 'smoke a little'. If you do you will just have to start all over again......but with less resolve to stay sober long-term. This is where I am at now after multiple stops. Two weeks, a month, and two months seem to be relapse points for me. The problem for me is that I dont see it as the problem I once did. I know how to put it away for a time, and hopefully I wont be afforded the possibility of another relapse. But if I do I hope I can get to the point where the desire is so little I stay away for good.

Posted by: DAC August 7, 2013, 11:26 AM
There are many videos of people having bad trips while on spice on youtube. I watched a couple of these the other day and really couldnt identify. But I read that there are some 250 different combinations that are currently being sold. When you consider that only 5 chemicals have been banned - you can see the problem. No-one really knows what is one batch from another , let alone what the differences are between the brands. On top of this , many bags have 'hot spots' because of the mixing process which can make one hit super powerful , while the next hit does very little.

Check out some of these videos and you will see people acting VERY wierd!

Posted by: DAC August 13, 2013, 12:56 AM
Having a goal you dont want to compromise is a very powerful tool in combating compulsive behavior. I have driven past the gas station that still sells the synthetic several times without much of any temptation at all. Today I drove past and forgot to even look over at it!

Posted by: DAC August 18, 2013, 12:31 PM
Another theory about the synthetic and why it messes with sleep. If , like marijuana, the synthetic suppresses adrenaline. And once you stop the adrenaline will flood back causing brief periods of anger, and also restlessness at night. Then when you consider that the synthetic is 20 - 800 times as strong as marijauna it makes sense that this adrenaline surge would be greatly exaggerated with the synthetic.

If the actual high last an average of 30 minutes and you are smoking really strong synthetic , then when the high wears off the adrenaline comes back full force. So if you use this drug to sleep,it will put you to sleep. Then , when the adrenaline surge happens it affects your dreams, making them really intense and vivid. The result is you will wake up every 1 1/2 to 2 hours as a result because you cannot achieve deep sleep with your body running off of adrenaline. So then you smoke more, and the process will just repeat itself all night long depriving you of much needed rest.

The last synthetic I smoked was really strong , and I smoked it with a really low tolerance. Even after a short 8 day stint I was awaking every hour! Sometimes 7 and 8 times a night!! Because marijuana was so much weaker by comparison, when I smoked pot I would sleep like the dead. The adrenaline surge with MJ was much weaker and it didnt really affect me much til days after I quit , and even then it was just not that bad.

But if you keep running on adrenaline for extended periods of time you will experience the same problems that soldiers do when they are in combat situations for a really long time. You start to crack! Our bodies are not designed to run at such a high level for extended periods. When we do it takes its toll. Mentally and physically!

Just more theories...

Posted by: Matt August 28, 2013, 8:55 PM
hi everyone,im so glad to see this site and lucky my wife found it for me,im on day 6 and find the worst symptoms are not sleeping,ive prolly have 5-6 since i quit,i do find the lose of appetite as well is annoying as want to eat,feel hungry but even a kids meal is to big to look at.Im blessed to be in a part time job i love working 7.30-midday which is really helpful as i think full days of unemployment i couldnt do it.I have heard around day 19 is the worst,i find my moods are that bad hopefully they arnt,i find i am burying myself into trying positive things like getting into politics and trying think of ideas and work in help my local community.I had been a 20yr pot smoker and managed to quit that until a friend brought the imitation weed around and since it was legal,i didnt think it would be worse the pot,but now regret ever touching it,and after talking to healthcare workers am so upset that our government actually lets this stuff get sold.The manufacturers are evil and making money of peoples misery and destroying families and i actually hate the people who sell it.I have a friend who has no intention of quitting and loves the intense hit and is a heavier smoker than I was.I have avoided him as i never ever want to touch it again.Again I would like to thank everyone for this site as its tough as hell to keep positive sometimes and sometimes i just want to go "screw it,lets go buy some" but i wont and will never again.

Posted by: DAC August 28, 2013, 11:30 PM

If you are on day 6 you are doing very well. The sleep thing does suck, but just know that the more you smoke the synthetic the worse that will get. So stopping should slowly bring that back to where you can get some rest.

Eat fruit, get lots of liquids, and stay busy. You are already doing so many of the things that will speed up your recovery. Staying involved with people, working, and most importantly staying positive. Develop good habits and you will find quitting easier. You will have mood swings, just dont start thinking of the quick fix to solve these. Stay committed to the long term!

Posted by: Jen September 6, 2013, 6:14 PM
I have been reading a lot of these posts and they are really helping me. I have all the withdrawal symptoms you talk about every time I've tried to quit or have run out. I get severe rectal bleeding. Or I don't know if that is what you'd call it. Anyway, it feels like I am going to have diarrhea and instead of feces, it is the most horrifying amount of blood. This will continue until I get more and then it goes away as if by magic. Does anyone else have this? This is what is scaring me about coming off. I had planned to quit in a few more days (I couldn't just quit and get sick I have responsibilities). Very ironically, everything is setup and ready for this, but now just today the cops shut the shop down. Now, I am going to have to deal with these withdrawals before I have my support in place. I am REALLY scared that I will die trying to come off because of the bleeding. I would feel stronger to know that this is a symptom others have experienced. Thank you everybody for sharing! You don't know how much this is helping me!

Posted by: Guest October 12, 2013, 10:55 PM
Here's my two cents worth. Mother of 3 under 7, husband has been smoking this GARBAGE for weeks. He started using this synthetic to pass drug tests at work. Little did he know he might as well be smoking METH. NOTHING like marijuana, not natural, ALL CHEMICALS. Now me n kids suffer pure HELL as he tries to quit. Nastiest, mean prick you can imagine. Unreal the pain and suffering it has caused this family. It's chemicals people, chemicals like acetone, wake up...

Posted by: Chris October 14, 2013, 3:50 PM
Thanks for the survival kit Josh. This stuff is serious, I want to quit so bad that I hope the store selling get caught for the illegal sale. Every time I turn around I am need of synthetic. On Day 2 , can't keep food down, hot and cold at the same time. I know where I can get weed everyday but I started synthetic so a drug test won't ding me. Weed was not this hard to stop! What is this ish doing to our bodies? HELP I AM SUFFERING!

Posted by: DAC October 17, 2013, 12:41 PM

You are right when you say the synthetic is not weed. It really is not much like weed at all when you really look at what this drug does to your personality and behavior. Pot isnt really addictive physically, the synthetic is VERY addictive. The synthetic will also mess with your sleep , increase the depression you feel when quitting, and will make the mental temptations to resume use very hard to resist.

There are tips to deal with the suffering , but the only thing to do in order to get better is to just stop smoking it. I am lucky that it is illegal in my state. I have only smoked about 5 grams in the last 8 months now and in a lot of ways I can tell a huge difference in my thinking from when I really tried to quit for good in February. I dont get as upset - or depressed - or as anxious about the problems I face. When smoking? I would have told you that is calmed me down, put me in a good mood, and made the problems easier to deal with......the exact opposite of reality!

Many of us had a lot of experience with marijuana and thought we knew what we were doing when we smoked the synthetic. And most of us have found out the hard way that it is not the same drug at all. The synthetic will produce acute psychosis when smoked a lot. This goes away after use, but when smoking it will make ordinary problems seem overwhelming.....not when you are smoking - but when you are sober and realize the severity of the problem.

I used to thing there were positives about smoking. I didnt know , and still dont, what chemicals were actually in the stuff I was smoking. I've heard everything from acetone, nail polish remover, and many other things you would never knowingly smoke if you knew it was there.

Just know that a relapse wont fix the mental duress you are under. It will only make it worse - so stay away from it!

Posted by: JMLaw October 27, 2013, 9:20 PM
I am not too sure whether this thread is still active, but it doesn’t really matter.

After reading through the posts and replies on this thread, I am glad there are some similar stories and situations which are helping to open my eyes a little wider.

I am 29 and have smoked weed consistently since I was around 17. I have been smoking synthetics pretty much every day for the past 2 – 3 years. The only time I have had a break from getting high is when I go on holiday, where I would experience no withdrawals (perhaps because my mind was kept busy away from temptation).

I have been smoking like a trooper, 30 joints a day, like I am invincible. I always saw myself as a ‘highly functional user’. Fit, healthy, no worries in the world, laid back, love life for what it is, every problem is a ‘first world’ problem and thinking everyone needs to see the greener side of life.

I have always been employed, earned my own money, never borrowed, graduated from university, enjoy reading, listening to music, playing sports – basically enjoy everything in life.
The negative; everything I do or have done in my twenties, has been done stoned or very close to it.

I was a late bloomer, didn’t finish high school, but went to university as a mature age student. I studied stoned, completed my University exams stoned, I would have a joint before, during and after work. I would have a joint while ‘resting’ in-between exercise sets.

I actually can’t remember life not stoned. In the last 10 years I cannot remember having more than 2 weeks off.

The only person who knows how long it’s been going on for is my partner of 9 years. Unfortunately, I have sucked her into my stoned life and I am pretty sure she is at her wits end with it as well.

I am now becoming a serial ‘piker’ because I cancel plans last minute to stay home and get stoned rather than socialise.

I have tried to quit around 5 times in the past month, I have yet to succeed in taking a day off. I always find an excuse to buy more. I will purposefully start an argument with my partner just so I have an excuse to buy some so that I ‘calm down’.

I have bought bags, smoked a cone or a joint and chucked it away thinking that all I needed was one hit. One hour later I would be back at the shop for more, or rummaging through the bin or sink pipes to save what was thrown.

I hope that one day I will go to the smoke shop and they tell me they no longer sell it. Easy way out? Yes. I live a 5 minute walk from the shop that sells it.

I guess this post is more about reflection, the feeling that I am coming close to kicking this bad habit, eliminating it from my life.

But how can I kick something that I actually enjoy?
more-so,Do I actually enjoy it? or is it just part of the addiction telling me I enjoy it?

I can’t remember the last time I had a day off getting high.

One of the biggest fears I have is that I don’t actually know my non-stoned self, I can’t remember him.

I hope that before I reach 30 I find him again, start afresh and live a life of real fulfillment.

I respect all of you that have quit and succeeded and I wish the best to those that are still trying.

Hopefully I can succeed and post again to let you know how it all went.

Cheers for reading.

Posted by: DAC October 30, 2013, 1:59 AM

I am 46 now, but my twenties were a big blur to me as well. I too was very functional when high, took exams while stoned, even maintained a B average while doing so. But what started out as something social quickly isolated me in many of the ways you have described.

The problems with the synthetic were not as bad while I was smoking it. The real trouble seemed to be in the weeks and even months following the cessation of my most extreme use. The synthetic is a different ballgame from mj. I still dont really consider myself 'addicted' to pot because I can put it away for weeks and months and even years if I really want to. I have done this many times over the years. And for a long-term pot smoker who gets entwined in the synthetic nightmare? Pot actually helped smooth out the long term withdrawals.

The synthetic is illegal where I live, has been since July. But I actually know a 'manufacturer' of the stuff they sell in the gas stations - through a friend. He said that he once had to mix a batch quick because of high demand, and he didnt let it dry thoroughly. He said the synthetic disolved the ink on the bag....Because it is unregulated they take a lot of shortcuts - you really should stay away from the synthetic at all costs. No telling WHAT is really in this poison!

Its the habits that are hard to break....Get high to eat, get high to watch a movie, get high to work....etc. Breaking free of the mental dependence is much harder than the physical addiction. But even when smoking the most, I could stop for a day or two (failed attempts to quit) fairly often.

Do what you can to quit. Even if you have to compromise by smoking some Mj during this time, you need to get away from the synthetic. You are playing russian roulette with your mind!

let us know how it goes

Posted by: rain316 November 21, 2013, 1:17 PM
my husband is tyring to stop smoking, as a wife what can i do to help him overcome this. im dealt with him like this for the past 2 years and im just ready to throw in the towel but i dont see myself giving up hime.

Posted by: joe joe November 22, 2013, 12:48 PM
I am an addict and a half. All of these symptoms I am having. All the stuff that goes along with going to get it and having it all the time. I am scared, sick, alone, tired, totally fed up with being fed up; My stomach is killing me and my body feels numb and tight and my sex life, which used to amazing is GONE I have a large p**** and it is gone, won't get up cuz of the spice. I'm scared everyone.

Posted by: NeedHelp November 27, 2013, 11:42 PM
Tonight is the first night that I have ran out of synthetic weed. I have been on it for about a year and a half. I am worried about my health but will say anything to justify it. I want it so bad. My boyfriend is the one who gets it for me and my mom doesn't like him, but she doesn't know we are on it. I smoke cigarettes too. She caught me once and I was supposed to quit… I need help with my addiction but I make it sound like its no big deal.. It's only getting high.. No. Its going to kill me. Help?

Posted by: DAC November 29, 2013, 1:52 PM

Quitting spice is not easy, or comfortable, but most of the physical discomfort subsides after 3-4 days. Just know that if you dont like how you feel now it will be worse if you put it off til later. If you have smoked nonstop the last year and a half you will experience fever, upset stomach, headaches, vivid dreams. You will have no appetite whatsoever. One thing that I relied upon was reading about addiction and coming to this site and writing what I observed. I think the act of writing things out helps to clarify your convictions.

Posted by: Tristan December 1, 2013, 6:33 PM
Hi. I was wondering after quitting were any of u guys dizzy and weak at all?

Posted by: LeeLeex2 December 1, 2013, 7:23 PM
My husband found this site for me because after over 4years I am quitting for good.

Its great to see DAC and others come back and continue to share. I hope to do the same but now just have to start this journey. I'm getting my survival kit together and I'm scared as Hell but I know I have to do this. I start at midnight.

Posted by: LeeLeex2 December 1, 2013, 7:27 PM
Tristan. When I ran out I would get weak and have awful stomach cramps. I haven't completely stopped yet I'm setting today as my last day to use. I'm scared but have my husband.

Posted by: DAC December 2, 2013, 2:05 PM
The stomach cramps, fever, and diahrea all go away after 3-4 days. You will still not feel GOOD at that point , but it shoud be manageable. Once you go a couple of days without eating much you will start to develop normal cycles again. After a week you should be able to eat fairly normally again. Withdrawals are like getting a case of the flu. Just make sure once you recover from the 'flu' you dont get 'sick' again.

Posted by: LeeLeex2 December 3, 2013, 6:54 AM
Made it through day1. Not really awful physically but mental. I had to pass the store I bought from and it was hard. I mostly used in my bedroom so I moved outta there until I'm stronger. Got chillow (as seen on tv) for sweats, but havent really had any yet. I can smell spice/k2 (whatever u wanna call it) on everything that comes out of bedroom. My husband has been my absolute ROCK!! I know I'm bitchy but he just brushes it off an keeps helping me. I'm still scared but I know I have to do this. Still not sleeping well but I do use natural sleep aids until I get through this. Appetite sucks but I got soup. I got joshs survival kit and ready for battle. I'll post when I can. Is anyone else quitting now. Love to hear about it. This site helps so much. DAC thanks for keeping up and all ur advice.

Posted by: synthetic warrior December 4, 2013, 2:13 PM
Reading through this has helped so much truly grateful. Im on day 6 now of giving up this man made devils drug and its the hardest thing ive ever had to do the 1st 3 days defiantly being the worse no sleep at all constant cold sweats but my biggest problem is the anxiety that wont seem to budge even on day 6 can anyone shed some light at to when this horrible feeling will go ive been signed off for 2 weeks but if the anxiety doesnt go i really dont think i could ever face going back to work im really scared ive done permanent damage. Ive always seen myself as a confident person but thismorning failed to even take my fog out due to my anxiety levels

Posted by: LeeLeex2 December 4, 2013, 7:27 PM
Synthetic warrior

I am on day 3 and to be honest I was blessed not to go thru the expected withdrawal symptoms. I was prepared but had none of the nausea (yet). My appetite is still down and I'm lucky to sleep a few hours a night but I can deal with those things. Please remember the amount of money wasted on this BS! The symptoms are NOTHING compared to the clarity of life.

I smoked for over 4 years and daily for at least the last 2 years. I'm so lucky the stuff didn't kill me. I knew I had to get off this stuff. My husband continues to be my rock and keeps building me up and telling me how proud he is and reminds me of the destructive path I was on. I have pictures ofmy kids/family to keep me strong too. My oldest daughter is pregnant with twins (my first grands) and I know I wanna be sober for them. They are due in April. That keeps me grounded. I think a good support system is very important.

I definitely have some depression but I got a prescription for anti depressants and started them before I quit so hopefully they will take the edge off. I have the mood swings but my husband expected that (from posts on this site) and he brushes them off.

My biggest fear is relapse especially because I haven't had the awful withdrawals. This scares me all day everyday. I have no craving for the stuff but I can't shake the fear. I'm gonna keep coming to this website because it REALLY helps. I'll continue to pray for us as we take this journey. Good luck and you are much stronger than you think

Posted by: its me December 11, 2013, 1:37 AM
Well I guess I give the posting stuff a try I'm on day 2 right now and considered going to the hospital mainly because I didn't know I was suffering from withdrawals. I.started out smoking weed until I started working and got random drug screens. I've been smoking the fake for roughly 5 years now and its just recently things got out of hand because I can afford for it to get out of hand now. I was smoking over 10gs a week for a little more the 10 months now. It got to point to were I would wake up in the middle of night and have to smoke to go back to sleep. I never realized I was addicted until now. I never gave myself the chance to be sober long enough to get the withdrawals. All I can do now is fight not to relapse and im looking forward to becoming that active energetic person I used to be

Posted by: bigchef68 December 12, 2013, 1:31 AM
I just found this site tonight and wished I would have found it much sooner. I graduated college in the 60's but never did weed, thought it was nasty. Later on I tried but it never worked. Fast forward to my 60's and I have back problem and taking pain killers. Knowing your not suppose to drink alcohol with pain killers I decided to try Marijuana. I did that for about three years until my work place started drug testing. I switched over to synthetics in 2008. I have been using this fake crap mostly all of 5 years, I did quit three times but went back two months after each time. The first time I went through HELL withdrawels symptoms. The next time is was so easy I told my wife, I can do this easy, quit any time I want. When I wanted to stop eight months ago I couldn't, it took me until now to do it again.
I am pleased to say I have made it through day three. I can share more with anyone who wants more info. I am a 68, retired, and have very supportive wife.

Posted by: MacquariaAmbigua December 14, 2013, 5:29 AM
Hi everyone. I'm a 28 year old aussie male and have just recently quit synthetics. I have been on and off (but mainly on) smoking the stuff for around 19 months now. Quit a few times but never for more than a few days. At one stage I passed the cold sweats and so on and felt amazing,but I caved in and went back to the smoke shop. Well anyway,the stuff I have been smoking the past few months is labelled "amsterdam columbian gold,cotton candy". I have spent 1000s of dollars on this junk. While working I was stopping it at night,then battling the withdrawals through each 8 -10 hour work shift as a fitter and turner. Needless to say it was a stupid and dangerous thing to be doing. But I'm at least acknowledging it now. I'm on day 3 without using. Have been tempted,but I have none. I smashed my smoking devices,and flushed every single trace of the stuff I had laying around. The air in my room is thick with the odour of it. It's quite disgusting. I've been living like a complete slob for over a year at least. Not just my room,but my car as well. Everything is a mess. At the moment I am in too poor a state to address that,but the time will come. I've had so many ups and downs for these 3 days but to be honest for some reason I'm not tempted at all. I'm more than willing to sit through this hell until it blows over. My main concern has been the hot/cold sweats. I have been sweating profusely. My palms are permanently wet. And I formerly did a lot of fishing,mountain/rock/ice climbing and all sorts of things,despite my then 60kg frame. I'm now hovering around 50. My face is gaunt,my legs have lost so much muscle tissue that I cannot walk properly unless I wear a pair of my north face ice boots for support. I get the odd cramp or gurgle coming from my stomach every so often,sometimes a light headache and a bit of nausea. I'm past the terrible diarrhea now. Eating what I can. Today I've consumed 4 or 5 puree baby food squeeze packs,2 bananas,a few small tins of tuna in brine,a few pieces of cheese,some watermelon slices,a lot of fluids,gastrolyte,sustagen etc. I'm on a very light dose of Temazepam which I know can be a nasty medication,so I wont take it much more than another day or two. (Started dosage 2 days ago) At the moment everything is bothering me. I've had many a rage outburst,then cooled off,only to go off my top again. To keep myself occupied I have been watching plenty of movies and mountain climbing docos and so forth. I've virtually shut myself off from the outside world for a while. Lost a few friends in the process,but also lost a few that I need to lose if you know what I mean. I could so very easily just lay in bed and give up on myself,but I don't want to die there is no way I could put my family through that. I have too much to live for. It's sad looking in the mirror at a young man who was once happy as larry and employed. I was made redundant a month ago and of course that set the ball rolling for the smoking to really fire up. All gone now. It's great to see others tackling this horrible beast. This is by far the most difficult challenge I have faced. And I have scaled some nasty faces in my time. I hope to share the recovery experience with you all and I'm so wrapped that I found this forum. Cheers.

Posted by: Johnny gas well January 1, 2014, 10:05 PM
Hi my names john from pa startin synthetic as a substitute for weed when out of college
I guess the availability of synthetics gave me a false sense that they must be safe I've literally told cops I got a receipt ain't nothing illegal about it

But do not mistake it's availability as a safe legal alternative to marry jane

There is nothing safe about synthetic weed people have allergic reactions to the chemicals in the s*** , I'm not personally allergic to any that I've smoked yet but I've seen people take one hit and go directly to hospital via ambulance

I just found this site today first of 14' because my resolution Is to quit smoking synthetic which I've tried with no luck to this point

Never did any real drugs to withdraw from but fake or synthetic withdraws are worse than withdraw from opiates from what people say

Need help / advice please anyone

Posted by: sanchez2384 January 6, 2014, 2:48 PM
I have been using synthetic for 2 years now smoking almost every day and at first I could make a gram last a week but now I go through 3 grams every day . the hardest part for me is that my girlfriend is a heroine addict and shes trying to quit and she feels like the synth helps with heroine withdrawals. So even when I try and quit I use her as an excuse to go get more because I feel I'm helping her out and its just a vicious cycle. I'm at the end of my road and I want a better life for us both and our child. Anyone who feels they can relate or give me some advice on how to deal with this situation please I need your help. I don't want one of our lives to end too early my son deserves both of his parents in his life. Thank you hope to hear back from somebody.

Posted by: Trebor January 7, 2014, 12:26 PM
I wish I would have never discovered this junk. It's no good! Been smoking Bizarro and I'm always sick & broke. Suffering from bronchitis & attempting day 1. I actually feel better & am eager to get this monkey off my back. Started reading my Big Book and ready to be sober.

I'm scared to death about the damage and the withdrawal process! Pray for me!

Posted by: The wife January 7, 2014, 10:53 PM
My husband is on day 2, well does it count if he still smoked a little today? I guess not , right? Well anyhow, I've found this site very helpful in learning how to understand him n what n why he's been NOT HIMSELF for the past few months! I just want my old husband back and I will do anything to help him get over this, I hate that glazed looked in his eyes after eyes gotten high, I hate the smell, and I HATE HOW IT HAS BECOME HIS EVERYTHING!!! I know he loves us but there's just an emotional detachment, he's decided to quit, day 1 was mixed with crying, screaming, him punching himself, and just complete frustration, day 2 well he he smoked nothing close to anything he was doing on a daily bases, he's been knocked out on sleeping aid medicine the vomiting has started, he's talking in his sleep as if he's really having conversations with people! He picked up a phone (it was nothing) and said hello? And was as if somebody was really answering him in his head! Crazy stuff! As he lays here asleep I can't help but examin his body and just witness how demon of a drug has sucked the life out of him!

What can I expect tomorrow????

Posted by: NewOrleansDevil January 9, 2014, 3:33 PM
Im on day 4 also. its Jan9th at 1:30pm. And this page hit the nail on the head. I removed myself frm the area where private dealers and stores are selling and I feel fukin amazing ('scuse my cajun lingo). Im happy. kinda have alittle apetite. the depression and mood swings wede alotto hamdle. but thank the Devil I had the love a clean sober woman to help me. Thanks for these posts. f*** all this synth s***. its for the birds. bak to wat i love to do. cook, and play music and a few beers to relax in the evenimg as apposed to smoking all day and all night and not feeling "myself" if I didnt. Death to all who package this ahit thats killng us and our nations youth. they should be ashamed to even collect the 100s of thousands of dollars they make to screw our brains up. thank you guys and heres to a cleaner life! Cheers *pops the top of a Miller Lite****

Posted by: Mandy January 10, 2014, 8:52 PM
Are there any currently active message boards like this one?

Posted by: Mandy January 10, 2014, 8:57 PM
Apologies... I found the scroll bar.

I had no idea that there is a whole world of people out there feeling this way. I thought what kind of idiot gets addicted to something that you can buy over the counter that is "legal"? Reading through everything here is a very strange feeling. It's a bit disheartening to come to terms with the fact that you're an actual addict. I thought getting sick when I ran out was just a coincidence but I didn't stop and I almost lost my life. I spent two weeks in the hospital with kidneys that were about to fail and when I came out of the hospital I was pretty much back to normal and I made the choice to leave it alone...and for a long time I did, but then they came out with something new that didn't seem as harmful... and I'm afraid of being in that boat again. Actually... I guess I need to be honest and say, I am in that boat again. This is hard... I just had no idea others were addicted to this to this degree.

Posted by: tonu jones January 15, 2014, 12:42 AM
Mandy im on day 2 and trust me it will get better, im going through the withdrawals right now and it is hard but you have to be strong. i forced myself to go run today and was sweating like i have never before but after that i felt a little better but then BAM! the withdrawal kicked in and i was vomiting all over the place, the hot/cold flashes are still there but they have gotten better. i am thinking about actually starting a petition so that the government actually bans this for good because this stuff is readily available everywhere which is pretty surprising because of the damage it is doing to everyone. hang in there people and lets defeat this DEVIL once and for all.

Posted by: nick January 23, 2014, 2:30 PM
I have been smoking a lot of synthetic lately. As soon as it wears off I light up again. It's becoming my whole life. I can't even met a new person without wanting to light up and I end up do. Even at work I come up with excuses like, I have a very important phone call to make and I go light up. Every single chance I get I light up. Even when I get up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom I freaking light up... My kids even found my pipe and asked what it was. I want to quit but I can't stop. As soon as I try to stop I get a horrible headache and I feel nauseous and that's only after like 6 hours. I spend all my money on it. I'm to the smoke shop at least once a day, sometimes twice. I'm smoking about 8-12 grams a day. Not to be nasty or nothing but I'm even having sex with chicks who has their hands in the synthetic world just to get free smoke. I'm not complaining on that part at all but I'm doing it for the smoke. And that's what become important to me. Can anybody please offer me some advice on how to just stop. And it seems like every time I actually say this is it and finish smoking what I got, somebody brings me 10 grams for free and tells me to try it. I know I'm an addict, I know this... I have been addicted to almost everything and have knocked all that but I guess I have turned to this and now there is nowhere to turn to... People told me to start drinking but I can't because I kicked a case a day beer habit that overcame my life. I can't smoke weed cause of urine screens. Can't do pills cause I kicked that thank god... I know it seems like I'm just replacing and I guess I am but I need off this stuff. I love it, I actually love egetting high but it taking over everything. I don't know what to do. I would go to detox but I would lose my job. I can't even get away from it...Everybody at work does it and does it all day, all my friends do it, my brother, my chicks so it, my neighbor, the people I car pool with... Please help me with a solution to just be able to stop and stay off, fight the headaches and neausea, keep my mind off of it, stay away and whatever else anybody can help me with... And did I mention its everywhere??? I even went to fix my curtains because they were crooked and I found 3 bags of smoke with about 15 grams in them that I forgot about... It's everywhere.... Thank you for reading and hopefully understanding and most importantly your advice and help. If you want you can even email me because I'm unsure if I will even be able to access this site again.  PLEASE HELP ME!!! AND PLEASE HELP SOON!!!

Posted by: lildizzy January 26, 2014, 7:54 AM
I just had to stop in and give my story, I'm a 16 yr. Old male from Florida, I've been smoking "weed" for a while now and never really liked "legal". I would smoke weed all day everyday to escape my problems, until recently one of fake smoking friends started coming over everyday while he was smoking the fake like I smoked real. After a couple days I got use to the high and started liking it, about a week later I didn't wanna stop. Now here I am about a month later and I smoke every 15-30 minutes all day everyday. I go to sleep at night just to wake up an hour later and smoke, it seems like all my life consists of now is smoking legal, I just wanna be high on life again.

Posted by: sarah January 29, 2014, 5:25 AM
My boyfriend directed me to this site a few hours ago. Im typing on my phone so bear with me.... I have been using for 5 years straight. 2009 I stared smoking this stuff called Deep Space and I loved out it basicaly just passed me out... I have ptsd and im bipolar. Weed was great but it was so nice to finally find something pretty much like ether.....couple of hits and im gooooone........ well three days ago I lost my business. I ran an extremely succesful grooming business with a five star rating with over one hundred reviews.....but I didnt acknowledge the fact that it was because I had employees and family to help me..... but they all eventually became fed up with me being unreliable and kind of a b**** that they all left.... after i became too overwhelmed on my own...I literally laid in bed and smoked for two weeks and just ignoring my shop. Im on day two.... im so heartbroken and mad at myself. 5 effing years down the drain...21 to 26.... I've lost so many friends and ive alienated my whole family. They want to help but this is totally out of their jurisdiction. ....they dont know what to do and theyre extremely negative.... my boyfriend has stepped in and is just trying to keep me in a positivy bubble for the next few days and hes been bombarding me with links to help....
Ive qualified for a psychiatric support dog, so hopefully once I get her ill be able to cope a little better. Got my first therapy appointment tomorrow...

Posted by: feelmypain January 29, 2014, 9:49 PM
I am also trapped in the synthetic weed trap,,,I want desperately to be free from this devils bondage...It seems only those who have walked in my shoes know the true helpless feeling of not being able to "just quit".I tell them its not that simple but they are clueless to the type of hold that this stuff has on me...I have told myself a million times that I quit,yet a million times I've lied...I hope that I will be able to find the support,motivation and encouragement on this site as I prepare to end this habit once and for all.I welcome any helpful advice from those who have been successful....

Posted by: Ben February 3, 2014, 12:28 AM
First day without the garbage. I'm smoking weed to take off the edge and I've been looking at treatment websites. I've lost motivation to do much and I keep thinking about going to get more this synthetic garbage. I'm also thinking to hang out so I can meet new partiers, because most of my true are just into hot and Molly and other traditional drugs that we all use to enjoy.

Life totally sucks. The goals that I had last year seem like a century ago. Years clean and sober seem like another life. Family and most friends gone except for hardcore stoners and fellow drug addicts.

I still have my house and belongs for now, but I imagine they will go to and all of my savings if I don't stop this stuff. I'm no longer into the god trip, which used to be such a big part of my life , so I'm going to have to find an alternative the 12 steps cuz I won't go back around those tables.

I'm a hot mess and just motivated enough to scout these boards and try to find a reason why I should save my stuff and myself from this Prison that the synthetic product has become. I've been a functional addict longer than many of you 20 somethings have been alive. Maintain home and family and did not end up in financial disaster, but managed both a comfortable life and career and a and controlled addiction until I met these synthetic products. Now I all I want to do is sit there in the zone and feel nothing, be nothing. The buzz, the junkie, wateoid

Posted by: Ben February 3, 2014, 6:01 AM
It's just after 3 AM. It's been a little over 24 hours since my friend and his girlfriend took away my packages of Synthetics and brought me supplies for my cold turkey withdrawals. God, I want to go to the f**king store and buy more even though I just lost the money on the previous ones that Bry through out for me. I shoukl be asleep. I've got work in the morning.

I've akready broken my "rules" about pot. In dealing with getting off the synthetics, I've gotten really,really hgigh on marikuana longer and later than Z usually would with work in the mornign
I can barely see the screen clearly even with my glasses on.

I'm thankful that the little head shop where I get this crap is closed. Feeling wired and very shaky.
I cleaned out my pipes and chillums thourghly with that popular blue liquid and crystal pipe cleaner so I;n assuming that my extreme stoned feeling is from the amount of high quality bud that I smoled today unless ,some of the synthetic somee how spilled into the natural. Really WASTED on Natural as far as I know, but still feeling the damn vravings for the other Stuff (synthetic) and stomigh problems, etc. that people have talked about early in this thread.'

I want to BEAT this and just go back to my weed and occasional psychedelics. I know, like evwery addict I know, I want what I want when I want it ands how I want it. Hradache fairly severe. very brry blurred vision/. hard to type whch is strange for me conssiderong what I dofor a lviing. Cotton mouth, the runs (earlier) with bleeding, dizzyness beyonf ehat's noprmal with a natural pot high.

Note - This is after a RELAPSE rather than constant use over years. This is not as bad as thelast time I dealt with this, but that was in a hospital detox setting. This, on the other hand, is in my living room. I've ridden many ponies over the years but this is the worst.

I tied all of the substances thought to be amonhg the most difficultfrom which to recover, "Tina" (Crystal Meth), Crack and Coke and was able to stop themall., None has a grip like this s***. Nothing.

I dont know if the addiction is psychological, physological or both. We -- those of ud crazy enough or, for newbies, naive enough to use this stuff -- just don't know enough about these chemicals thaat keep changing ever so slightly to get around the laws OR are seriously mislabeld. And even the now banned chemicals are new so even if we knoiw what we're actully smoking, there's not a lot of data...

I watched a BBC documentary in which a professor from one of the UK universities was saying that while he;'d rather all of us be clean anf sober, he'd much rather someone take real MDMA or LSD to these new chemicals, because at least the known illegal drugs have a great deal of study and they knw, generally, what to expect and how to deal with it, what the long term effects night be,

This is a nightmsare and my personality seems to have changed rapidly. I want ME back. This addiction has cost me too much already inn terms of money, lost friendsiips,wastedtime and I n still crave it. This is hell, this is insanity.

Going to try to sleep a bit.

Posted by: Ben February 3, 2014, 10:16 AM
Update: Feel like a truck ran over me. Vomiting, diarrhea, headache every time I move my head. Awful and I want to go "cure" it by getting more, but I am determined not to go when the store opens. I wish Bry had not grabbed all of the stuff and pitched it. Not that I could be trusted to keep it, but I wish I knew what the f*** it is that I've been smoking! Would love to be able to take it for anayalisis.

I cancelled my afternoon meeting with excuses about either food poisioning or stomich flu and I called my butler / houseman and told him the same thing. No need for them to see me going through these horrible withdrals, especially the Director of Marketing.

There won't be employment for these people and others, there won't be a company if I don't get a handle on this. Maybe it's time for a "vacation" somehwere while I deal with this, but everywhere near here is traditional social-support, 12 step model based or outpatient so I''ve ruled those out.

I don't know what the hell to do at this point except make it through today and not go buy more. If I need glassware or metalware, I'll go to the much more expensive head shop that refused ever to sell this stuff saying from the beginning, "It isn't natural and we think it's probably not safe."

Help, advice, something?

Posted by: Leroy February 8, 2014, 10:23 PM
I had been smoking Kush for more than two years every day. Glad to find this site. Just reached day three, still screwed up on eating, stomach hurts. Went to ER with symptoms and had to have an IV for dehydration. What other things can be done to overcome?

Posted by: Leroy February 8, 2014, 10:43 PM
Here's some help - bust out your vitamix or nutribullet or blender. When you can't eat, drinking is easier and it fills you up quick. Fruits, even frozen, with electrolyte replacements, vitamin c, veggies, etc., can really help. You can fix a shake in about 4.2 minutes and slam it. Also, go see your nutritionist. There are heavy metals and arsenic in this stuff, and some detox supplements can be very helpful in cleaning out your system.

Posted by: Barbie February 10, 2014, 2:45 PM
Well it all started about 2 and a half years ago. I tried syntho for the first time. I was a sophomore in high school and some friends introduced it to me. I had done marijuana before, a few different pills, but nothing too serious. I hit it 3 times in the backseat of my best friend's car and I thought I was dying. I was freaking out almost like a dream. I hated it and just wanted it to be over. You wouldn't try something you hated more than once right? Wrong. Over the next year or two I smoked synthetic when I could. I never actually went to buy it with my money or anything. It was just like if one of my friends had some id smoke with them. Then a few months ago I moved in with a friend of mine who I would've considered a "heavy smoker." We started smoking together, first not as much then progressively more and more. It was just something to do when we were bored. I thought this stuff was literally just a legal stronger version of weed. Boy was I wrong. This stuff is so addictive, i imagine this is what a crackhead feels like. Now 4 months later, this stuff has sunken it's claws so far into me. I get nauseated every couple hours without it and will start throwing up. Once I start puking, it almost seems nonstop. I puke, I leave the bathroom and literally 5 minutes later I'm back in there dry heaving and gagging because there's nothing left to come up but I cannot stop dry heaving and it really scares me. I know most people dealt with vomiting but I was just wondering did anyone have it so severe like me? It worries me and it makes my stomach muscles cramp up so bad from straining so much and my body starts to hurt and get weak. I get headaches, I absolutely canNOT eat without it. If I hadn't smoked within 20 or 30 min of me eating I have to smoke again just to be able to get any food down. I can't sleep without it. I wake up every couple hours at night and can't fall back asleep without it. It's all I think about. It's all I wanna do. Even typing this right now, all I want is to smoke. I've tried to stop but I've only made it one day then I cave because my cravings for one, and also I get scared I'm literally gonna kill myself on accident from violently puking for so many days. Someone please help or reply, I don't know what to do. I hate this stupid drug. I want out of this hell I'm in.

Posted by: tomnz February 15, 2014, 10:15 PM

Id like to start by saying thank you so much for this girlfriend and I live in new zealand and we also got sucked into the "its like weed, but legal" gimmick. Its been 9 days clean for us and there is no chance we will ever go back, even the thought repulses us. As you have 1 to 3 is hell...I got rushed to hospital with severe dehydration and it took 11 bags of fluid to get me back to normal. Shes almost back to her old self now, after using for just 6 months...but I have used daily for 2 years...and 9 days later I still can't eat, or make it 24 hours without vomiting. Any advice on this? Even water makes me want to vomit. Im struggling to keep hydrated and I dont know when/if it will ever be normal again and im scared it wont be....ive been drinking poweraid/gatoraid to keep my electorlites up but I cant seem to keep it down long enough to get properly hydrated. Im scared and can't see an end in sight.

Any advice would be great.

For every one else, stay strong and know that you can beat this

Posted by: Guest February 18, 2014, 8:39 AM
I am on day 4 and i still feel like i am goung to die. i am still not able to hold any thing down anf the mood swings r still there and i still want to go get it smoke it but i am trying my hardest not to i throw up every night every morning puddles of sweat at night and i just wish i new what to do this is the hardest addiction that i have ever tried to stop and it is whipping my as$ i still smell it crave it taste it i can't even go remotely close to the leag shop cuz i no what will happen with out ne even tring to so i pretty much have to make my self a prisner of my own house and work witch is not fair to iur selfs some one please give me some tips of how to stop this cuz i am on day 4 and all the temptations are still there !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Barbie February 19, 2014, 11:37 AM
It's me again and I am happy to say I've been off syntho for a week and I'm finally starting to feel my body going back to normal. I will agree the first day is TERRIBLE. the second and third day are pretty bad but not as bad, at least for me. By the fourth day I was able to force myself to drink chicken noodle soup juice. The first 3 days I slept in total, maybe 4 hours. That was rough. I was so tired but the vomiting and nausea is what kept me up mostly. I still am no where near back to my normal eating habits but I've read some on here saying theirs weren't back to normal to about a month? In the morning, I wake up nauseous some still. I've thrown up the past 3 mornings but usually by lunchtime my stomach settles and I can eat a little something. Certain foods still gross me out, I can only eat certain things. For some reason I've been able to eat frosted flakes? Idk maybe that could help some of you! Also, the first few days are tough because it's like you're SO hungry but just the thought of swallowing something made me sick. I ended up making some fruit smoothies and those helped to fill me up but it was easier since I had to drink it instead of eat. I also recommend taking detox baths or drinking detox water to help remove the toxins out of your body quicker. Everyone please take my advice.... QUIT USING THIS DEMON DRUG! Its gonna be tough. It's gonna be hard. You're gonna have the worst cravings of your life. You might think you're gonna die. I definitely thought I was. I remember puking up blood at one point. But don't give up! Once you've started just remember, every second you feel like crap is one less second you'll ever feel that way again! You've got to just quit cold turkey. Get rid of it all. You have to come to terms with the fact that you HATE this drug and what it's made you become. I didn't wanna do anything without being high. That's not living. Also, God has helped me so much. Idk if y'all are religious but I promise you... I couldn't of made it through these days without Him! Pray and pray. When you get a craving, open a bible. It helps. I promise. God gives his toughest battles to his strongest soldiers. The devil tricked us all into thinking this was all fun and now he's laughing at us being miserable because of it. Let's fight back! Let's take back what he stole from us. He took my happiness and I refuse to let him have it any longer. That's why I will never go back. Do I still get some cravings? Yes. I'm emotional and any little thing can set off a craving but that's when I think to myself.. is that 20 minute high going to solve my problem? No. Maybe for those 20 minutes. But when I come down, the problem is still there and then I'm left fighting the addiction all over again. All I can say is, don't ever give up. I can't wait til the day this stuff is off the market for good! If anyone would like any more advice or just someone to help you through this, I will gladly do so! Remember I'm still fighting this too! I know I have a battle ahead but I'm ready to take it head on and fight. I'm sick of being weak and giving in. Be strong guys. I know we can all break this. Good luck, and every single one of you are in my prayers. God bless.

Posted by: Jordan February 23, 2014, 6:23 AM
I really felt the need to post something on one of these websites\forums. So here we go!

I know some of you reading this right now are smoking spice while others have quit and or is in the process of trying to quit. This will be more helpful to those that are still smoking it, or a loved one that smokes spice.

First I want to clearly make you understand this. This stuff is NO joke, this really should NOT be underestimated. This stuff will make you crazy and it WILL continue to consume your life, and no I don't mean your time in life but everything you know and everything you are will be no more.

I have been sober from spice for over two years now. I was a frequent marijuana smoker prior to being a spice smoker and had moved from a easy place to get marijuana to a place where it was extremely hard to get, and still feel that the only reason I picked this stuff up is because like all great tragedies in time I listened and trusted the words of another, and trusted that this stuff was Legal so it can't be that bad right? I mean I had smoked marijuana so many times and our government seems to treat that stuff like rape or murder and just didn't care about this spice stuff. Oh and did I mention this stuff is CHEAP? This drug is so easy to get addicted to and just keep going. I mean honestly we would have ALOT more people with cocaine addiction problems if it didn't cost so much. Like weed you can buy one bag about the size of a cigarette box for the same price as four same sized bags of spice.

Wait did I just say this stuff was legal let me say that again LEGAL and I can take a drug test and still get a job, remember its cheap and makes promises to make you feel good again and can distract you from all your pain. Why wouldn't you?

However the main problem is you, yes you! You are worth so much more than this I know life can hurt but this is NOT the way. Just like this drug changed you let you have the power to change this drug. We must stand up for ourselves not for others but for ourselves. Life is greater than anyone will ever know please don't take it for granted. This stuff is not like me or you, it is not forgiving it does not have life it does not feel joy it is jealous of what you have and wants to take it over. I know you are stronger than this drug because I was. I am what you are as you are what I am.

Remember none of us really understand life or death, not science or religion can explain as they pretend it cannot be described but it must be learned and if your smoking spice right now you never gonna learn you will always be letting something have power over you when really you have the power over EVERYTHING in life so lets enjoy our lives and take back control because you never really know what's going to happen in the end and that doesn't mean it has no meaning. Understanding is the key and you must be proud of who you are and the power you have because as lame as it sounds you honestly can do anything.

To anyone with big questions after smoking spice with death (from depression)and feel lost confused or scared please just CONSIDER the following:

I have had several questions in life but my biggest has always been death, when I was smoking spice the depression actually caused a flood of questions on this subject and I couldn't really understand it while I was high but after I got clean it all came together.

To feel you in I was raised Christian but as I grew older I drifted apart from this religion because I personally saw too many flaws and this is just my opinion and my thoughts on the matter this is by far not a bad way of life but just is not the best for me. I attended public schools I watched the same TV as you listened to the same radio shared the same air with you drove on the same streets as you felt the same joy and pain as you. I am not too different from you.

I founded my own religion and I call it jordanism because my name is Jordan and this is my belief and to me it is so simple and to me that's what religion should be. It took me awhile to get this but I figured out that faith should not be a question or have any doubt but should be a reaction. Reaction as in how your thought process works, how you react in conversations or in situations the things that separate right from wrong WITHOUT question.

Just know unlike other gods everyone is welcome in this kingdom for if I made you, and your thoughts were formed in a world I made you and I caused the existence of death I would save you I would show you the path to understanding I will truly forgive and save you with out the desire for such love. The main and only thing to this religion is What you think will happen in the afterlife will happen we all have our own the only way I can put it to you in an attempt to make you understand this would be like dreams that our custom to ourselves but yet we all have them, we all go to the same place yet have different dreams.

I know most will mot agree or will care about this subject on this particular form but for some of us these big questions are holding us back and sometimes another perspective can completely change yours and help you on your journey in this life.

These thoughts took away my depression and my anxiety I am no longer afraid I am no longer confused I no longer want to waste my time but use it wisely. I want to learn more and understand more. It has made me appreciate life more and in return making quitting drugs in my life and taking back control. Because just like in death and dreams life is what we make it.

I am still in the same life as all of you and in no way shape or form am I better than anyone else I just hope I can at least help one person in this life with the thoughts and knowledge I have acquired and admit I still have much to learn. I am only 25 and am thankful I made it this far and hope I have many more to come. I accept this as my religion as of this point and hope and am excited to think of and add new learned faiths as I grow in this life.

We are very blessed to be here and I can't wait to find out what happens at the end but until then I wish you the best in this life NO matter what you choose to do and who you are I love you and I'm excited for us to find the balance in life.

Posted by: Don February 27, 2014, 8:59 AM
Hi all,
Just wanted to say thanks for the info. I am on day two and this is as bad as you have indicated. All I can say now is that I am glad there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I only hope it's not a train coming the other way.

Posted by: momofrob March 3, 2014, 6:56 PM
I'm a mother of a 38 year old single man that is addicted to synthetic marijuana. I'm getting very concerned. 2 months ago, he had an auto accident that he doesn't remember. He was taken to the hospital by the police and charged with DUI. We haven't went to court yet, so don't know what will be happening about that.

Now he's had 3 more episodes of not knowing what has happened in the previous few minutes to hours.

He says he hasn't smoked anything for the last month to 6 weeks.

Has anyone else had these kind of problems? I'm not sure if it's related to the auto accident or the synthetic weed.

Posted by: Kj March 6, 2014, 8:34 PM
This thread helped both my husband and I get through the roughest days 1-3.... We are now on day 7 and very proud of how far we have come. We both smoked for over 2 years and have finally put the Demond to rest. I can honestly say I NEVER WANT TO TOUCH THIS STUFF AGAIN! This is a lot better than I was a week ago when I would have searched the house for any little bit I could get my hands on.

The survival tips posted here REALLY work... Because this helped us so much I wanted to add some other things we did to help as well.

FIRST- believe in yourself. This can be done you will suffer and want to smoked again but DONT DO IT!

I drank a lot of sprite to help with the nausea. That combined with emetrol helped keep the vomiting to a minimum.

It really helped that we never ordered online and we're very Leary of the sites that sold it so we mainly bought from the stores.

When we finally decided to quit we made sure we could no longer buy it at the store so we pretty much took away all access we had to the drug. (With all the legal restrictions it is really hard to find in stores now and it was becoming very risky as a lot of law enforcement started watching the stores).

If you are quitting at the same time as someone else in the house you will probably want to separate yourselves because the mood swings can be pretty bad. We are both surprised we pulled through without ruining our relationship because it is an emotional roller coaster and even the smallest thing can make you snap.

Keep yourself busy but remember you are not just feeling the withdrawals you are showing them as well. People who know you will see the roller coaster you are on so if you can it might be a good idea to take the first few days off of work unless you want coworkers or even worse, your boss asking what's going on.

I would be raging mad one minute and crying the next.

The final piece of advice I can give is read Josh's thread every time you feel like you can't take it anymore. It will give you the hope you need to pull through.

Josh, my husband and I both really appreciate your thread and can not thank you enough for sharing. The first time I read your thread I was smoking as I was reading... It gave the ambition to put it out and the hope that one day I will be able to say I have been away from spice for a full year. In just the seven days I can feel my body changing and even though I didn't realize it while I was smoking I was literally like a walking zombie... I feel like a human again and I can't believe the difference. You are an inspiration to us and have no idea how much you helped.

Posted by: Amy March 10, 2014, 3:45 AM
I wish I could talk to the girl who wrote the survival post I quit about a week ago and can relate to everything she has said sooooo miserable and pure hell need support!

Posted by: jane March 16, 2014, 3:50 AM
I am 4 days sober from the devil they call legal. I'm very proud of myself for going through this and making it 4 days. I was a heavy user for a year. What I want to know is if anyone else constantly sweat. I'll be sitting on the couch and bust into a pool of sweat. As I'm posting this, laying in bed, I'm sweating like crazy! When will this ever stop? I know I put myself in this position but dang! I'm tired of being a sweaty mess!

Posted by: Fellintotheblue March 17, 2014, 12:05 PM
Hi guys, I know this is an old post, but hey.

Today is day two only 3 hours into it. So aprox 3am
I started using it as a coping but more of a sleeping technique.
I have just smoked this for the last 2 years and I can't even remember my birthdays. I done the horrible thing of introducing this to people. HEY ITS LEGAL ITS FUN IT SAYS NON ADDICTIVE. Was I sucked in.My girlfriend smoked into we are both quitting just she is getting the withdrawal symptoms much worse, she is so angry constantly losing it. Any advice on how to help her get through this easier. I think me quitting will be fine. I just want to know what have I got to look forward to?
What will change in my life. Cause I feel that this s*** made no changes just I was happy sitting around doing nothing.

Posted by: Nick March 19, 2014, 6:35 PM
fellintotheblue - I am in the same situation with my girlfriend , except we arejust talking about stopping, as everytime we do one of us breaks like 5hours later.. any advice anyone. NEED TO STOP , sick of the vomiting, no sleep with out it, food making me feel nauseus, i want my life back... im 21 and i want to live.

Posted by: jdtoolmaker March 19, 2014, 7:03 PM
Hi All,

Well, I'm guessing I've come to the place to help me. Short story, been using synthetic cannabis for some time now, slowly got to more and more. Loosing my family, my job is noticing the effects, my friends are noticing. Only told a few people, I keep this hidden from my family. My wife thinks im smoking a bit of weed here and there, but she notices the smell but is oblivious as to what it actually is. I know I need to stop, but not sure if I am capable at this point.

Today is the first morning without it in a long time. I don't want to get more, but find it's way too easy to just go to tobacco shop and get some.

Will keep you posted on whether or not I can go on today without getting any, tobacco shop is open till 9pm so probably the hardest day to stop.


Posted by: Nick March 19, 2014, 11:40 PM
Good luck mate, i have just started, i will be along for this horrible journey with you . keep in touch.

Posted by: oy March 21, 2014, 11:29 AM
Ive been smoking synth for two years now on and off, pretty sure ive become anti social, lost my girlfriend. Smoke 1.5grams a day, I want to quit

Posted by: Rougaroo March 21, 2014, 12:08 PM
This is my first post after spending a week fighting this alone, throwing up yellow slime, pooping bile, nausea, insomnia, loss of appetite, hot flashes, constant showers and baths, benadryl to help sleep, and for the first few days to help with the coughing i used mucinex dm to also help sleep. Even on day 7 its still hard for me to have more than one solid whole meal a day. Im 25 and still lived at home up until last night when my mother and i fought all day. My mother is a great mom and i love her but shes an alcoholic and a verry negative person so i decided to go stay at my friend nates house whos beeen my best bud since 6th grade and doesnt do drugs drink or smoke and whos brother has been recovering from methodone addiction and looks like hes doing great after a year. so i felt this might be a bettter environment and a little more isolated from her. i was unemployed for 4 months all through the holidays. not because it was hard to find a job but because my #1 priority seemed to be fake weed. This is the first time ive quit and every single day i havent had the feeleing of relapse because the withdrawal symptoms have been so severe that i beleive my rational thinking has kicked in. ive been scared to google quitting synthetic weed out of fear that ive caused irreversible damage to my body and brain and over the first week here thats all i was thinking until i decided today to finally read these posts and i feel so releived that i might be able to quit and still have the oportunity to get myself healthy. i got a new job on monday. im using my tax check to stock up on whole non processed foods and getting a gym membership. my biggest concern i guess at this point is getting myself to eat again cause its been a week and ive barely been able to at all. i dont understand how anyone could relapse after going through what i have this week. the struggle i feel right now isnt the addiction just the withdrawal symptoms and emotional fragility like ill break down and cry at any moment our burst out in hot red anger the next. i see a long hard road ahead even on day 7 here. i was addicted to adderall up until 4 months ago when i finally made the rational decision to quit that. but before i was taking that and smoke synthetic weed and drinking red bull and caffeine and smoking a pack a day not to mention lifting weights every day for an entire year not doing any cardio. My body is not going to make this easy but im determined to live my life as healthy and normal and happy as possible from here on out.

Posted by: warriorz March 26, 2014, 6:19 PM
Hi all new guy hear. Been on this crap pretty consistently for 4 years, but I believe I'm ready to quit. I'm on day 4. Feel like s***, not eating, sweating, 2 hours sleep in three days, the runs, weakness and dizziness. As much as this stuff makes me feel good when I have it, I feel ten times worse when I finally run out. I gotta get off this stuff. If for no other reason than to go thru wd's again.

Posted by: warriorz March 26, 2014, 9:19 PM
Reading all these stories has definitely given me a wakeup call as well as the wd's the last couple of days. I really need to get off this stuff fast. As much as I love to be high, I do NOT want to feel like I have this week ever again. Very little sleep, rapid body temp changes, low appetite, anxiety, etc.

Posted by: Barbie March 27, 2014, 11:12 PM
Hey everyone it's me again and I'm happy to say I've been sober from this stuff for about a month and a half now and I feel GREAT. I can't believe I let this stuff take over my life and I didn't even realize how bad it was til I've been sober. I just wanna say trust me, if I can quit this stuff anybody can. I swear I was seriously like a walking zombie I didn't do anything except sit at home and smoke a blunt every 30 minutes. It's crazy because I thought I enjoyed it and that it made me happy but now I realize it was honestly tearing me apart. Me and my boyfriend were fighting so much because when we didn't have it we would take it out on each other it was so bad. I was SO addicted I can't even describe it but most of you know what I'm talking about anyway. I'm just gonna let y'all know, if you can get through the first 3-4 days you're through the worst part. It's gonna be the longest days and nights of your life I won't lie. It sucks but once it's over you'll be sooooo happy you did it. I was to the point I could hardly go 2 hours without smoking before I was so nauseous and throwing up. And once the nausea started it wouldn't go away til I smoked. It was like constant nausea without it. I was just so tired of feeling like I HAD to have it. I wasn't really smoking to get high anymore I mean yeah I liked the high but really I was smoking because I didn't wanna feel the withdrawal and I had to have it to even get a 30 minute nap. I was so bad off and I just hated my life so much being addicted to this s*** so when I quit, and got through the first couple days I knew I wasn't going back. I'll give y'all an outlook kind of like Josh did on the very first page of this thread.

Day 1- CONSTANT nausea. I couldn't hold down anything. I was throwing up or really dry heaving every 20 minutes because I had nothing left to throw up. I even puked up a little blood at one point. Maybe 1 hour of sleep that whole day and night, if that. Extremely emotional and I cried so much that day. The cravings were the strongest on day one for me.

Day 2- pretty much same symptoms as day 1, only a bit less severe. Cravings were definitely there but not as bad. Didn't sleep much though. Same as first day. I was starving but just the thought of swallowing something made me want to puke.

Day 3- this is the day I started to have a little hope. I was still nauseous but wasn't as strong like day 1 and 2. I would sleep at night for like an hour then wake up to throw up but I could get back to sleep. Instead of getting up every 10-20 min to throw up it was just every hour or two. I took Benadryl at night to help me sleep. It really does help a lot. Emetrol is great for nausea from what I've heard but I couldn't keep it down.

Day 4- finally the nausea was almost gone. I was nauseous in the mornings but it wasn't as bad throughout the day. I slept during the day a lot, I guess from being so exhausted from the past 3 days. I couldn't really eat anything except fruit smoothies, frosted flakes, and chicken broth. (Random right?)

First full week- I woke up nauseous and would throw up once or twice in the mornings and couldn't really eat much until lunch/dinner time. I also could only eat certain things. Lots of foods still grossed me out at this point. And for some reason I was sooo sensitive to smells. If I smelled something gross I would instantly start gagging. I'm guessing it was because my stomach was still so sensitive at this point. I slept pretty well considering. I would wake up every couple hours but I could fall right back asleep. No vomiting at this point except sometimes in the mornings.

And now I'll just give a little more info about the next month. I really didn't get over the nauseous feeling in the morning until about 2 or 3 weeks after I quit. But like I said I would throw up once or twice and be fine after that. I still couldn't eat just anything. I had to be in the mood for it. It wasn't until about a month away from it that I had my full appetite back. You just have to find things that your stomach can handle well. Like I said I think it's all personal preference. After a month I was sleeping pretty much normal at this point. Full night sleep. And after being sober for a month and a half (my current time) I am so much happier. I've seen people say they have relapsed after being sober for 2 weeks or even months and I seriously can't see how. My withdrawals were so bad that I don't care how bad things got, I wouldn't touch the s*** with a ten foot pole now just simply because I don't wanna deal with the WD symptoms again. I get a great nights sleep now, I've gotten a great job, me and my boyfriend don't fight as much and we actually wanna go do things instead of stay cooped up at home and smoke. My eating habits are back and I am back to eating like a pig now :) never thought I'd be happy to say that! I'm much happier, way less irritable, and I don't have any cravings.. Well let me take that back. Sometimes my mind wanders and I start to think about my old life and the "fun" part of smoking. I occasionally miss it for a split second then I remind myself how I was actually miserable living that way and I snap out of it quickly. I don't "crave" it though. In fact a week or two ago me and my boyfriend found a little roach in our bedside drawer (how we missed it in all those desperate times we were out of pot and searched every inch of the house for a little roach, I have no idea) and before this, I would've lit up like a Christmas tree and done anything for just one hit. Pathetic right? We laughed and threw it away. That was proof to me that I had beat this. I'm happy with myself and looking forward to what's ahead. I also wanted to say I hope my personal WD symptoms didn't scare some of u. I wanted to be straight up but keep in mind everyone's symptoms are different. My boyfriend threw up maybe 4 times in those first 3 days and he didn't have my constant nausea. His worst thing was not sleeping and he had horrible headaches. Everyone's gonna go through a little bit of different experience but remember there's so many out there feeling like you, or who have felt exactly like you. I'm begging you guys, please take my advice and start the journey of being sober. It's a tough road but in the end you will NOT regret it. There's a light at the end of the tunnel, just be strong enough to take that first step. You've got to commit and just DO it. you'll feel like those first few days are never gonna end, but they do. I've felt what you're feeling and if I can do it, I know anyone can. Because I was so bad off on this stuff. I'm here if anyone needs help. I'm praying for all of you!!!!! Stay strong, take your life back from this little bag of chemical leaves. Don't let it control you any longer.

Posted by: warriorz March 29, 2014, 2:11 AM
^^See that's what I like to see! At the beginning of the week, I found myself without my usual blends, and just tired of playing the cat and mouse game. It's no longer "fun", and hasn't been for quite sometime. It started out as a great alternative to the real thing. The odor wasn's strong, so I felt that I could burn wherever I wanted without anyone knowing, and I definitely did. The price of the real here is so high, and the quality is so s***ty, that is what pushed me to these synthetics. I was a 42 g week every week at least for well over a year and prob 3g a day 90% of the rest that time. I could drive an hour and get it, or order it online, I did BOTH. The properties of the blends didn't seem addictive at first, other than I hated to run out and not having anything. Tried to go back the real thing multiple times just to see what it was like. I was going thru a whole bag with no buzz at all!
Now today, im finding myself finishing the fifth day off blends! the first 3 days were horrible. Constatnt temperature change, no sleep, dehydration, no appetite, strangely enough I had a smaller urge to smoke than I thought. I wanted to smoke to stop the sickness! By the fourth day, appetite was a little better than previous days, body temp is pretty stable, at least a little bit of sleep. Now, I am at the end of the 5th day. Ate more today then I have all week.
Slowly getting energy back, but for some reason I have this lingering sensation in my hands.They feel like they're asleep, but they don't hurt. My sense of touch doesn't seem the same since I stopped using.but other than that I'm physically feeling better than when I was using every day. By breathing has improve tremendously, my head is definitely clearer. I'm more focused at school, and I know my girlfriend will be happy. Another thing that motivates me is seeing others going through this that are in a similar situation as me. I don't want to lose the person that I love over this. I haven't found myself in this situation, which I suspect is due to me being a functional addict. Im still able to work, got to college, and do lot's of other things. It's cool to see people get their lives on trac

Posted by: diane March 29, 2014, 10:44 AM
I'm sure hoping this will help me. I have been trying to get clean off of this crap for almost 2 years now.. Strong minded and strong willed will get me threw this.. and thank you once again for your survival kit.. I will post in 4 days on how I feel.. Aiming for a new start in life.. <3

Posted by: warriorz March 29, 2014, 6:36 PM
I am currently on day 6 and other than being very tired, I feel great. I used to think that smoking would enhance my thought process, and it did at times, it was nowhere near the mental clarity I've had the last two days. It's unbelievable! If anyone needs any help or just need advice or a friend I'm here to help however I can :)

Posted by: diane April 1, 2014, 7:09 AM

I must say THANK YOU for your survival kit list!!!!! I have made it threw the darkness!!!!! I have now been off of synthetic for 4 days now and I feel amazing!!!.. Thank you John once again for sharing your story and your survival kit it works amazing!!!!! Must say I haven't been this happy in a long time.. :) Free from my demons at last!!

Thank you again I can't stress it enough,


Posted by: diane April 1, 2014, 11:41 PM
I beat the addiction!!!! I'm on day 5 and feeling great!!!! :) Couldn't be happier for myself.. :)
Thank you John once again for your survival list it worked amazing!! Your a life saver that's for sure...

Posted by: Kj April 2, 2014, 10:16 AM
Hi everyone. I noticed a response to my post from Amy. Amy, I hope you have made it through the worst of your struggles by now. I am now celebrating my 30 day milestone and am proud of both myself and my husband. I was really crazy for a few weeks and hard a very difficult time staying focused. The store we used to buy from started selling again and I drive by it everyday in my way home from work. There were a few times I would drive another route all together just to avoid it. Be strong... You can do this and every day will be a little easier. In the past two or three weeks I have only had a few cravings that I have been able to get through. I am no longer searching the house for any little bit I may have left around to roll and smoke as a matter of fact I found a few little pieces that I could have smoked but instead I flushed it... Now that was hard but I did it and so can you. Once you turn away from this don't go back you can get through it.

Everyone, I had the same problems when quitting with the stomach pain and mucus that came from everywhere. My husband and I both quit at the same time and I can't believe our marriage survived it but it can be done. Eat whatever your stomach will allow for me it was very strange. I am not a big meat person but i wanted coldcuts all the time. If I didn't bring lunch to work I would buy a sandwich and eat the meat only. For my husband it was spicy and fried chicken. I have never seen one person consume so much fried chicken but he did ( and of course I wanted to be sick at just the smell of it). Like I said I am surprised our relationship survived this but we did have to isolate ourselves and there were many times we would get upset with each other and have to realize it really wasn't us causing the problem it was what we always referred to as fweed (fake weed).

Drink whatever kind of fluids you can stomach to avoid the dehydration I had to get creative I couldn't handle plain water and knew I needed something so I tried Gatorade but that was too sweet so I started mixing the two a watered down the Gatorade which helped me refuel without dehydrating myself. When at work I would go get large amounts of green tea for some reason I craved this and it helped keep me hydrated.

Good luck to you all I hope this helps and I really am hoping to see a post from Amy that she made it to her 30 days. Remember everyone... Mind over matter and YOU can control your mind!

Posted by: tg3 April 4, 2014, 5:55 PM
First of all, I just want to say thank you to each and everyone of you for your contributions to this thread. The info has helped tremendously. Secondly, My experience has been somewhat different with this savage beast.

I only used synthetic (fweed, legal, fwegal, fake weed, etc) for about 2.5 months. I too, was under the impression that it was no more harmful than pot. Wrong Damn Answer! Initially, I would smoke 2-3 small bowls to wind down my day and help me sleep. Well, then after a month it got to be a little more. Next thing you know, my stash was taking regular field trips to work with me. I'd smoke it at work 3-4 times a day. Then it got to where i would hit it every 20-30 min, all day long. The last 2-3 weeks of use, I was waking up every hour or two to hit it, just so I could get back to sleep.

Friends at work were starting to notice my "transformation". One of my friends happened to be my boss. He noticed I was tore up pretty good one morning after I had took a hit off of some "Scooby Snax". It had never done me like this before but apparently this particular bowl had reduced me to a pile of playdough 10 seconds after I hit it and I couldnt even stand up. He sent me home. He came over that night after work and tore me a new one. I started to see it and understand that I might have a "small" problem. It took a few days and a weekend home with my little girl to realize that I needed to make a change.

I hit my last bowl sunday around 530 and havent hit it since. Now, having said all of that, Josh your description of what to expect helped. But, OMG! Ive been so damn sick! If going through what I have the past five days isn't enough to make me want to be through with it, I dont know what will.

Having someone to talk to helps. Focusing on something important to you helps. I threw my stash away on the second night because of how sick I was, my mind was made up. I was not going through this again. I couldnt go get anymore, because I was to sick to get out of bed.
Day#5 has been my best day yet. No vomiting and I am starting to eat better.

Nobody said it would be easy, but knowing what I know now about this drug, I wont have to worry about it in the future. For those looking to quit, you can do it. I promise you, you can if you will follow what Josh has said. Its the roughest thing ive ever been through, but I know its worth it. Im reminded everytime I see my little girl. Your life is worth something too! Good Luck! I wish you the best!

Posted by: marshall April 7, 2014, 11:38 AM
Day 2 of withdraws... i can't eat,sleep, or even function normally. Cold sweats the runs. i honestly feel right now that all I need to do is curl up in a ball and sleep forever.à

Is there any kind of over the counter med I can take to help me sleep. Waking up every hour on the hour and cant stay asleep. Wakecup in the morning and I automatically start sweating and turn beat red with uncontrollable coughing.

Posted by: Barbie April 7, 2014, 1:55 PM
try Emetrol if you're nauseous and for sleep you should take Benadryl take two when you want to go to sleep and it should make you really drowsy within 30 min to an hour. This helped me sleep. Hope this helps!!

Posted by: NZGeek April 10, 2014, 5:15 AM
Thank you to all the people that have posted here sharing their experience its good to see so many different experiences from people all around the world.

Its a good distraction for me (LOL wanting my ADHD back now) I've been smoking synthetic weed for about 2 years now and very heavy for the past 1 year (about 10-20 rolled smokes per day) things where fine for the first 6 months of heavy smoking however in the past 4 months I have had this cough that has not gone away its been very bad in fact the doctors thought i had whooping cough. In an addition to that problem I have now got eczema and being having horrible night sweets having to change my pillow once or twice throughout the night waking and needing to dry my self off.

As a result of all of these problems I now believe that is in relation to the drug, today is day 2 and like a number of people have experienced I'm struggling to eat however I have discovered that eating sweet things is ok, for me its the taste of the food it is horrible and makes me want to vomit things that in the past I used to love now taste very bad.

I just had a very emotional conversation with my boss today and well thankfully hes very suporitive and I'm on leave for 2 weeks to recover.

I think the most important thing to fully recover (post withdrawl symptoms) is to keep busy, and being a very skilled Systems Engineer I've come up with a few projects that hopefully will keep my mind busy, I've found my self a few times this evening walking in cycles as in the past I was used to going out side for a smoke.

Posted by: Liza April 13, 2014, 5:44 AM
I am day three of quitting synthetic drugs. i am highly emotional, suicidal at times, not eating, crying lots and very down. i began seeking understanding of the withdrawal of this drug due to these symptoms. thank you to everyone who has taken the time to help others understand this process. i hope day four brings the euphoria that is spoken about.
i recently found myself in hospital with heart conditions, terrifying me. i have damaged my health, invested way too much money into this ridiculous drug and lost much of my life. i am thrilled to be on day three, despite the internal angst.
it is very difficult to live through the pain of withdrawal due to the emotional upheaval i am experiencing, but already i can see that quitting will benefit me greatly in the long term.
fortunately i am moving house so i have a great distraction from the withdrawal, and i am clinging to anything that will assist with that. i hope i make it. i believe i will.
thanks again to those who have posted here. it really did help.

Posted by: Noura April 16, 2014, 10:40 AM
Today is day four for me quitting the izms a sythentice weed blend sold in canada. I had been addicted severly to this crap for over a year now, not even being able to go just a few hours with out needing it. Waking up in the middle of the night just to smoke it. I had smoked weed for almost ten years before switiching to the synthietic stuff, becuase it has a stronger high, and not knowing how horribly addiciting it is. day 1-3 I wanted to die! severe anxiety, nuasea, hot/cold chills, fever, and the worst of all is the cloudiness in your mind , like a black fog keeping you from concentrating, or thinking of anything longer than a few mins. Today is day four, my body is slowly beginning to feel normal the hot and cold chills have subsidied but still there is a lack of appetite, anxiety-extreme, and cloudiness in my mind.......will this ever end? i cant stand this anymore. can anyone help? what can i do for this anxiety?? does it get better when will my mind feel right?

Posted by: Renee April 21, 2014, 9:29 AM
Thank you in advance for all your post and sharing your stories...I stumbled across this site while trying to research some helpful ways to try and help my daughter get off this stuff.

She is sick on a daily basis. Constantly throwing up, sweating, anxiety, coughing, etc...I don't know what to do ? Do doctors know how to treat this ? I have even considered re-hab for her but she says she doesn't need a re-hab...

We have used medications for nausea, Gatorades , etc but nothing seems to help... I believe there is permanent damage ( mentally and physically )...

Does anyone know if there is professional treatment for this drug ?...

Lost Mom

Posted by: Misstee April 24, 2014, 1:42 AM
I've been looking for this thread for 24 hours. There is no where near enough info about this online.
So, I'm on day 2. I want to die. I basically have spent the last 8 months smoking up to 3 grams DAILY. This is the first time on synthetic, and I curse the day someone told me about it. I go through a phase every 5 years of normal bud, stay on for about 6 months and come off really well. This tends to happen when I need a change in my bipolar meds, and I'm often to busy to go through the normal process, so I go back to my teenage habit of having a smoke.
This nearly ruined my life this time, and my relationship. It was the look of my horrified partner a few days ago, when he saw me smoke about 20cones in the same amount of minutes, I can't do this to him or myself. I've also given myself asthma.
I also have this great job, I have an amazing little art studio and I'm about to ruin everything.
I spent yesterday calling all the people, the drugline, the CAT team, and all the places your meant to call. Bloody hopeless. This is the first thing I have seen, and it's incredible, thank you.
Day 2 is more awful then day 1. I have all the symptoms, I'm hot/cold, so so sick, my tummy is on fire. But I'm not hysterical now, and I don't think I'm dying.
I'm so worried I've done things to my health.
This thread is amazing generous with info. I'm so impressed. Thank you all.

Posted by: Mermaid 66 April 26, 2014, 2:23 AM
Hi all,

It's been 12 months clean from synth for me, did relapse on the pot, but been clean from that for a few months now, and now 3 weeks off the cigarettes, feel like I'm really getting there, a clean and sober life, without smoking anything ( I haven't had a drink for 6 years now)...

Don't give up, if I can get to where I am, you can too, it's been a long road, but to be where I am now is SOOOOO worth it, I finally can look in the mirror and admire who I see, I've done it, SO CAN YOU!!!! <3

Posted by: texasfarmer361 April 30, 2014, 4:48 AM
I'm a 24 year old veteran highly addicted to synthetic. We call it legal down here. I have quit 2 times already. The first time didn't last but a week but my wife then ex wife now gave me an ultimatum her or tthe legal. I chose her but relapsed 6 months later and she asked if i had smoked and I was honest and she left me. That only made my addiction worse. Then not even a month later i witnessed my best friends murder. I started indulging daily. Multiple grams a day 6+ even at work. I lost a job a wife and my own dignity because of legal and afraid the next thing I lose is my life. I would spend my entire paycheck on legal and have no money to get to work or eat. I have been smoking heavy since my wife left me about 9 months ago and am ready to quit. I will be going to buy my detox kit in the morning. This drug is killing me. I have coughed blood and black tar sneezed blood from coughing smoke through my nose and have puked blood on multiple occasions. I'm now giving myself the ultimatum my life or the legal. I chose my life but scared I'm not strong enough to do this. I'm glad I came across this site for support due to the fact my nearest neighbor is 10 miles away. I want to kick this addiction as like many of you have. with God's will and with your help I'm sure I can kick this habit. Ive lost everything due to this drug and want my life back. Thank you guys.

Posted by: texasfarmer361 April 30, 2014, 5:01 AM
I couldn't say it in my earliest post but I have tried committing suicide 3 times. I've set my house on fire and was going to shoot myself luckily my dad was coming over and saved me. The second I drove my truck into a brick building at a very high rate of speed. I'm lucky to be alive after that. My last attempt I drove another truck into a river but a man pulled me out. I've been to the nut house for the suicide but they did nothing to help with the addiction. I really hope this site works this time around. When I'm out cultivating or plowing I think of just laying in front of the tractor and let it plow and cultivate me to pieces. I honestly think this is the Devils drug and he knows my name and where I live. Once again thank you guys

Posted by: concernedmama May 1, 2014, 7:44 PM
You can do it Texas Farmer - My son was able to kick this monster using the detox kit and I know you can too. Your mind will play tricks on you but on the third day you will start feeling a little clearer headed. Please stay strong and get off this poison.

Will be praying for you.

Posted by: Kman May 2, 2014, 3:42 PM
Hi. I just stumbled on this site, and I am so relieved that I am not the only one. I tried synthetic weed in Feb, 2013, and I've been high nearly everyday since. It's really affecting my life, and I think it's changed my personality. My last hit was 2 days ago, and last night was a bit rough to get to sleep, but I woke up feeling better than I have in months. I really don't know where to begin with stopping, but this topic seems to be helpful. Any support that survivors can offer me would be so great.

Posted by: texasfarmer361 May 2, 2014, 6:13 PM
It's been two days since I've last smoked. I haven't lost my appetite yet but still can't sleep. I told my boss the situation and he gave me time off but idle hands are the Devils playground. He's allowed me to stay at his house so I won't be around the triggers at my home. I've been sweating like crazy. A cold front came in this morning and I was sweating just inspecting the combine. His wife has been making me a raspberry detox tea with lemon balm. It has a very nice calming effect when your moods start to change from depression and anger back to depression along with the anxiety. I haven't felt like I've been dying but I've had a migraine since I started detoxing. I've been extremely thirsty and can't seem to quench it. I've been drinking 8 water bottles along with 12 gatorades a day and Ive been able to eat anything but Ramen noodle in a cup has been my favorite.

Posted by: texasfarmer361 May 2, 2014, 10:16 PM
Thank you concerned momma. I know God will give me the strength to conquer this.

Posted by: perk May 6, 2014, 6:16 PM
Hi husbanad has been fighting the demon for a while now..the last 3 days he has quit cold turkey..although he isn't angry he is very upset and sometimes inconsolable..he has puking, diarrhea, sever stomach pains sweets cold spells all the above..I actually called his dealer and said if I see u near or around my house u will get shot..I'm glad u have posted this kit cuz he needs it very much. I smoked it too but I didn't have the addiction he had. A hit here and there ..but he was buying and smoking 5grams a day...not good. All I can say is I will.never allow this s*** in my house or presence anymore..its literally looking like its killing him..and if he kept smoking it woulda.. .

Posted by: perk May 7, 2014, 11:14 AM husband is on day 4... I bought the survival kit last night..he is feeling alot better..he still says the demon trying to get him to cave in but he refuses that the lord..I'm hoping this continues for him..cuz the life he was living is killing him..everything u read here is true..its bad very very bad..everyone of these people was fooled by a label saying legal.
Day1-3 was vomiting diarrhea sever stomach pains bloody stools and vomiting sweats chills all at sleeping talking about the demons in his more sleep than 2 hours at a time..not hungry..including while smoking he lost over 50 pounds from general illness every day while Hugh...
Today is day 4..he slept all.night after I gave him the survival kit..he ate soup and drank Gatorade already this morning he is outside working in his porch so he can take his mind off the cravings..he is weak but looking more and more enthusiastic..he no longer think he is dying gilsbar urine is no longer red..oh did I mention his pee was red??yeah it was..for about a week now..but after 4 days of not smoking its getting back to normal..still can't perform in bed which he hasn't been able too in a month cuz he was so high all the time..
This 2 year battle is coming to a end finally..we lost so much cus they couldn't figure out what is was and the whole time if he woulda told the truth he coulda got help. We lost our house car friends..and now if he ever continues to smoke again he will lose us his family..please stop using people it isn't worth ur life and everything u work so hard to obtain ..
Ill fill y'all in in a couple days

Posted by: Terk May 12, 2014, 1:16 AM
Doesn't look like this place gets updated very often at all. At least it was nice to read. Was hoping for something a little more interactive however.


Posted by: Chris May 12, 2014, 12:27 PM
Josh you are the best man. You have really helped me realize what's wrong with me. I have been through hell and back with this vomiting and emotional mood swing thing and I hope it goes away soon. Ive been off for about 4 days now and also haven't ate it 4 days either. You really hit the nail on the head and I wish I knew you so I could shake your hand and hug you for taking the time to put all this on here it is really helping me get through this.

Posted by: worriedwife May 14, 2014, 10:52 AM
I found out not that long ago my husband has been smoking synthetic. He says he wasn't smoking a lot, which I don't know what is considered a lot or if that's a lie giving I didn't know for quite some time he was using it. Now he is coming off of it, he hasn't had bad physical reactions but he is extremely moody. He gets very mad very quickly and is taking it out on us. He wont talk about it with me, he gets very mad if I try, even though I am only trying to see if he is ok etc. Does anyone have an ideas on how I could help with out making it worse? Or do I simply need to make sure my self and my kids steer clear as much as we can until its over...any idea how long this might last? Help please!

Posted by: jessica May 16, 2014, 10:33 AM
Hey just wanted to post as I am now clean from synthetic cannabis for about a month now, me and my boyfriend are constantly arguing because of my mood swings we never have sex any more and I feel like I'm never going to be happy again does anyone know if I will feel any better and what can help with the mood swings I don't feel as confused and no longer see a man with no face stood behind me I am only 17 years of age and really need someone who understands not people that look at you like a addict.

Posted by: Guest May 20, 2014, 1:55 PM
But what did you use to sleep?

Posted by: kel0014 May 25, 2014, 2:59 PM
im starting day 3 right now, im at my computer crying because i dont know if i can work without vomitting but i cant lose my job, everything josh said about the first 2-3 days has been correct, the only advice i can give to people for it is dont do it alone, im still struggling and without my best friend, brother and uncle i dont think i would be able to do this. im waiting for the clouds to part and sun to shine through all i can think about is how disgusting i let myself become, i became selfish not sharing with my best friend because i wanted my $$ for synth. reading this has given me hope, thankyou

Posted by: quitting June 6, 2014, 8:31 AM
I'm quitting today...I have my friend coming to stay with me until I'm not sick....I'm getting the survival kit you posted thanks for that....I'm really scared I start puking if I go more than 2 hours withours smoking.....I can do this...ill keep you all posted

Posted by: GlassRose352 June 6, 2014, 11:57 PM
I used to post to this board religiously for at least a few months. I dont even remember my login name. But its been over a year and am confident that this forum helped me kick synthetic for good.
Now it almost seems like a bad dream. Like the person that stole, lied and cheated wasnt me. But it was. My boyfriend and I were addicted at the same time and quit together. We used to fight all the f***ing time about who stole the last hit that was left in the package. I think it was when we had spent our last forty dollars on fake, even tho our power was out and everything we owned seem pawnable. We got home and couldn't get high. It just wasnt "working". So we sat there, in the dark, with the last of our money sitting infront of us in the form of practically trash. After the anger, came the pain and then the tears and snot and yelling. About how stupid could we really be, how it was such a weird substance to be addicted to, and most importantly. ..that this had to stop.
We decided to try the 21 days breaks a habit idea, and it actually worked. Its literally going 21 days without smoking, and seeing what effects you have at the end. It was a start. And seemed impossible. The first day was just crying, laying in bed and feeling like you want to die. By tge end of the week, you're negotiating with yourself that now you deserve a hit or two. By the end of the second week, i remember still feeling angry, but it was with myself and the mess i had to clean up since i ignored everything when i was high. I used to get mad at people standing infront of me at the gas station just because they were there. Moral of the story, by the 21st day, we knew how bad fake had f***ed up our lives, how good it felt to check off each day and reach the goal. We were addicted for an easy two years straight. Its been since march of 2013 since we smoked fake. Havent looked back since. Even when i do see it, i can look right at it and feel no urge to buy it or try it. I never thought that would happen. But it is real, and if you stick with it, there is hope at the end of this and it is possible no matter the situation. I cannot thank the people on this board for their comforting comments back then. Everyone take care!

Posted by: goingthruhell June 7, 2014, 10:30 AM
I have officially been off fake two days now and I am completely miserable. I read something in the forum that said imagine going to jail with the flu for 3 days.... Exactly how I feel. I cant keep my temp steady, I'm sick from both ends havent eaten and I can't even drink anything. I went to the hospital and they gave me morphine and fluids but nothing helped.... I know that what I'm going thru will subside but as of right now I'm miserable. Reading these messages from so many other ppl who have gone thru the same and made it shows me I can do it too. I know that one day I won't feel this way but I dang sure won't forget it! I am making a Promise on this message forum that i will refrain from fake marijuana use, I know it may be hard and sometimes I may feel like caving but in order to live a heathly and long life I have to let the dumb s*** go.... Thanks for letting me vent everyone... I needed it.

Posted by: Bats June 8, 2014, 6:09 AM
I have been on this stuff for maybe three years. I'm somewhat functional. Every time I spit, something black is in it. I have left it in my sink to find that the black stuff turns to a cement-like formations that only come off with scrubbing. Perhaps, I will post a pic of this stuff to scare off the newbies or those contemplating trying it. I have quit for a few months a few years ago or something and I relapsed because I COULD HANDLE IT just once. I'm off the stuff now only because I changed jobs (somewhat functional) for a pay raise, didn't do math properly, and ran out of money. My payday is 10 days after when I thought it would be. So, its not a planned thing. I'm not at rock bottom but this is a rock bottom type of experience. I'm on day 1 or 2 depending on if you count alll that resin and crumbs I smoked trying to get by. I have eaten one ramen noodle in about 30 hours. My stomach feels like its empty except for the middle, where there seems to be a war going on. I came here to try to find a way to ease this and am now considering trying to stay off. I went from waking up in the middle of the night to smoke, to this. I have heard that when you wake up for it, its turned very physical. I over did it on the Tylenol pm and am now in skitz mode. No sleep for me. I just feel like the world is ending. I buried myself in movies all day but only one line keeps coming back. American History X. Avery Brooks asking the question "What have you done to make your life better?" I haven't done anything in that regard. I know that after a week, I'm going to turn completely paranoid. Not dangerously paranoid, more flight and less fight paranoid. I just know from experience that day 1 is a b****. But I'm done with day 1. So we have a crossroad. Have another day 1 someday or deal with the insanity and sleeplessness that could possibly make my life better. I'm not me but I don't know who me is anymore. I have been faking around everyone and now that my veil of niceness is gone, I'm turning into a real jerk. We will see what happens. I have nine days left til payday.

Posted by: quitting June 8, 2014, 10:20 AM
I smoke everyday for 4 years every 20 minutes at least I woke up every hour at night to smoke I would sneak out of work to smoke so I had to smoke every hour or I would feel nauseousg well a couple days ago I started reading thes forums and getting my mind ready to quit and I bought my last bag and I knew it was my last bag and I smoke it and it was gone it was gone I'm two and a half days into this and its not as bad as anybody on here said it's all mind set I took 2 days to complete we prepare my mind you quit I knew I was quitting I knew I wanted to quit and I know I was not going back I threw up maybe 2 times I slept 3 hours on 3 hours on 3 hours off the first night a little nauseous very emotional not miserable by far the second day was even better well I guess the first day after I woke up the really the only issue I had was emotions I was just crying but then I went to my friends house and I hung out all day and I was ok I'm not sick I'm not miserable I'm not bedridden I'm done I wanted to be done and I did not get sick like all these people and maybe you're thinking it's because I did not smoke that much time tell you if I could not find a bag when I was smoking I would get sick in puke within an hour or two but I have my mind ready for this and I knew what I wanted to do I'm completely fine with it and I'm not sick and I'm not miserable and I'm not bed ridden so my advice to all of you is get your mind ready before you quit it will make a big difference me and my cousin quit the same time and neither one of us had all of these symptoms we did not even need the survival kit you just need to have your mind in the right place

Posted by: PinUpChef June 13, 2014, 5:34 AM
Hi everyone,

I am 22 years old and have been smoking this synthetic stuff off and on for the past 3 years (after my now-husband introduced me to smoking it). However, for the past few weeks, I was noticing more and more "strange things" happening to me, which after I read previous posts, were side-effects of my long-term usage.

I smoke about 4g of Joker, or whatever the tobacco store has in stock, a day. Of course, I wasn't really aware of how bad I must have been lately, as my husband, who used to battle with his own addiction to this stuff, but gave it up on his own (I am so proud of him for doing it and being strong), is now giving me the ultimatum that I either stop smoking or he leaves for good :( I love him too much to let this stupid addiction get the better of me, but I am dreading knowing how much hell I am about to face, especially doing it alone.

I'm not sure how much help posting here will really do for me, but I don't really have anything to loose. Please, someone help me keep my sanity.

I'm not sure if anyone else ever experienced a loss of feeling and control over your bladder, but that happened to me, and it was the last straw for me smoking this stuff. So I dumped and flushed all of my stuff (a just opened 4g bag) at midnight and now I can't sleep. Now my head is flooded with self-hate for my stupidity, although I am still not sure if I am mad about the fact that I dumped all of my stuff in the middle of the night and not tomorrow during the day, or for dumping the stuff, or getting myself hooked on this crap!

Posted by: ronnie June 15, 2014, 4:48 PM
This is day two of quitting the legaql weed.This is my 5th attempt in 6 months. I keep going back after a couple weeks..Day 1 was bad day two a little better. I smoked between 5 or 6 grams a day. PRAY FOR ME!

Posted by: Justanotherme June 16, 2014, 8:37 PM
I fell after almost a year of no fake weed. 3 weekends and it had me again, I can't do this again, this is the last time. I wont fall for that again, it almost ruined my life and it still holds that same evil.

Posted by: worried June 17, 2014, 10:05 PM
Has anyone been sober in month 2 or 3.. What is happening in this stage? Please give me full details. I have a friend I am trying to better understand. He's very isolated and thinks everyone is out to get him or bring him down in some kind of way. Once that passes will be reflect on the past things he's done or move on? What is going on in one's mind in the2nd and3rd month sober? Please

Posted by: clp June 21, 2014, 1:19 PM
I am so glad that I found this forum. I have two sons that have been addicted to synthetic weed. They were both trying to get off of it, but my younger son had a relapse and got into a load of trouble. He ended up in jail and is now committed to the hospital for treatment. He had a psychotic break, and did not even know his own name. Luckily, he did not hurt anyone or himself. He was delusional and does not remember most of what happened to him. So I will make sure and bookmark this page to help my older son, he has been off for about 3 weeks. My younger son's future is on hold, he has charges against him that he will have to face once the state deems him well enough to get out of the hospital. This has been hell for all of us. I had no idea what was going on, I thought his symptoms were physical. If you are trying to kick this, best of luck to you. Don't let what happened to my son happen to you.

Posted by: Jamie June 26, 2014, 2:40 PM
Hey guys, I'm just here really to warn anyone who wants to take this AWFUL drug!!! I smoked this s*** maybe 2 or 3 times. I have just had the worst 3 days of my life literally. Started off I thought I was having a heart attack an ambulance was called to tell me I'm having a panic attack, that's weird I've never had one of those before. I literally thought I was going to die!!!!!!

Next day after a restless night, massive pains in my chest muscles agonizing pain in my abdomen, awful headaches, awful nausea, awful (yellow) diarrhoea, dizziness and plenty more panic attacks. I have had this for 3 days!! What's worse with your mind in such a negative state you will find yourself constantly looking online to make sure your symptoms aren't going to kill you, nit even finding out differently will ease your mind.

Now on my fourth day, I've managed to eat some dry bread so I'm hoping that will do me some sort of good. The physical symptoms seem to have worn off a bit, first time I've been able to shower and go outside. Only to have another panic attack which has literally depleted me of any energy . So here I find myself, writing this for you guys to let you know what you're feeling is normal and YOU WILL get through it.

Just thought I'd leave my bit as this forum helped me through this a lot. I wanna thank all you guys for that

Posted by: Under the influence July 4, 2014, 10:28 PM
I don't want to scare anyone, but surely others have considered this. At the risk of sounding crazy I want to first point out that humans only see in this visible light spectrum. There are things happening outside this spectrum we can't see, but it doesn't make them any less real. Agreed? After smoking for the better part of four years, I have come to understand that there are entities attached to the product. I think it opens one up to possession/influence. The anxiety is the entity vibrating the lower two chakras (stomach and crotch area, mostly the stomach), by which it attaches itself to one's "energy body." The first time I smoked I felt the energy stream of a separate being coming into my space, think/speaking in its own language that I understood as "downloading." I felt it settle in. It was terrifying and in retrospect, absolutely real. After almost four years of living hell, I'm convinced this drive I have to smoke all day and night is not my own, especially at night. (Thank you for the post/theory on sleep disturbances caused by the adrenaline surge, DAC. You are absolutely spot-on) I think the withdrawals are a physical manifestation of a very real spiritual/energy battle. The departure is violent and not permanent. These things experience this reality through us, through the high. You can see how they would be driven. The chemicals in the product change our vibrational frequency to resonate to the low-vibrational energy of these beings, so they can attach. They then feed off the low-vibrational energy created by compulsion, fear, anger and everything negative associated with using. This is not that far-fetched, folks. Quantum mechanics can explain much of it. I believe the solution is awareness, forgiveness and prayer. Realistically, these things cannot withstand the energy of our beings, once aware and resolved to rid ourselves of them. We do the hard part by going through withdrawals, the rest of the battle belongs to God. Those still suffering from anxiety and fear are still being manipulated. These things hang around even after detox, trying to get the user to use. It is still resonating to the personal, identifying, individual vibrational frequency of the host's energy body - it cannot stay attached otherwise - so, if a person were to raise his or her own vibrational frequency (prayer, love, laughter, forgiveness) the entity must detach since it will then no longer resonate to that same frequency. And plus, God can command it to leave. Very simple ... and yes, insane. But this is not a sane situation we find ourselves in. We need to know what we're dealing with here if we want to be free of this bondage/slavery. I have submitted my views but not one site has felt comfortable posting them. I understand. This is scary stuff and most people don't want to look beyond what they can see. But in order to understand this enemy we're going to have to get all the way out of that comfort zone. Please post. Someone needs to hear it.

Posted by: Under the influence July 4, 2014, 11:19 PM
I'm glad you posted what I wrote. No one else would. A few weeks ago I had some teeth extracted. I decided beforehand that I would use the opportunity to quit. My mother was already going to be here to take care of me, so I would just let her think I had the flu or something. But about ten hours into the hard-core withdrawals she was already too concerned, calling the dentist with questions. By day three she would have hauled me into the ER. During a brief reprieve I told her I felt better and had to go on an errand. Relief was immediate upon use. I am extremely high-functioning and although there are concerns over my weight, nobody knows what's really been going on. I am making a second attempt this next weekend. I have enlisted the help of someone who shares my view and is willing to see me through this. I am an alcoholic, the kind that ends up in the hospital with alcohol-related pancreatitis. I haven't had a drink in over eight years. This demon puts that one in the shade. I'm skeletal and malnourished, my appetite further being compromised since I have strengthened my resolve. I haven't had a full night's rest in almost four years. I wake up in the bathroom, smoking. My lungs are so polluted I have to take benadryl all day so I don't cough at work. I have found a way to smoke indoors without leaving smoke behind, I have a "crack thumb" from the lighter; it doesn't get any worse. My concern is surviving unscathed the detox without eating. I will be force feeding high-protein foods all week to prepare, but there's no way I can gain enough weight in time. I am still in the probationary period of a new job and am not yet on insurance, so this must be done at home. My caretaker will be juicing fresh vegetables and when the thirst comes I'll slam the juice instead of water. It'll come up with a vengeance but not before I've had the opportunity to absorb some nutrition. By the tenth hour of my first detox the diarrhea had not set in. Juice enemas are also an option. I just have to survive. I'm rail thin but I have a strong heart. No one can know until I'm safely on the other side. If I make it I will have much to say. I have so promised to help others in gratitude. Good love and luck to all of you - not many recent posts. Your comments have been a source of comfort, hope and despair all at the same time.

Posted by: quitting July 8, 2014, 6:08 AM
Off for a month n a half now.....neverrrr goingggg backkkk!!

Posted by: dando July 8, 2014, 8:14 AM
Hi there all,
Sorry to bump this topic but wanted to get advice.
I gave up this stuff some 7-8 weeks ago, the first week seemed really easy, but since then I have been going through hell! I have chest pains and what seems to be really bad anxiety. I have a fear that something is wrong with each pang and pain in my body I.e I have a headache which must mean I have a brain issue! I have been to the doctors multiple times and had heaps of blood work even had my chest x rayed which all come back fine.
I was wondering if I am alone here or if this is widely felt amongst those quitting this stuff? I smoked every day for about a year so wonder if this is normal how long before I feel like my old self again?

Any help or advise is much appreciated.

Posted by: robNbanks July 8, 2014, 9:09 AM
im on day 8 and have absolutely no want for this garbage i want to thank all the users on this site for sharing their stories it has truly helped i wish everyone the best of luck in beating this demon it certainly is possible!

Posted by: dennis July 13, 2014, 10:36 AM
Hey i wanted to share my survival kit for withdraw since noone has posted anything thats affective, f***ing chocolate to spice withdraw is like a picture of air to a drowning man, its a joke its a real addiction it takes real help, if u want real releif u have to ask a doctor for zoffram l guarantee it will kick the nuasia n edvomiting and buse bar helps the anxieties, the two mixed help me quit cold turkey with no sideaffects after 4 yrs of smoking 20 grms a week, ive allways relapsed on day 3 of sweat s*** puke repeat, prescripción zoffram and buse bar saved my life.

Posted by: robNbanks July 17, 2014, 10:54 AM
emetrol is all u need for the nausea if that .. i actually never got sick (after quitting) and i was smoking between 8-10grams a day for 4 years , one day i just decided no more stuff is the devil im on day 18 without my life is seriously getting better i wish u all the best of luck as your stories and encouragement is something else that helped me tremendously.

Posted by: DAC July 22, 2014, 3:40 PM
I havent been here for a while because its now been over a year since I smoked any synthetic. I still smoke marijuana occassionally. I have developed a pattern of going 2-3months completely sober - then allowing myself a week or two of use. This is just my solution to healing from the synthetic mess.

I do believe quitting cold turkey after an extended time is very hard. A doctor will give you an antidepressant - I choose to medicate periodically with marijuana. All I can say is that YOU have to want to quit for it to work. The pressure and concerns of others in the end will just not be enough for you to conquer addiction. You must do it for YOU.

This means understanding the problem. Coming here is a good step forward, but read EVERYTHING you can about the drug you are attempting to quit.

The synthetic, has some properties similiar to marijuana - which is why it first became popular. But the later versions are more similiar to smoking crack than pot. I have had first hand experience with all these drugs - the synthetic is very hard to quit.

Be aware of the different thinking that goes on when smoking synthetic. This can go on for some time afterward as well. Stop telling yourself these things arent true - it will just take longer to quit if you dont understand the damage you are doing.

But it is do get better...and can get through it.

Just need to start...

Posted by: angel July 29, 2014, 3:19 AM
I was smoking marijuana until about 5 years ago when I gotta put on felony probation and I started smoking synthetics...I'm no longer on felony probation but I can't bring myself to quit smoking the synthetic I really need help

Posted by: YnotZoidburg August 6, 2014, 7:13 PM
So I'm coming off a long 4 month binge where I'd probably smoke anywhere from 10-15 grams a week, I never thought I was addicted, boy how I was wrong. I feel so disconnected with my body and reality. My brand of choice was the 7H hydro, black bag with the devil on it and skulls all around the boarder, Appropriately packaged if you ask me.

Is this thread still active? I'm on day 5. My physical symptoms the last 4 days have been absolute hell. I haven't had a single bite of food since last Saturday. The idea of food going down my throat almost instantly makes me puke. I've lost 25 lbs in these last 5 days which could be a silver lining considering I started getting a little fat anyways lol. I've been hiding my addiction of synthetic cannabonoids from my family and fiancé for 2 or 3 years now, and I've finally had enough of wasting the money on the garbage. I've felt my personality deteriorating, friends don't come around as often. It's been hard on me, and I'm hoping you guys are still here. I'm not so worried about relapsing anymore because if I get the urge I'm just gonna go pick up some bud. However I'm trying to stop completely with all substances. There's no telling what sort of irreversible damage I have done to my body.

I wish I was on my desktop so I can be as descriptive as I'd like to be, but just bare with me, my next post I'll do from my desktop.

Anywho, I was curious if someone could help me out, I'm beginning to feel the mood swings. My nausea is at critical levels, so bad that even water won't stay down. There are times where I have absolutely nothing left inside but I'm still dry heaving and reaching. Days at work have been really really hard, the extreme fatigue, dehydration, and excessive sweating is awful. But I just keep telling myself, just keep pushing through, it'll all subside soon enough. I read the survival guide listed at the start of this thread and wow, all those items are awesome! I just picked up a thing of chicken soup and thank God I was able to swallow some broth!

What should I expect these next few days? Also I have a doctors appointment tomorrow at 9:30 am, would it be wise to share with the doctor what I have been going through? Or just describe symptoms without the explanation? Last week I had blood drawn and I was fine, no liver failure and no kidney failure, so those are also positives! This whole post is so scattered, and I truly do apologize. I'm just writing as it comes to me if you know what I mean..

Anyways, looking forward to discussing. Thanks guys

Posted by: DAC August 6, 2014, 11:40 PM

What you describe is normal after a long term binge with the synthetic. I have been away from this poison for over a year now, but I remember what it was like the first time I tried quitting. I didnt eat for 5 whole days - just drank Mt Dew and suffered through it. But for 10 days I felt terrible and didnt make much progress....I relapsed and ended up having to start all over again.

My next attempt wasnt as bad , but it still was hell mentally and physically for the first two or three day period. The worst thing was the insomnia and the intense 'fever dreams' that accompanied it. I could fall asleep, but I woke up every 2 hours and had trouble going back to sleep. When I was smoking I would just smoke a little more - and get a two hour nap - terrible decision to keep smoking in spite of this , but I did.

Eventually I weaned myself off. I wont kid you, the mental stuff stuck around for about 6 months afterward - it sucked. I got really depressed , ended up smoking pot again, and to my horror - I barely felt a thing after smoking the synthetic. The one positive was that if I smoked pot , I got sleep. Little or no buzz, but I did get the sleep I very much needed.

I am not suggesting you do what I did with marijuana, but I believe it helped lessen my withdrawals and begin to help get me through my PAWS that does occur when quitting the synthetic.

This stuff is pure poison....Yes, tell your doctor, ask for advice, then do what you think best. I found that learning about your addiction and responding to others really helps. Dont stick your head back in the sand and go back to smoking this man-made toxic garbage. Learn...persevere...and conquer. You are on the right path, make the most of the momentum you have already gained.

You can beat this...but it will take time.

Posted by: YnotZoidburg August 8, 2014, 1:13 PM
Thanks for the reply DAC, I really do appreciate it. I'm on day 7 now, it's been a whole week since I have been high. And I don't want to say I feel 100% because honestly I don't remember what 100% feels like anymore, but I feel so much better. I managed to eat two small meals yesterday and keep it down! I had 3 Raising Caines chicken strips, and half a 6 inch subway turkey sand which. My girlfriend of 5 years told me she noticed that I was looking normal (mind you I was never once open about my addiction with her, she never knew but always suspected) she commented that my eyes weren't dilated, I didn't "look high", my speech wasn't being slurred anymore, and I just seemed like normal me. That made me feel so awesome, it makes all the horrible symptoms worth it. I ended up not telling the doctor because I was afraid they might log it in some permanent file somewhere and to avoid the risk of being labeled in the future as a drug user I just didn't mention it. They ran several different blood tests, and urine tests. Everything came back good, which is such a relief as well.

My sleeping habits haven't really been affected throughout any of this ordeal, but each person obviously is going to experience this mess differently. I will say I have been getting more out of my sleep though. I am still very tired throughout the day, but after going so many days without eating that's probably bound to happen. I'm still fighting dehydration, I bought a big 72oz water bottle and I'm making myself drink it down two-three time. My hands are a bit shaky at times, and I'm still kinda lethargic. I think next week I may start doing some cardio, so I can get my heart active again. It's been long overdue that I start running again, considering I was a 400 meter relay star for Okie State back in 08.

As for the mental aspect. This is kinda weird, I'm not sure what kind of headspace I'm in. I've been so concerned with my physical symptoms that I honestly didn't care what mentality I have been dealing with, but I've noticed I'm more short with people, irritable for lack of a word. Other drivers really piss me off. Now that my body is beginning to feel normal, I'm able to focus on what my mind is doing or feeling, and the best way to describe it is disconnected. I feel "off". There's not a lot of motivation, for instance both sinks are full of dishes but meh I'll do it later.. Water bottles on the floor? I'll get those later. I feel groggy and cloudy. But the good thing is that I haven't had a single urge to go buy another bag of 7H, or any other brand of synth.

This is the first time I have ever been through a withdrawal of anything, I've heard about withdrawals, but I always believed that withdrawals was for heavy drugs like herion or meth. I never knew I was subjecting myself to such addictive substances. And the high only lasted what, 2-8 min at its peak, back to base after 20 mins? Gotta hand it to the guys 'marketing' and profiting off the s***, they really know what they're doing in order to maximize profits.

I've been fortunate that I have been able to keep my addiction separate from my work. And my job has made it really easy to stay away from this s*** this whole week. I have been working 12-16 hour shifts since Monday night, and so after I get done at work, all I want to do is go home and get in bed before I have to get back up and back to work.

I mention my work schedule because as I noticed I was using when I was working less. When you have an addiction you will make time for it. So for you guys still struggling with starting that first step, my advice isn't to go get a job (probably because you have one) but to find something to do with your time. The main thing really is just decide this is it, I've had it with this stuff and I'm not going to do it anymore. The mind is so powerful and you absolutely can control it.

DAC, are you still clean? I noticed this thread was started in 2013, that's awesome if you still are. I can't wait to join those ranks with you. Can you remember what the next round of obstacles was like after the first week?

Posted by: Guest August 10, 2014, 12:46 AM
This drug will brings the toughest of people to there knees. I have had multiple near death experiences with this s***, to the point of laying in my own vommit scared I'm going to die.I feel like my soul has been ripped out and s*** on. I also have never felt a depression like this before . I'm ready to quit

Posted by: Anna August 11, 2014, 12:20 AM
Wow what an amazing post, how strong you are!
My fiancé and I have been battling synthetic weed addiction for two yrs now..
We have tied quitting many a time only to fall off the wagon time after time :(
Our addiction is so bad that we weren't paying any of our rent, bills nothing! All our money was being spent on synth! We would even take countless loans out In our names to fund the habit.. We have a beautiful five month old daughter, we have moved back in with my parents because we are so far behind..
We came clean to my parents about a month ago and told them of our addiction and asked for help.. They were so good about it, angry and upset but helpful.
We were good for about 2-3 weeks we didn't have any.. Then we lapsed.. We figured hey we have been so good what's one more bag?! Well three weeks later and we are 1200 behind in bills again..
We want to stop smoking this.. We really do it's just so so hard, I'm scared for our future for our daughters future..
We need help but it's so hard to quit.. I honestly don't know how u did it..

Posted by: DAC August 11, 2014, 2:18 PM
ynot, anna, and guest

You have all recognized that the synthetic is physically addicting, and this also affects your mental well-being. Physical changes occur in the mind in terms of how dopamine and serotonin are released. If you have been on a long term binge - it may take some time to get things back to normal.

Dopamine is the chemical your brain produces to reward you for behavior that it wants you to repeat. Its produced when we eat right, work out, or....take something that makes the brain feel good. When you artificially put yourself in a good mood from a drug, the brain will grow extra receptors to absorb the increased amounts of dopamine that the synthetic produces. Remember, the THC equivalent in the synthetic is 20 to 800 times greater than pot. Synthetic smokers have brains which have been overstimulated and have an increased desire for this kind of relief. When you quit there huge gap between the good mood (highs) experienced on the synthetic, and the bad mood (depression) of being freshly sober....that's why it's so hard to to stay away in the beginning.

Sleeping problems, no motivation, no desire for much of anything....this is something we blame on sobriety - when its really just the absence of our drug. The good news is that the brain has an amazing ability to heal itself all on its own. The bad news is that it can take a couple of YEARS to full recooperate mentally. But I dont want to scare anyone who is quitting, most people are fine within a couple of months mentally. Most of the severe chemical imbalances seem to disappear after 2-3 months.

The physical addiction has to do with the 'benzo' molecule that most synthetic brands have. Benzo's are highly addictive, and once the brain gets conditioned to them, sometimes you need to do more than just quit - you have to get pro-active about healing yourself so that you can begin to reverse the damage. When the brain gets a chemical it really likes, and there is an abundance of it floating will actually grow new neurons to absorb the extra chemical. So imagine a brain that has an excessive number of 'pleasure' receivers, but the only way to fill them is to smoke more synthetic - this is the mental anguish we face when we attempt to quit cold turkey. We only have one way to make the brain happy - and that is the drug. Take the drug away.....and we are miserable.

So the more we smoke - the harder we make it to quit. Most of us cant think long term enough to do what we need to do - so we just smoke 'one more day'. When I smoked the synthetic I NEVER stocked up, I always seemed to think 'this is the last time', only I repeated this charade for up to 6 months at a time before finally quitting. In the end it became illegal where I live - and I didnt follow up on the leads to get it underground (where it is still available - saw an empty bag of the stuff I smoked just a few weeks ago).

I have been away from the synthetic for well over a year now....I cant say I'm 'clean' though, because I have smoked pot from time to time as a way of minimizing the withdrawals. I look at this the same way a heroin addict views methadone, or someone coming off long term use of an anti-depressant would view a slow taper....pot just eased the synthetic withdrawals for me in a way that I saw beneficial. I dont want to sound like I am promoting this solution - just explaining what I think it did for me.

I never had a physical addiction before the synthetic...withdrawals tell you how bad a drug really is. The synthetic withdrawls can be as bad as any other drug abused by people today....meaning, the synthetic is probably one of the worst drugs you could ever take.

There's a reason most synthetic packaging celebrates death.

hope this helps...

Posted by: Guest August 12, 2014, 8:02 AM
My husband is severely addicted his personality has changed he lies and spends money we don't have on this stuff. He has told me several times over the last year and a half he would quit and the. I would find his stash. He finally admitted last Saturday he had a problem we called a drug abuse program which told us this stuff is like being hooked on meth. It can cause strokes and brain seizures and the chemicals can stay in ur system for months even years. My fear is he vowed to quit last Saturday and he had a cold and slept all day Sunday. But other than a few minor stomach issues he seems OK yesterday and today and now I'm wondering if I should be looking for yet another stash.

Posted by: beforeitkilledme August 24, 2014, 11:52 AM
Today is day 4 for me today on my fourth attempt to finally get over this crap. I almost broke down yesterday until I came to this forum and read some helpfull suggestions. Thank you all so much forcyour positive imputs (chocolate shakes saved the day for me.) This forum is extremely helpfull because of the complete lack of local community for me. Im through the flashes the sweating the vommiting and lack of appetite. Thanks so much to Josh especially! Without his post about making it to day four I would probably not have made it this far. We can do it everyone! A strong community
Is a strong commitment to sobriety! Some helpfull tips that helped me through the physical aspects: You have to have to get some rest! Sleeping is really tough but a 5mg melatonin helped me get through the night. Im not sure who posted it but chocolate shakes really helpes me through moments when I thought I was going to break down. Try to stay away from using a lot of stimulants (energy drinks, coffees, cigarettes, ect.) They can make you feel good at first but they tend to make you feel anxious which could be a trigger for you. If you can keep food down broccoli is an excellent natural diuretic which will help push the crap out of you faster. If you cant eat yet (dont worry you Will!) Drink loads of water or Gatorade. Remember we can get through this! Reading these posts is proof positive that it is possible!

Posted by: Anon August 24, 2014, 3:40 PM
Today is day one for the second time. I'm not too miserable yet, but i know it's coming. Is there any relief?

Posted by: Leroy August 25, 2014, 3:45 AM
Here I go.. I'm 19 years old and have been struggling with this on and off for about a year. Like most of you it started with "mind over matter" I can quit whenever so why not? Wrong. Right now it's 3:30 in the morning and I'm sweating so much it looks like I just ran a marathon, I can't sleep anymore and I'm in college with morning classes so yay me but anyway I have a buddy that drives me to school cause we have the same class.. He introduced it to me and the rest is history. He always has it and is my ride to school. I'm to weak not to smoke especially with me sweating and loss of appetite on top of NO sleep. I'm confused. Lost. Not defeated.. Just in a void right now. I did the "this is my last bag" approach and kept going back for more. Never would I imagine it get to this point. I'm going to try things you guys have tried and see if that helps. Your comments really calmed me down so I thank all of you. Basically - I don't know what to f***ing do.. Cravings feel like they could eat me alive. You're right.. It doesn't feel like I'll never be the same again but then again I'm nowhere in the recovery timeline like you guys. I just wanna know what I should do? I mean I read the posts before this one and I just want someone else who had this problem and has killed this demon to give me their advice.

Much appreciated.

Posted by: 1day@atime August 25, 2014, 4:45 AM
I am in the same boat. It's 330 about 30 hours in. I've only thrown up once, but i planned ahead for the detox. Keep your mind busy. That has been the BIGGEST help so far. If you feel an urge, get active. I start to get real nauseated whenever I'm still, but if I can get up and walk around and be productive, it really has helped me. I've been a habitual smoker for 2 years. At least 2gs a day. I even got the point where I started making it myself. I knew it was time to quit though, I feel as if the devil had me by his little puppet strings and made me f***ing dance. I'm here if you need to talk.

Posted by: YnotZoidburg August 25, 2014, 10:37 AM
Well guys, it gets easier. I'm happy to see more of y'all actively participating in the discussion. I'm on day 24, since my last post I've made so much progress. I have finally come clean with my S.O which is another situation entirely. I've been able to come clean to my closest friends and family with the struggles I was going through. I'm eating regularly again. I don't feel as depressed, my productivity has skyrocketed as far as household chores and responsibilities. I feel free. I have new job opportunities and my career is beginning to really take off. I 100% equate it to my newly found sobriety, I took it upon myself to revamp my resume and submit it to a few big name inspection companies, those seeds are beginning to fruit. I would have never done any of that if I were still sitting around getting high on my time off from my current job. As far as eating, I ended up losing 30 lbs total (which is fine, got me down from 225 to 195) and went 8 days without eating a single meal. I eventually went back to the doctor and they admitted me into the er for dehydration. It took two of those packs to get me hydrated again. I felt like a million bucks after the rehydrated me. I was able to stomach chicken noodle soup, just the broth, that evening. And the next day I finally started eating again. It wasn't til around day 18 or 19 that I was able to complete an entire meal. I still don't eat a whole lot, but I can finish my meals entirely now.

Every once in awhile I think to myself really wish I could go grab a bag, but instead of going to waste money on that s*** I go to the sauna, take a good 30-45 minute steam and then I grab some menthol crystals from the front and jump into the dry sauna for another half hour. I've only had to do this three times, but it's cheaper than a bag of synth, and the physical feeling is amazing after a steam and menthol sauna.

As far as symptoms that I still notice, I've begun to develop a twitch in left eye. It comes and goes but it's very persistent. I still have some pretty bad mood swings, but for the most part I can't remember the last time I have felt this amazing. My lungs feel better because I've started exercising again. What scares me the most is how easily a relapse can occur. I don't want to go back. I've smoked weed one night when I was out with some friends, now it may have been the alcohol and weed with the combined mental instability due to withdrawal. But I had a pretty bad episode which caused me to act a fool in front of a bar FULL of people, I felt such a dark and heavy feeling of paranoia come over me. So that night (a few weeks ago) caused me to stop smoking weed for awhile to give myself a chance to get through the withdrawal symptoms.

I've been to a therapist and she Rx'd me some kind medicine to help with the mood swing, focus, and cravings. Wellbutrin. Although I haven't filled it yet, I intend too.

You guys struggling with getting out of the woods early in the process, just take it a day at a time and realize it WILL get easier. The first couple weeks are hard. Really hard. Imagine doing it with no help and trying to do it alone. That was my first couple weeks. If you have someone to help you through this I suggest take advantage of that opportunity. If that someone causes you to relapse, you have to cut away the cancer. Do what you have too in order to stay away from this stuff. You CAN DO IT.

Posted by: Leroy August 25, 2014, 11:42 AM

Thanks man. I appreciate it. s*** has a hold on my life and it's so hard to leave it when it's shoved in my face and it takes away these symptoms. Any serious symptoms for you?

Posted by: melisa August 25, 2014, 9:04 PM
THANK YOU SO MUCH ! I was in desperate need to help my daughter during her detox. Not to mention the fact that she had become seriously ill after smoking fweed. I stumbled upon this site and followed Josh's Survival Kit, in good faith. My daughter is in her fourth day of not smoking and finally was able to sleep. Again, thank you for sharing your experiences in brutal honesty, God bless you in your recovery. Sincerely, A grateful mom.

Posted by: 1day@atime August 26, 2014, 3:25 AM
Leroy, today was a lot easier than yesterday. I turned my phone off and blocked myself from the world today and focused on my mentality, so far I feel awesome. The physical symptoms have completely diminished, except for the insomnia. That part is still getting me. But I'm almost into day 4 and i know I can beat this. Stay strong Leroy

Posted by: alwal August 26, 2014, 10:56 AM
Found this board last week and decided to try and beat this demon. I have been smoking atleast 5grams a day having to stop every 3 hours or so to use or I just get weak start sweating and cant think straight. I took my last hit last saturday night. This is pure hell. This is half into day 3 for me I cannot eat anything but a couple of crackers and chicken soup broth, drinking about a bottle of pedialite a day, I cannot function enough to get to work and honestly coherent though is difficult. Ive been feeling like I am going to die, vomitting, diaherria, relentless nonstop naseau, sleplessness, extreme sweating, it seems like this is never going to end. Josh if you're still around i read your survival guide and that by day 4 the flu symptoms have passed, im still full force into symptons on day 3 and am praying that day 4 will offer relief so that I can work. Minutes are hours, hours seem like days, this is purely rotten.

Posted by: DAC August 27, 2014, 12:59 AM
Stick with it guys. I know it gets tough, but the brain is very determined to follow patterns of behavior. You are breaking those patterns when you stop. So once you stop, develop new ones.

I would get down and depressed after a month or so, then end up relapsing to pick myself up again. But I did no exercise, didnt improve my diet, didnt read any new books. I just sat and thought about the damage I had done and eventually would slip and smoke time and time again. It took me over 4 months of on again , off again usuage to finally get free of this synthetic poison.

Share your thoughts with each other - it helps!

Posted by: alwal August 27, 2014, 12:59 PM
Cannot express how much reading peoples success stories is helping. I was admitted to the er yesterday for extreme hydration and viral gastroenteritis because i was so weak that I could barely walk, this was the night of day 3 for me. Im halfway into day 4 and still feel extremely weak, my thoughts are still very clouded and i have to be extremely mindful of my thoughts because a lot of negative thoughts keep running through my head. At this point I can say I have NO DESIRE to relapse even to feel better, im looking for that light at the end of the tunnel, im missing work, extreme anxiety, ready for this nightmare to end

Posted by: 34 year old dad August 27, 2014, 1:55 PM
Hi there. I fell for the same thing most of you have.
I have smoked ganja for about 20 years. Last year my work introduced random testing and since then I've struggled to get off the weed.
A guy at work gave me a small amount of synthetic cannabis about 2 weeks ago. I was sceptical about it doing anything. Well anyway I went home and smoked. I was surprised how good it felt. So I went online and ordered 3g. I smoked that in about 5 days and ordered another 3g which arrived on Friday past. I smoked 4 or 5 pipes during afternoon and early evening.
Then about 10:30 pm I smoked another one. As soon as I blew the smoke out I knew something wasn't right and immediately flushed the s*** down the toilet. And almost straight away fell into a trip a bad trip. It was horrible and lasted about 4 hours till I fell asleep.
It is now 5 days later and I feel terrible. I have been to the hospital and physically I am ok but I am mentally scared.
I am going to see the doctor on Friday morning to hopefully get help as I need it.
Had to take this week off work because I am messed up.

Symptoms are
Sore head and neck
Chest pain
And a feeling of doom

I can't believe that the stuff is legal and I just ordered it online.
I am in the UK and there doesn't seem to be much help with this drug.
Been reading this thread and it has helped somewhat.
I suppose I am looking for some kind of reassurance that I will feel better soon.
I have a young family and need to get back to being the loving father and husband I was.

I would also like to say that I find it so horrible that this poison is being sold to people especially young people. I have had magic mushrooms, lsd and many other drugs in my past, but this was the most intense horrible trip ever.
It feels like I am on a bad come down from a bad trip.

In a way I am glad because if I didn't trip I would most likely be smoking that poison right now, not knowing how bad it is and would have ended up addicted.

I hope that anyone trying to stop does so as it is evil.

I also tried a nice bit of natural weed yesterday and it just made me feel terrible.
So maybe I will not be able to smoke it ever again?
Before this I was so happy and had the best life. Now I feel so down and just fuzzy.

Thanks everyone for posting. Let's beat this horrible poison.

Posted by: adam August 27, 2014, 10:40 PM
I have been smoking this crap for nearly a year and a half now on and off. This last go around was a 4 month binder smoking 10g a day. At first I could just maintain, get up go to work, come home and get high. Then I started needing to smoke before work then eventually at work. Then I would have to wake up at night to smoke to sleep. This past Monday my daughter started Kindergarten. As I was walking her to her classroom I was a wreck, sweaty,nauseauated, needing to get to my truck to smoke. That opened my eyes. I am sick when i wake up, i smoke, throw up, then feel better. Then I have to smoke all day long. Im tired of this. I quit at 900 last night and I am having horrible cold/hot flashes,bad nauseua,bad diarhea,cant really eat. I started smoking this s*** to be able to pass randoms at my job, but I am nothing more than a junky now trying to kick this. I am scared that I will relapse again and have to go through this all over. I keep a pic of my daughter that i Look at when i feel like giving up. I cannot go back to the way i was. i will not.

Posted by: 34 year old dad August 28, 2014, 4:56 PM
Hi everyone. I am really happy to say that I'm feeling much better. I actually feel happy today just about 100%
Think I had a 5day come down. It was probably the worst time of my life.
I hope you all can succeed in getting over this terrible situation.

Synthetic weed is so dangerous. Please don't give up. I know that I wasn't addicted but it messed me up so much for 5 days.

Stay strong

Posted by: alwal August 28, 2014, 5:01 PM
Really glad to hear that man!!! I am nearing the end of my day 4 and while yes i still feel better im still dealing with bad naseau and sweating/chills, so ready to see some light!!

Posted by: Meaux4444 August 29, 2014, 4:14 AM
Hello, this is the first fourm I ever joined. I have already quit. And recently relapsed and started smoking againand want to quit again for real this time. like someone had said in a previous post I too am going through a very stressful time in my life right now. So i am always constantly thinking about my problems and stressing over them. I have been smoking synthetic sent jwh-018,so anyone that knows a good bit about synthetic knows that that was the original chemical. I started smoking legal because I got put on probation for possession of a legendary drug which was a soma not even a controlled substance. because I had to take a piss test I started smoking that legal. I have been smoking it for a few years now and really want to quit for good this time. I have been wanting to quit but this time I am sick and tired of it & want to kick it for good!!! I have been addicted to methadone and quit on my own and it wasn't this hard at all. but what makes it even worse is i know someone who actually makes it, and this is the second time I find somebody around my neighborhood that makes it so he has the chemical and all itself. like other people have said to I have no motivation and I am very depressed. some days I don't get out of bed I just sleep all day wake up smoked too fall back asleep and repeat all day. like other people have said they can't deal with hearing anything negative I too the same problem. I was clean for about 4 months and because of all my life stresses I picked it up again hand I am here right now. so I am doing like y'all said and posting and it does help. the problem I am having is my nerves are shot severely!!!!! Any tips and suggestions will be deeply appreciated

Posted by: Adam August 29, 2014, 10:21 AM
So at 9 tonight i will be 3 days sober from this hell. I am not having hot/cold flashes anymore but i still have the nausea,diarhea,and insominia still though. I am trying to stay hopeful and positive with this whole thing. I am trying to keep my mind off the drug and negativity, kinda working. I am going to get my daughter so hopefully my mind will be busy this weekend and i can get through day 4 and 5 easier... good luck all

Posted by: Adam August 31, 2014, 10:05 AM
Been pretty quiet on here just like to say i am going on day 5. It is getting better, starting to get my appetite back. Still cant have a solid poo yet but the nauseau seems to be lightening up so i am happy about that. I have been thinking of going straight edge but yesterday i slipped and had 2 beers. Not a big drinker but still dont want to replace one chemical with another. I dont really have too much support but I am staying strong. As i sit here thinking i look at how i lost my job, lost all my valuable possessions to the pawn shops, will not be able to pay child support this week and all that is kinda weighing on me but i will stay positive as best i can. I am not sure what the future will hold but i am hopeful and optimistic about it. I sit and wonder what will i do with my time? Used to be excited to get off work and have that blunt waiting for me when i get home. Now what will it be? What will i look forward to when i get off work? I dont have a gf and im not sure i need one anyways at this point. I dont want the depression to overwhelm me and pull me back under. Im not too religious, i do believe, but dont go to church or anything like that. I guess i'll just keep on keeping on and see what happens. Good luck all. <

Posted by: alwal August 31, 2014, 5:29 PM
Glad to hear you are doing better Adam. I am on day 8 and the naseau has completely gone, I am finally able to eat entire meals and am drinking a lot of milk trying to get my strength back. The only thing I still notice is that I am still rather weak and my muscles feel atrophied, ive been going for walks and doing push ups etc trying to get some feeling back in them. I used some very kind reggie to get me through which didnt help for withdrawals but did manage to help the anxiety. I will be going to an na meeting tonight, if nothing more than to kill some idle time and maybe even take something positive from it. Now that the mind is starting to function again alot of things like depression and anxiety have been full force.

Posted by: Adam August 31, 2014, 8:42 PM
That is good to here, and i hope you get through it. I am also having some depression issues but trying to stay positive. On another my best friend of 15 yrs who i used this poison with quit for 2 days but relapsed and went back. This has kinda weighed me down because i love him and want him to get through it with me but he doesnt see the need to. I pray for him that he will change one day for his son but im not sure he is ready to like he says. I cant be around him anymore though if he continues to use so its like im losing a brother and that hurts kinda bad. I keep going on and will stay strong for my baby girl. hope everyone has a safe holiday. <

Posted by: Adam September 2, 2014, 1:25 AM
Greetings all, going on day 6 of sobriety from this poison and today was probably the hardest yet. All the symptoms are gone now except depression and anxiety. But my baby mother and I got in a huge fight which resulted in her saying i can just go back to getting my daughter every other weekend instead of getting her as i please as it has been for the last year. This totally dragged me under and had me thinking, f*** it i give up, and wanting to run and get high. I sat in a empty room and cried and just kept thinking what would my daughter think if she knew i was so weak and would give up that easy. I am sure it isnt healthy how much i need my daughters company because i dont have many friends and she is only 6 yrs old. It lasted about 30 minutes and all i wanted to do was run away and jump into a bag. I live with my brother who has always been there for me through thick and thin and my other brother like friend was there so I guess that helped me get over this wave of depression but f***. My daughter is my world and to hear my ex say how inconsistent i am and how much a piece of s*** ruined me. My daughter truly has no idea what is going on other than her daddy isnt smoking anymore and showing her all the attention. I have no woman in my life to be my back bone and just have my family and a few select friends. I dont know if I am just talking to myself but i feel like i need to put this out there. I have ran from good supportive people in my life to use and now i feel like i am doomed to spend my life alone. I just want to be happy, have a good girl in a good relationship and make something of myself so my daughter and my family can be proud of me. I feel so weak to have let something so miniscule take over and control me. It used to be pot that made me a loner, then it was synthetic. Tomorrow I will start looking for a new job and i am hoping that will take my mind off things. I have the potential to make damn good money doing what i do but i have never been consistent. Never kept a lease, a car, anything. I fear my ex is right and I am scum. I am sorry to have rambled on just wanted to vent healthily instead of beating my fist on a wall or giving in and smoking the demon again. All please be safe and take care. <

Posted by: 1day@atime September 2, 2014, 6:04 AM
Hello all, I am over a week sober, but the withdrawal just recently hit me. I felt great for the first 5 days and on the 6th day I started puking so much. And it hasn't stopped all the way up to today on day 9. I was just wondering has anyone else had a delayed withdrawal or do I need to be concerned for own well being? Please help, I've never thought I was so close to death.

Posted by: DAC September 2, 2014, 10:45 AM
Hang in there guys.

I think people who are used to smoking pot think that a few days after you quit the worst is's not. Most of the physical withdrawals should end in a week or so, but the depression, anxiety, and mental irritability can last much longer. Synthetic weed is like a narcotic withdrawal....the hardest part to conquer is the mental part -- so keep writing when you feel weak , and dont give up. Every day takes you farther away from having a crippling addiction that interferes with all parts of life. Each single day IS a victory.

You measure how dangerous a drug is to your life by how severe the withdrawals are. So can you see how dangerous synthetic/spice is??

Dont give up.

Posted by: DAC September 3, 2014, 10:20 AM

You admit to getting really emotional about being weak, but to endure the temptation and be honest enough to talk about it isnt weak at all. These little episodes happen weeks and months out sometimes when triggered by stress in life. Keep turning that compulsion to give in away. You are creating new habits, and this will make it easier to continue to say no to these urges.

Many experience a 'quit euphoria' after becoming completely clean and sober after extended use. This seems to peak around 1 - 2 weeks. Then reality and regret bring on the depression and anxiety that was being suppressed during the drug use. It's dealing with the depression straight up that will ultimately heal you. Mind - Body - Soul... This is how I keep it simple. Read something, exercise a little, and write & communicate with others about thoughts and feelings. It long as I stay on it - develop patterns - make it a habit...

One day at a time means exactly that. Focus on today so you can make the most of tomorrow. People who abuse drugs are familiar with short term solutions to stress. Do it without the drug. It will get easier when you are a couple months away. But to get to a couple months away you need to start with today.

Now I just have to follow my own advice :)

Posted by: 9494 September 7, 2014, 11:49 PM
Never been on a forum site but like many that have already posted I've been smoking synthetic for over 2 years and if not for these posts I've read I wouldn't have known other people have dealt with it as bad as myself I wanna quit I've tried before but at this point I've realized the time is now before something irreversible happens not to mention I've had people that I really cared about leave my life since I've been smoking , there is a lot of helpful info on here especially anything dac posted but if anyone thinks there's any more helpful info I should know plz share I've read most of everything on here already

Posted by: DAC September 8, 2014, 10:30 AM

When coming out of an addiction, you need connections with people in order to vent and ask questions. The problem is many of those close to you are probably burned out with your addiction. That is why coming here helps.

I wanted to further the discussion on what I believed was going on with my drug use - but no one in my life wanted to have that discussion. "Just say no" was all the farther the discussion got. That's like telling an overweight person to just eat less...technically correct advice - but deals with none of the underlying causes that cause a person to engage in behavior that is harmful in the long run. That is what i try and do here when I post - figure myself out.

Just stay away from Spice. I've experienced MANY different drugs in my lifetime - never had a physical addiction to any but synthetic weed. And the addiction got worse with extended use and changed me at times into a VERY depressed person who could only get relief from smoking more. It's a vicious stop now and start healing.

Ask anything you want of explanations drive myself into a deeper understanding of why I did what I did when I smoked this poison. I am STILL healing from over 2 years of smoking Spice - and I have been clear of this drug for over a year.

Posted by: Tk September 15, 2014, 7:24 PM
I have never came off a drug as hard as I did sythetic marijiana, if your smoking it stop. If yoir thinking aboit smoking it, dont.

Posted by: 9494 September 24, 2014, 2:32 AM
When withdrawing from the spice did anyone else feel extremely out of it?

Posted by: Emma September 24, 2014, 3:34 PM
I have found this page because I need someone to talk to. I'm on my 4th and can't stop crying, I've got no one to turn to. I feel sick, sweating, not really got any friends to fill the void. I hate myself I don't know how to cope

Posted by: texasboy3525 September 26, 2014, 10:15 AM
I started smoking fake about 4 years ago and then I quit for a lil bit but I moved in wit some friends
and just having it around me Made me want to smoke and when I did my girlfriend wanted me to quit so I tilde her I would and I just lied to her I thought if I want to smoke I'm going to smoke but we worked through that than she wanted me to quit agin well that diddent happen I just lied to her agin and agin it wasent till last night I knew something was wrong with me cuz I told myself its not worth it to lie to her I'm going to quit so I don't lose her well her and friend went to look for the dog and there was a half a joint laying on a table and I just couldent resist i smoked it and when she got back 5 mins later she just knew I was high so she broke up with me and she wanted me to leave and it wasnt till I was reading about the fake that online that I realised I have an addiction and I'm going to start trying to quit so I am going to use everyones story to help me see that I'm not the only one who has struggled with fake so here I am on day 1

Posted by: DAC September 26, 2014, 10:24 AM
Stick with it guys. Recovering from Spice addiction is a rough course to follow, but it gets even rougher the more you smoke it. Each day you smoke this poison you are changing brain chemistry in a way that will only make you turn to the drug faster and faster to resolve whatever bad feeling you may have.

Emma - the crying thing is your mind expressing how upset you are with yourself for letting it get this bad . Crying can also be cleansing...Dont give up your progress and go back. It WILL get better - I promise. I won't lie and say it's easy. But you will feel yourself again at some point in the future - just takes time - stay away from this toxic candy. It really does rot your brain.

Writing knows who you are here. So ask anything, reveal your inner thoughts, and begin to help yourself understand your motivations for both using AND wanting to get clean. Recovery can be a struggle - but not one you have to face alone. So share what you feel in an attempt to overcome it - you can win this battle!

Posted by: 9494 September 28, 2014, 2:59 PM
Texasboy3525... i lost a girl from being on the synthetic also i really cared about her too i cant say it was all the drug but the way the drug made me act is 90% the reason she left (in my OPINION) i was smoking it since 2012 and my only advice is stop while your still alive im not trying to scare anyone but you will lose alot if you continue the viscous cycle we all got trapped in

Posted by: jeremy September 29, 2014, 12:40 AM
high my names Jeremy and ive been addicted to spice for two years now on a daily basis and I amjust now seeing what is has done to me..and its takin my wife takin our newborn daughter and leaving for me to know that I have to stop...ive read some suggestions and im goin to do them I have to

Posted by: 9494 September 29, 2014, 3:35 AM
Jeremy : dont give up (i smoked synth for atleast 2 years 4 grams a day minimum most of the time)youve realized what it has done to you and that is more important than anything im also on the road to recovering from synth and its not easy but it seems that every day i dont smoke it the more accomplished i feel and for me that's better than getting high . i wish you the best of luck and it will get better

Posted by: DAC September 29, 2014, 10:43 AM
I got lucky when I quit. Lucky because, about a month after I quit they made it illegal and I couldnt get it anymore. When I tried pot after smoking the synthetic, it was almost completely useless because of the high tolerance I developed. So I was forced to endure the cycles of anxiety and depression without anything to lessen the pain. It was rough!!

It seems that about 2 - 3 months away I felt better about life, but he depressive times would keep returning occassionally. I read about PAWS (post accute withdrawal syndrome) and found that brain chemistry will eventually find a equilibrium again. But this can take up to two years to get completely normal again. Two years sounds like a long time - but dont let the 'completely normal' thing scare you. MOST of it comes back much earlier than that - It's just different for each person.

I am over a year away from the synthetic - I can tell a huge difference in both personality and outlook. All who write here seem to struggle with the overwhelming compulsion to keep smoking something that they know is bad for them. This is what addiction are making very short term decisions...and the regret over getting into this mess can just be too much to deal with. But stick it out. Each day away from this poison is one more you dont have to recover from.

I know advice is easier given than taken, but trust me, there is NO happy ending when smoking spice.

Posted by: strayer_strength September 29, 2014, 2:33 PM
I mean its gotten bad...I was selling it so at had it at my beck and call I was smoking like crazy and I have tried to quit ive prayed plenty and ive slowed down tremendously but I know I have to quit not just for myself but for my family...its like my brain feels like mush after I don't have it I get confused easily and so then I break down to smoke to feel normal...I jst had a newborn and I no I need help I just cant leave my family to go get treatment ...does anyone know what else I could do...and thanks for the reply

Posted by: 9494 September 30, 2014, 1:24 AM
DAC reading your posts and advice has been a huge help throughout the process of quitting synthetic. I read up on paws and it explains alot of the feelings ive experienced since i havent smoked

Posted by: DAC October 1, 2014, 9:39 AM
Thanks 94

I write a lot because I found it helps me answer questions within myself. I've tried to talk to those close to me at times but the 'drug argument' would be shut down and they would just simply tell me to "just say no".

It's so simple to tell other people how to fix their problems isnt it? Advice is easier given than taken. There is also this delusion that drug abuse is somehow worse than all other problems...a HUGE lie. It's about simple impulse control, dealing with anxiety/depression, and reflects moral conflicts and problems with a person's self image. These things could apply to wide range of damaging behaviors, but drug abuse tends to get the most attention.

The problem with a drug like the synthetic is that it truly is addictive and will shorten your life should you continue to use it. A lot of people smoking synthetic are in denial about this. If you smoked marijuana prior to the synthetic you will know the difference. I can put away marijuana for weeks or months with very little effort past the first day. But the synthetic took A LOT of work and energy to get free from.

I lost a lot of weight when smoking the synthetic....and after smoking for even just a week I would experience BAD withdrawals in terms of not eating, fever, nausea, and erratic dreams. But it was the mental battle that seemed to do me in each time. I rationalized that it was better to smoke something and feel good than to deal with the severe anxiety/panic feelings I had when sober. But the truth was that the smoking was making the anxiety and panic much worse than they would have been if I had never smoked in the first place.

The anxiety issues will pass when you get away from smoking for a few weeks or months - each person is different. You dont notice this until you've actually done it - been free of the synthetic for an extended time. But it's true. The synthetic makes you less capable of dealing with life. When you smoke it you might have some peace, but this is just an illusion. The reality is that once you stop smoking - all the pent up nerves and worries flood back all at once. It's overwhelming, it's depressing, and on top of all these mental problems - you now have physical withdrawals to deal with as well. It is a vicious cycle that is hard to break out of.

Just stay away from the synthetic. I once knew a guy who made this stuff. He prepared it with acetone and nail polish remover. If he put it into the plastic bag a little wet, it ate right through the bag. This isnt natural like weed - Its almost entirely man made industrial chemicals sprayed on banana leaves or some other organic base. Would you huff burning nail polish remover to get high?

See it for what it is and you wont go back.

Posted by: strayer_strength October 1, 2014, 10:28 AM
strappin my in for the long one clean

Posted by: trying my best October 1, 2014, 7:26 PM
thanks to Josh and everyone else on this forum. I have been addicted for more than 5 years and am struggling to quit everyday. any other tips appreciated. thanks

Posted by: 9494 October 2, 2014, 1:43 AM
Im almost one week clean now from synthetic and even though i have a while to go still let me tell you its a life changer i feel so much better and am starting to feel like " myself " again (its very hard to sleep though)previously while i was high on synthetic i thought i could never go a day without it i wanted to but didnt think i could and now that i have gone without it ive realized getting clean from it is the BEST decision ive made in the past few years of my life i feel
physically and mentally stronger already my memory is coming back also. quitting this poisonous addiction many of us suffered and are still suffering from is all about will power and mindset if you commit to it you can do it im 100% sure of that and to all going through the first few days good luck i check this every night for new posts so if you have any questions ask and ill answer to the best of my ability .


Posted by: Matt B October 2, 2014, 3:49 AM
Thats really good 9494! Personally I've only smoked synthetic cannabis once, it was a few days ago. I just really wanted to try it out, having been clean from real cannabis for over 3 years. I smoked two hits from my pipe at noon and i felt pretty high, but i could tell there was something different about it. It felt like a deeper, more intense high. Eventually i fell asleep, woke up a couple hours later and smoked two more hits, and it was like that untill the morning of the next day. Where i pretty much smoked all of it, it was only a tiny little bit that a friend gave me. But that next morning i went through the worst depressive, painfull, kind of panic attack. I didn't know what was wrong with me, but clearly there was for me to be acting this way. Eventually i layed down and fell asleep till noon and that was enough for me. That was the first and last time i will touch synthetic cannabis.

Later i found out that real cannabis is only a partial agonist on the receptor, no matter how much of it you put into your body, it only partially affects the cannabis receptors. Where as synthetic is a full agonist of the receptor, which makes a big difference scientifically. It fully affects the cannabis receptors, making them affect much more parts of the brain/body than real cannabis. Also real cannabis has an anti-psychotic effect within itself. Theres actually stories where people had strokes, seizures, and one where the boy actually put a rifle to his chin and blew his brains out after smoking synthetic cannabis.

So my thought, don't even go near the stuff. Smoke real cannabis, its much better(with all of its bad side effects) than synthetic cannabis.

Good job staying sober, i support ya!

-Matt B

Posted by: DAC October 2, 2014, 12:29 PM

Good info. Real weed is VERY different in many ways. It can still be a problem when there are excessive tendencies - the kind I have and the kind you described in how you smoked the synthetic. So be wary of smoking anything if possible or you will go back to all day everyday use.

The main benefit I found from weed is that it will help you sleep much better. The synthetic throws off the sleep cycle somehow. I considered this my 'step down' phase of recovering from withdrawals. But I had smoked the synthetic enough to be what I consider physically addicted to a substance. Something I hadnt experienced before.

But I like to learn what I can - thanks for the science!

Posted by: WLMoore01 October 9, 2014, 2:53 PM
Hi Josh

This article is so true. I am currently on day two and let me tell you that man those first three days are rough like you said! Can't wait to get tonight and tomorrow over with, but still realize the long road ahead. I had previously used spice in the spice for about two weeks and immediately was hooked after my first hit. It was an "alternative" to smoking marijuana, I am on probation and could be random at any moment while on the program.

Day 1-3: Are so rough, since I've quite I've had to literally only eat light items such as fruit, bread, rice, etc...and the simplest smell makes you so nauseated it isn't even funny. My constant symptoms so far has been loss of appetite, diarrhea (lots), vomits, nausea, hot flashes, and lost of sleep.

Will be back on after day three & good luck everyone!

Posted by: 9494 October 10, 2014, 1:00 AM
I feel like quitting synthetic has made me a hypochondriac somehow does anyone know if this is possible?

Posted by: WLMoore01 October 11, 2014, 11:08 AM
Made pass the first three days! Thank God, it is getting better, but it is still very rough getting through this addiction. Finally was able to muster up the courage to talk to my doctor about my addiction and symptoms and she put me on a blood pressure and nausea medicine which seems to help too. Only able to eat light foods still such as apple sauce, breads, soups, teas, and broths. Good luck friends and don't loose the fight!

Posted by: 9494 October 11, 2014, 12:16 PM
^ to the post above , keep it up its good to see other strong people out there getting through! ive been sober for a little under a month and life is turning around for the better .

Posted by: WLMoore01 October 12, 2014, 6:31 PM
9494, that is great to hear that you've been about a month clean now. Can't wait till I get to that stepping stone :) but everyday definitely does get easier and easier.

Posted by: quiter111 October 17, 2014, 10:44 AM
Hey guys on day 3 of the detox. The first 2 days were the hardest thing I've ev. No doubt that would have helpw done. The decision to quit was pretty easy but to continue with the detox not so easy. I'm here to tell you because I'm going through it as I'm writing this. Do not give up

think back to what you were really doing. Putting yourself out at the possible chance of going to jail to get the drug. The people you could kill while driving. (I know you do)
Having to wake up in the night at least every 3 hours with a sweaty raw a** Crack Jst to take a hot so you dnt get sick. It took me 2 years to realize this and when your mind starts clearing you will start kicking yourself as I am

I will say that I got to this forum late and didn't get to use the survival kit no doubt it would have helped. I went through it taking a 5 hour showers which is not the thing to do my friends. Dehadratiin even worse

you most define try have to come clean with your family if you plan on detoxing at home. If you Jst can't bring yourself to tell them. U must isolate yourself because there will be no denying your detoxing.

Be strong guys. The worst is over for me I hope. Great family and friend will help but it really is going to take your inner self to be strong as its ever been. You can do it.

Posted by: kayla October 17, 2014, 11:17 PM
Hey guys my boyfriend is in his first day I was wondering If there is anything I can do help him through this process??

Posted by: WLMoore01 October 17, 2014, 11:26 PM
Week and a half now!!! Feels good. I would be lying if I said I didn't have cravings, but now I feel like I have power over them.

Posted by: Chris October 19, 2014, 10:29 AM
My girlfriend and I have been addicted to this s*** for 2 years, and 24/7 we can't live without it.. I have lost 5 jobs in the last 18 months coz of this drug. Im in the process of losing the girl I love as well if I cant turn it around. She has supported me financially for the better part of 2 years. Mostly supplying the syntg for us to smoke.. $100 a day and 5 grams a day, neither of us are in a situation to afford it either. She is a part time worker and uni student. I am unemployed. We are a good couple and have a big future togethee, but not with this stuff holding me back. Im 25 and she is w3. We have both relapsed once. We quit for 5 months and we were completely clean in that time. Then started a little again, I lost a job and its gotten back to out of control. If I smoke 4 bongs at 11pm before getting into bed, I will be awake again by 12.30 for another cone.

I know that I have a problem and I am seeking professional help, but the advice people here are giving could be very helpful.

As im writing this I haven't smoked for almost 24 hours. Having cigarettes is helpful for the time being.

Any advice or opinion would be greatly appreciated.

Posted by: DAC October 19, 2014, 1:24 PM
Seems like a lot of progress is being made by a lot of people. Please realize people that the synthetic is a man-made chemical that tries to mimic marijuana, but it is toxic as well as extremely addictive.

When addicted , it seems we take ridiculous chances with our health and mind. The synthetic does damage that none of us want to acknowledge. A person caught up in this will only think in terms of hours and maybe days, but one day leads to another and before you know it you have smoked for months straight.

Pull out a day planner , be honest, and mark the next month's activities including all times you plan to get high. If you were like me when I smoked this stuff , your day planner will have 12-20 times a day when you are getting high.

There is no future with this kind of use....only the destruction of everything you hold dear. Put this away friends. I weaned myself off by substitiuting pot at times....maybe controversial, but it worked. Primarily because my sleep cycle was so messed up that was the ONLY thing that worked for a while.

But if you smoke pot to get away from the synthetic - it has to be short term. You wont get high off pot like you did before the synthetic. The synthetic is 20 - 800 times as powerful as marijuana. You are coming down off a mental roller coaster....time to steady things out for your own sanity!

Posted by: ebony October 20, 2014, 9:41 AM
I smoked spice for about 3 weeks straight and just quit one day cold turkey.Once I stopped I went thru a psychological episode extreme withdrawal and then detox.I've been spice free for 2 weeks and still don't JJ ave an appetite for food how long does it rake to regain a normal eating habit once you've quit.My Webpage

Posted by: DAC October 20, 2014, 11:30 AM

Stick with it. Your system is out of whack right now - you will recover, it just takes time. I know I struggled up until about 6 or 8 weeks after my last encounter with Spice. I know this sounds like a long time, but eventually you will get there.

Posted by: justin October 20, 2014, 9:11 PM
8 o'clock Monday night October 20, have used 2-5 ounzes of synthetic a week for about 5 years nearly constantly. I got it from purple haze off the shelves without I.d. when I was 16.
After the synthetic drug ban it became much easier to get. all the local drug dealers started selling it in bulk for much cheaper than in stores. Years went by before noticing the damage, attempted self detox numerous times with success, but without notice it would find me again. Tonight is my first clean in 5 years, today has been a revolving Door of cold sweats shaking vomiting diahrea and all around misery. Hardest thing in life is changing it.
Will keep updated on the journey. Wish me luck and any tips are appreciated. I am extremely addicted mentally and physically and have smoked roughly 15 blounts a day throughout my dependence. If I can quit it, anyone can.

Posted by: concernedmama October 25, 2014, 8:08 PM
Hey DAC, nice to see you still posting occasionally. My son has been off synthetic for almost 2 years. It was very hard for him to quit but I basically had to tell him he had to leave our home if he didn't stop. He is doing so well now and I am so proud of him. It was a hard road for him while going through detox. He still has lingering side effects from it; his hair started falling out and he still has a big bald spot AND his teeth had to have around $3000 worth of work. Those chemicals in the synthetic will eat your enamel off. His dad and I both have full heads of hair and no baldness is in our families so I know it was from the synthetic.

He has a great job, great fiancee and a precious seven month old little grandson that is the light of my life.

All of you who are struggling, please know it CAN be done. Please do it for your self. You don't want to be bald and toothless.

Peace and Blessings to all of you.

Concerned Mama

Posted by: DB October 26, 2014, 6:13 PM
Okay so up and down up and down here i go again! Every time i quit i find roaches to exempt me from being off synth (miniscule relapses) i figured ive beat this but apparantly not, i can sleep eat etc regularly without synth but im anxious depressed and feel so alone (mostly cuz i am alone) tbe world turns without me it seems. I have to quit i had a 10g a day habit down to less and less, i cant seem to just say no. For now im safe, but mainly due to lack of funds, but payday is just a few days away, i have only my intuotion to tell me quit, i am feeling better but my sporadic depressive bouts and disgusting housing situation and unlively life scenario.. im active to the point i cant gain a ounce. I feel as if I'm just babbling on and on and on but i need to process and have no one to do so with my ADHD really makes things worse im impulsive to the core

Posted by: trying times November 5, 2014, 5:54 AM
I just want to start out by saying it is really good to find support, to know others have gone through what I am going through and come out the other side is a huge relief. We all thought we had control of our addiction, and unless you have a moment of deep realization that you are an addict and it will eventually kill you, you keep convincing yourself that you have it under control, it's not hurting anybody, you hold down a job, you don't steal from your friends and family, what harm is it doing right?

My moment of realization happened a couple of days ago. Like most people on here I have enjoyed a pleasent relationship with maryjane able to pick it up and (mostly) put it down when I tried. I started smoking 'fake' pot about 3 years ago after failing a drug test for the company I worked for.

I started smoking very occasionally, a 3 gram would last more than a week, but with the insidious nature of this drug my use worsened and worsened. Recently I was at a point where I was smoking up to 5 grams a day. In the crash and burn cycle, getting up in the middle of the night multiple times, then all day everyday.

When you are in the middle of this delirium it is so hard to see anyone else point of view. I never considered once what I was putting my wife through. She is a brave and beautiful woman but seeing me in the crash and burn state was too much for her, my constant lying to her about my use, my sneaking around and just lack of interest in being around her (out of respect I didn't smoke it around her in the beginning) so I couldn't wait for her to leave so I could light up. Unfortunately the emotional abuse of this was too much for her and has recently decided to separate. This was when I had my moment of realization, this has to stop, I don't enjoy it as I know how much it hurt the people in my life and I still couldn't stop.

After this realization, that even though it was a victimless crime, at least that is what I kept telling myself. It took my wife leaving me to get the clarity I need to beat this demon. I took the first step a couple of days ago, and instead of lying to myself I rang my family and asked them for help. I have a calm certainty that this is it this time (I have tried and failed twice before). But when I turned to my wife, admitted I had a problem and asked for help (the first time I had done that) I was told it was too little too late. The damage had been done, this is a devastating blow but it also adds to my certainty that this is it I don't need this s*** anymore. I have my friends and family to rely on for help and I didn't understand the emotional damage I was doing to the person I was meant to protect the most.

I am only in the early stages of withdrawal, day 2 today, but instead of maybe considering a smoke on the weekends I just want this s*** out of my life. It has cost me my relationship with the person I Ioved the most and really hurts to know you have done that. So that's my story now for my advice. All situations are different and this may not apply to you. If your partner is addicted to this stuff and is neglecting you, take a hard approach. Believe me when I say there is rationalizing with this drug, it will consume the man or woman you love, maybe not at the start but definitely by the end. You cannot change them, them might lie to you decieve you , and be damn convincing about but untill they actually want it you are wasting your time. They have to want to change. This is very therapeutic for me and I will be on this forum over the next little while. I am so glad to know help and support is here!

Posted by: Trying times November 5, 2014, 6:28 AM
I know I posted the above story on another thread in this forum, before I noticed the dates of last posts. I really need interaction with this as I am at work (I work away 28 days then home for a week). Unfortunately I cannot find support here without the possibility of losing my job. I have gotten through day three, however the neasea has been steadily increasing (didnt even feel like vomitting the first two days) but now I have to use all my will power to keep my stomach contents down. It is hard work withdrawing around colleagues and not letting on. I am sleeping which is a bonus but probably due to physical nature of my work. Which is a little surprising as I was in the 'wake up every hour or so to smoke myself back to sleep' stage of this addiction only a few days ago.

I am amazed after reading these threads just how many lives this drug has destroyed, and realize just how many happy families have come undone. Unfortunately I have to put myself into that category.

I am quite angry at myself for treating my spouse the way I did the emotional abuse she suffered. I was too high to care or realize. When I asked her for help she laughed at me and said NO! She told me because I had lied so many times she just didn't believe me, and that hurts. My advice to any spouse with a partner struggling with this addiction would be to play hard ball, threaten to leave, leave if they doesn't stop. But if you truly see a change (for me I called my family and asked for help) which is something I would never have dreamed of doing if I wasn't serious, they didn't even know I had a problem. Started searching for na meeting, and if I can't kick it am prepared for a full re-hab. I thought that after 9 years of being together she might have realize I was serious and wanted to help me. I know I have done horrible things to her, she complains of anxiety issues and depression that have all stemmed from my smoking. I know my marriage is over, she will not help me and even told me now that we are separated I am not her problem, I know I will get sober but I can't go back to her now knowing I don't have her support or help. We have never had money issues because of it, I earn a very good salary and only ever spent the money I earned on it, whilst single handedly taking care of the mortgage. I know I am the screw up here and have done the damage to the relationship but I thought if you truly loved someone you help when they ask for it. I think she tried so hard when I wasn't ready and just kept failing. Once again no one can tell you to get off this s***, it has to come from inside. I really hate this stuff with a passion now seeing what it has done to so many good people. I'm sorry if this post is a little incoherent, just venting. What do you think I know she is just protecting herself but now is when I need the help the most

Posted by: Trying times November 6, 2014, 6:00 AM
Back again,
I'm not even sure if anyone is reading this but it has really seemed to help, so now for today's ramblings. Day 3, just finished work (which was always time to smoke). To be honest I haven't had the cravings yet, I'm still too disgusted in myself to even consider thinking about smoking again. My stomach is still in a full on war, have had to force feed myself as I need the energy for work, it is the hardest thing to do, force food into your mouth when just the thought of it makes you sick.

I feel like I am getting over the withdrawals, I am not feeling as sick, I still feel extreamly out of it, kinda just zoning out every now and again to snap back to attention and seem to be doing a lot of things the hardest way possible. I hope it hasnt been noticed by too many people. At least the sweats arnt a give away (we work in 40 degree Celsius). But I have had to be so careful with my fluid intake (it doesnt take long to go down with dehydration in this heat.

So I guess this is where to hard work begins, now that I am almost through withdrawals, I have to find other activities to keep my mind busy - I think that is why I have been reading everything I can about it and re-reading these forums. I know if I feel like craving I just have to read these thread to remind myself just how dangerous and serious this particular drug is, and how it has destroyed lives.

Posted by: DAC November 6, 2014, 12:57 PM

Stick with it. The synthetic is VERY hard to overcome in the beginning, and it doesnt go away for a while. But while sober , you will see the real damage you have done and this should make you even more determined to put it down. I know I reached the point you are at several times and continued to go back. DONT do this, quitting just gets harder and harder the more you give in.

If you can get through the worst of it in the first few weeks , dont make the mistake of going back. You will just wake up a year later with the same problem. Stick with your quit! You will be MUCH happier with yourself for doing so, and your mental and physical health will eventually be restored.

Posted by: trying times November 6, 2014, 9:14 PM
Hi Dac,
Thanks for the advice, not just to me but to all the people you have helped on this thread. Reading your comments have given me strength. Can you tell me how you justified your relapse in your mind, just so I can be self aware and know the warning signs. Physically feeling a lot better today, stomach issues have gone, am not having so much trouble eating, however now the physical symptoms are over, the emotional issues begin.... I know it's just my brains chemicals starting to recover, knowing still doesn't stop the emotionl roller coaster I have been feeling all day, and probably for the next while.

Dac your selflessness in helping people with this addiction is amazing. Thank you so much for your help

Posted by: DAC November 8, 2014, 2:06 AM

Thanks...I appreciate the kind words

You asked how I justified a relapse? I know now that I couldnt really justify it with the synthetic. I just kept putting off my sobriety because I wanted to "Say Goodbye"...have that "last time smoking" know , just smoke "one more bag", go "one more day".

All lies

I did try and rationalize that it was better to feel good than to feel the intense anxiety and depression that seems to follow once your mind starts really missing the drug. I also thought that it was something I needed to sleep, that it helped write comedy, that it had some hidden benefit that I just couldnt put my finger on because it made me feel so good.

more lies

The truth is we are 90% likely to repeat the same habits we did the day before. Whatever habits we have developed, we will repeat. The key is to start moving in the direction that heals us and improves our health physically and mentally. I believe exercise and diet are essential to impoving the physical health. When we improve our health we become invested in our recovery. I often made the mistake of doing nothing at all. This almost always led back to the synthetic one way or another because I felt miserable and wasnt doing anything to make myself feel any other way. The synthetic was a quick fix for the blues...and I was lazy at the my lack of effort almost always brought me back to smoking.

Just realize your mind will want the drug and will do everything it can to lead you back to it. So take your mind in a different direction. Read about addiction, read about recovery, read a book you really want to. Engage the mind and get it moving in a different direction, or you will simply repeat the relapse cycle over and over again. You need to take your mind off of the synthetic. Your mind unengaged will return to it much faster. Start showing some physical and mental improvement and hopefully your addictive nature will make you want to get excessive about being clean.

I also found it helped to write here, and to write for yourself in a private way that helps focus on your progress. Keep a journal, write down goals, then hold yourself accountable by doing this each and every day. My addictive nature means that when I start keeping track of my progress , I can get excessive about recovery as well.

Just dont consider the synthetic as an alternative. Once you have decided to smoke in the future again , your brain will produce dopamine based on expecting to use the drug again. A small surrender about it being ok to smoke will start the cravings. Once the cravings start it's hard not to smoke again.

So stay resolved , and do positive things to take yourself away from where you are now. Your brain is just chemically thrown off right now and is not in balance. Over time it will return to normal though. Faster if you do things like improving diet and exercising.

And if you have any other questions, feel free to ask. Helping others helps me as well.

Posted by: Trying times November 8, 2014, 10:36 AM
Hi Dac,
Thanks for the advice, you are an inspiration to us all to have conquered this addiction it must feel amazing. My next question has to do with using the real thing. I am still disgusted with myself and am a long way away from getting there but I just wanted to know about your relationship with the real thing. I am not anywhere near there yet and I know I won't do it for a very long time yet, but can you have a smoke of the real thing and not worry about relapsing on the synthetics? I understand an alcoholic can't have another drink but I never felt like I had this dependence on the real thing?? Am I just trying to convince myself that I can handle weed or do you think this will lead to another episode?

Thanks again,


Posted by: DAC November 8, 2014, 2:12 PM

This is where my advice can get a little controversial. I tried going COMPLETELY cold turkey off the synthetic and I was still feeling depressed and anxious up til about 6-8 weeks. Regular weed in the beginning did almost nothing for me in terms of getting 'high'. My tolerance was shot , since the synthetic can be 20-800 times stronger than weed. So I thought nothing but the synthetic could give me that 'escape' feeling that I very much needed during a time of high stress and anxiety in my life.

But see, I was already in a bad time of life when I started smoking the synthetic. My life didnt fall apart DUE to the synthetic. It had already fallen apart. The synthetic was a comfort and coping tool in the beginning because my life was already a mess and this seemingly made it easier to deal with the problems. I was also very isolated, not many people to talk to on deep personal level, and the synthetic made it easier to deal with life in the beginning....but only in the beginning. like all drugs , a little release every now and then helps - can even be beneficial. The problem with an addict (and with the synthetic I considered myself addicted) is that we want that release every day - and it wont work that way every day. Every day use will lead to major problems in terms of relationships and getting work done. Cant do any drug every day without negative consequences (this includes 'legal' drugs as well)

I will just tell you what I saw from smoking marijuana after the synthetic. It didnt get me very 'high' but it really did help me sleep...and that was a major deal for me because that is what I though the synthetic was doing in the beginning - helping me get sleep. I didnt smoke MJ nonstop like I used to though. What I realized was that to feel 'high' again I had to go completely without it for several weeks. Then I could smoke and feel the effects...but after a week or so of every day smoking I was back to having such a high tolerance that I was back to feeling next to nothing. So this was my pattern - go a month, maybe even two months, then smoke for a week or two.

For me marijuana acted as a sort of 'step down' drug, kinda like methadone is to a heroin user. I believe it helped 'wean' me from the synthetic cravings. But this is controversial, because the philosophy of "an alcoholic cant even take one drink" thing always gave me trouble. The problem was I could smoke , then quit at will. I wasnt hopelessly addicted from a single puff. It made me question whether or not I was ever addicted prior to the synthetic experience.

Currently I 'allow' myself to smoke occassionally, but honestly I dont know if this is the best approach or not. I average about one to two days a month - it has worked so far, but right now I am committed to staying away from smoking for a much longer time.

I am trying to defeat addiction...not marijuana smoking, If that makes sense. I feel I am not addicted to marijuana, but I also realize that if I were in a highly stressful situation again - I might go back to the every day smoking as a coping mechanism. The peace I have with this is even if I did this, it would only last a month or so because after that it just loses its ability to do what I want - so I know I would stop again.

It's about the person and their tendencies really. When I was a kid, my favorite candy was M&M s. My mom filled a candy jar with the M&M's and I would devour them as soon as she put them the beginning. After a short while though I would only eat a few a day and not empty the jar out at all. Eventually I stopped eating them altogether. I see the same relationship with me and marijuana.

Society tells you 'just say no'...but then offers up a cornicopia of 'legal' drugs to help cope?? I have a relative taking SEVERAL narcotic, and addicting drugs every day of their life - yet she believes smoking marijuana is one of the worst things a person can do. But really, If you are addicted to a narcotic, and will suffer extreme withdrawals if you stop, should you be lecturing a person like me who only smokes pot occassionally? I dont depend on anything to cope with life on a daily basis - they closed for me. They are hypocrites grandstanding over the 'illegal' status of pot. This is important because the only reason I tried the synthetic was because it WAS legal and I couldnt get in trouble for smoking least not legal trouble. I could justify my legal addiction the same way they could.

When something offends our sense of fair play and justice...we rebel. I feel this is what I did, and still do at times. There is no 'one size fits all' solution to addiction. I had a lot of questions people around me couldnt answer - they just kept repeating the same bad arguments. As a result, I stopped listening to them altogether. I knew what worked for me - and I went with it.

I have written a lot on the 'marijuana' message board as well. I'm not sure how my opinions are received. I just know that most people trying to help will just repeat the same old tired cliche's I have heard my whole life. I never put marijuana in the 'dangerous' drug class in terms of addiction, so applying a strategy that works with alcohol, or meth, or heroin is really not all that helpful. I consider myself as 'addicted' to pot as I am soft drinks. Sure , I drink a lot of soft drinks, but I really can quit (and have) drinking them whenever I want - but you gotta know yourself to make this work for you. Some people could smoke pot today...then end up putting a needle in their arm a month later - but I am not one of these people.

Hope this helps

Posted by: trying times November 12, 2014, 9:38 PM
Thanks for the advice Dac,

I really hope in time I can get myself into the same sort of position however I do know myself and also the availability of mj in my area if I was to smoke the real stuff, especially at this fragile time I'm sure it would lead me back to spice and that is not where I want to go, so for now it is just safer for me to stay away from it altogether. Day 10 today, have been feeling great from day 5- now, however today an 'off' feeling has come over me. I can't quite put my finger on it but something just doesn't feel right? Did you experience any kind of feeling like this? Maybe it's just the chemicals in my brain in its seesaw? I have been concentrating on healthy living exercising and eating right, which seems to help, even if it is just to pass the time. You sound a lot like me in trying to understand exactly what is going on with my mind and body as I try to beat this addiction. I found an amazing book called memoirs of an addicted brain by Marc Lewis. It is a facinating look at addiction through the eyes of a junkie neurobiologist. It goes into details about what particular drugs do to the chemistry in the brain and also about what is happening with addiction. It was a really good read but doesn't really go into details about how to beat addiction, I guess this is something we have to learn for ourselves. Anyway I feel much more clear headed, back on track with focus and attention, however with the horrors of withdrawl fading I know now is when the mental battle truely begins. Thanks again Dac, I'm sure of all people you know how good it is to have someone to talk to about this.

Posted by: desperate and scared November 14, 2014, 12:33 PM
My husband is currently on house arrest because of various reasons, one being hos addictions to any high he can get. He's on day 4 of not having synthetic weed because I will not go get any for him. We agreed that he was done once house arrest started as he knew I would refuse to buy it, but thats all out the Window now that he's going through withdrawal (which he refuses to admit) he's begged and literally cried for me to go. He went as far as banging his head on the wall until he falls to the floor. I guess as a tactic to show his desperation and "suffering" as he calls it. I don't know what else to do. We have always fought over his addictions to vicoden, other pills, and synthetic weed! Off and on things have been good and I'm sure what I thought was sober. He's been to jail twice in t her last two years always promising me he will change. We have two kids. I am willing to walk away to protect my kids from his mood swings and addictions. I'm not ready to give up on him because he has potential, he can be better. He is totally against me right now..saying I'm exaggerating and miss perfect because I want a sober husband! He has been a zombie and a complete idiot on synthetic weed. It went from the excuse of needing to sleep (because he works 12hr swing shifts) to every 20 minutes even in front of the kids! I refuse to allow him to destroy himself! can anyone give me advice with what I should do or can do!? He doesn't believe he's addicted.he hates me for not giving in to him. He's against everything I say. I gave him an ultimatum and he still chose fake weed because he can't smoke real weed due to probation ad drug tests. I know If I leave, two weeks later he will call me begging me back! Help!!

Posted by: DAC November 14, 2014, 4:08 PM

You have the right attitude. Staying away is best. 10 days is good progress and you should feel better if you are eating better and exercising. The reading will improve your mind, and that book sounds interesting, I might look into that one myself.

I have been away long enough to pass my drug test. If I get the job , I wont smoke MJ for a while. I also should mention that one of the reasons I do allow myself the occassional experience is because I do comedy. When in the club, sometimes I get to hang around people who I have seen on TV and very rarely even get to go out with them afterward. These, are the times when I will allow myself to smoke.

Sometimes it leads to more smoking, most times not. I dont think I am recommending anyone do what I do. I have my own convoluted reasoning for how I see things. I drink 2-3 beers a week, usually on the night I go the club. Unless a unique opportunity presents itself. But for now - no smoking at all. I would NEVER go back to the synthetic - that stuff is just plain poison.

Also, when you exercise after a long binge of smoking, you cough up a lot of black mucus. I am almost completely clear of that again and the health benefits are making me want to stay away even more.

You sound like you are doing well...keep it up.

Posted by: Matt November 16, 2014, 12:29 AM
I just wanted to thank you guys for your recovery kit/guide. I had been smoking spice/ synthetic marijuana for 2 1/2 years now. It was a long battle to fight, although most of the time I wanted to smoke. For about 8 months now I have been wanting to quit, but found it damn near impossible since my body was craving the chemicals. But I took sometime researching on how to beat this powerful drug, and was unsuccessful time after time. Then, I found this blog. I have to say, this is the perfect kit to kick spice in the a** for good. I quit exactly a week ago, went and bought the products on your kit, and it made it a lot easier. you have to be mentally ready for to beat this beast. But I woke up this morning a new man. And I have you to thank!!
So once again, thank you so much for the information you guys have provided for users to quit. You all are great people and don't change that!

Posted by: Matt November 16, 2014, 12:32 AM
I forgot to add that I have beat the craving completely, I know one week isn't along time, but I'm confident that this is out of my system, and gone for good!!
Once again, thank you

Posted by: Chris Miller November 16, 2014, 3:21 PM
Ok I just smoked and now I'm quitting I'm going to be posting as much as I can about how the next three days will feel as accurately as possible plz comment thanks fir your support have been smoking this since 2009 have to smoke every hour or am completely unbearable feeling in stomach n that's just normal first thirty mins sweaty palms sitting n bouncing

Posted by: Epiphanie November 17, 2014, 3:05 AM
Hi everyone

New here, but felt like posting to give some hope.

I smoked synth for two years, with my husband. It ruined our lives. At the end, we were smoking two 7g packets a day between us...sometimes three. We were spending hundreds of dollars a day on it, literally. We smoked buckets, our tolerance grew. We had no marriage left, our mortgage was paid late. We actually separated four months ago, it destroyed us.

After I left my husband, I found a brand called Illuminati Gold that is imported from New Zealand. I would have a bucket and literally pass out on my feet. I would vomit. I was so sad after the destruction of my marriage, I just didn't want to be alive and present. I was staying with my sister, and she told me that if I kept smoking it, I had to leave. She would find me passed out in the bucket, or standing on my feet drooling. She would walk me into the bedroom and I would wake up and go out and have another bucket. I would wake up in the middle of the night and smoke. I would drop whatever was in my hand because I would just be out on my feet - I passed out constantly. I was a mess.

I realised that I had to stop smoking. You are absolutely right - the first three days are the worst. While you are smoking, it's like you are in a haze. You can't focus on anything except your next smoke. You NEED that next bag. You will go without food to buy it. I was so badly addicted. But if you can get through the first bit of craving and not sleeping - and I also had vomiting and a bit of diarrhea, and I couldn't sleep at all - you get clear of it and you can't believe you ever smoked it.

I am three and a half months clean, and my life is amazing. I am so clear-headed. I am me again. I have money again. I am sleeping fine, I have put on weight (I don't know about anyone else, but it made me really skinny). I am a better friend, a better employee. And I HATE the smoke. I hate it. I will never, ever smoke that crap again. Like many people, I was a daily pot smoker and then couldn't get hold of weed, so turned to the synth stuff. But it's not weed, for me it was more like heroin. And addictive like heroin too, I think.

But you can get through it. I am SO much happier. I am SO much healthier. And I absolutely know, deep within my heart, that I will never touch that stuff again.

So hang in there, everyone. If you are thinking of quitting - go cold turkey. You won't be able to ease off, it doesn't work like that. Stop, and hang in there for the first little bit. It DOES get better. It DOES get easier, and your life will be SO MUCH BETTER.

Hang in there and quit this stuff, your life will be great :)

Good luck, sending you wonderful vibes xxx

Posted by: Trying times November 20, 2014, 10:37 PM
Hi guys,

I hope everyone is doing well and getting the support they need to kick this poison. I am almost 3 weeks clean now, no relapses and apart from a couple of very minor 'craves' that last about 10 seconds before I sort my head out (just reading the stories on this thread is enough) I am doing well and never won't to go back to where I was when my wife left me. I do have a question for anyone who is further through their recovery than me. As I was going though my withdrawal I was dry reaching a lot as most of you know this stuff is evil in the first four days. However now after three weeks I am still dry reaching in the mornings. It only lasts for a couple of minutes and is generally after I have been up for 10-15mins. Anybody else experience these same issues? I feel fine for the rest of the day and don't really have any other side effects, thanks guys and I wish you all the best with your recovery.

Posted by: Mr. & Mrs. D November 22, 2014, 6:08 AM
Good morning everyone. Yes, another night waking up coughing, hacking up a lung, and needing that next hit to move on. My husband and I have been caught in this web for 2 whole years and counting. We have finally decided to quit and came across this page. You people inspire us and give us hope as we didn't think it was going to be possible without putting ourselves in the hospital. We are terrified and excited at the same time. This Wednesday, we will be sending our family on vacation, locking our doors, and getting rid of our demon-synthetic weed. We chose this holiday week, because it is a long weekeND for both of us and the family already had plans to go away. We have already started talking about it in therapy, and that has helped a lot.

Have any of you gone to N A or anything like that? Does it help at all?

Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers while we start this terrifying journey.

Posted by: Trying times November 23, 2014, 5:52 AM
Mr & Mrs D,

Welcome to the forum. It is truely a life changing place. I was in a terrible place three weeks ago, in the crash and burn cycle that it sounds like most of us get to before we realize what this s*** is doing to our lives and the lives of our loved ones. The hardest part for me was admitting I had a problem. I won't say it got easy but it was by and far the best decision I had made in a very long time. I feel so much better, clearheaded and putting my life back together. I read these posts when I start to think that it wasn't soon bad and soon realize just how many lives this poison has ruined. Make your decision, stick with it! Good luck

Posted by: Herbal nonsense November 27, 2014, 9:43 PM
I been dealing with this since 2011 & today is my 2nd day 1 yesterday was my first. I made it all the way thru yesterday no problem. I found that keeping yourself busuy is the hardest part so far. Yesterday, was good until around 4am I woke up drenched in sweat. I suddenly ran to my window an.stood there stuck in a daze for a bout a minute not in control. As I proceeded to lay back down an resume sleep, at the edge of my bed was Raegan froj the excorcist. ScRed I quickly close my eyes only to a head full of demon thoughts and the number 6 everywhere. Opening my eyes back up I began t ok pray and it stopped. I was able to sleep til 11am without relapsing after the incident occurred. Today was good, I kept it in my head that I was finAlly on the right path. I took one hit earlier off of a blunt an was,quite baked for awhile. Since earlier its fine just mentally I am mind f***ed! Wtf was that last night tho? I know I wont go back to it nor for sure but I am just trippin how now that I am clear minded I noticed the all seeing eye popping everywhere along with the number 6 an certain triangle signs youtube, google play, etcc. Help?

Posted by: Papa Bear November 27, 2014, 11:06 PM
If you can "make up your mind" and walk away from this then go for it.

If you are like the millions of addicts and alcoholics that are, in the end, powerless over your drink/drug then AA & NA will save your life. It saved mine and continues to do so on a daily basis since 1989.

All the best.
Bob R

Posted by: Mr. & Mrs. D November 28, 2014, 2:05 PM
Day 2: day 1 was hard, but we made it through. Today is a little better, starting to feel a little more clear minded. Still having urges, so it helps to have each other to stay strong. We are lucky enough to have friends and family checking in on us to make sure we are OK and still strong. Thank you all for your insight and support. You all inspire us and give us hope that we can kick this.

Posted by: Herbal nonsense November 28, 2014, 7:05 PM
Day 3 : dont even think about it anymore..i have it branded in me that life is over with. I am so much more clear minded and just feel better all together. I can just tell the difference in my surroundings an the way people are treating me they can tell ive had enough I just want to help everyone I can possible kick this habit asap!

Posted by: Herbal nonsense November 29, 2014, 5:54 PM
Day 4 ya im done. I dont think about it at all. When someone starts to talk about it I tell th juat by you talking about it. Its winning. You dont outdo evil with evil. There is only one way out. Just STOp. At the same time I cannot be hypicritical because I let this take over my an my entire social.networks life. Good luck an im here for anyone who WANTS help.

Posted by: oscar November 30, 2014, 4:16 PM
Im on my first

Posted by: Travelin man November 30, 2014, 4:44 PM
Hi oscar- day one , congratulations, this is the first day of a whole new life- if you chose it- it aint easy, but it is worth it- if you want it badly enough, very few make it on their own - use whatever support mechanism will work for you- go to Narcotics anonymous if you want to find people in similar circumstances- keep posting here- there are alot of people here that have been where you are- keep reaching out - keep wanting it- worry about tomorrow when it arrives- stay clean for today - stay strong- the best of luck - YOU can DO this-

Posted by: Help please!!!! November 30, 2014, 8:39 PM
Found this site tonight, I need to do something different. I have no control. I own a small business, I can't close my place. Not that I can get past day one anyways. I don't know that posting this will do feels like I'm doing something though. I have to stop!!!

Posted by: Herbal nonsense November 30, 2014, 9:45 PM
Day 5. Best decision of my life. No longer need it. No longer want it. Keep your mind busy and change up your environment, if you really are serious then you really will stop. Realize whatevee ypur goong thru will only get worse if you dont decide to quit for no one else but YOU

Posted by: December 1, 2014, 10:10 AM
If you are looking for support, advice and information about Spice/K2 addiction, is another active community of people suffering from spice/K2 addiction. Lots of advice and support available and hundreds of user stories.

Posted by: timmex1 December 7, 2014, 7:37 PM
OMG... HERE WE GO AGAIN.. Im on day2 after another relapse and I am truly hating myself right now. I cant believe I did it again. First of all I would like to thank you Josh. You have no idea how much reading your posts have helped me. The place I am in right now is pure hell. Im shattered. Broken. And weak. And I am so scared.. 1 year ago I caught a massive HEART ATTACK from smoking this stuff and what do u think I did after leaving the hospital? Yep you guessed it.. right back to the smoke shop smh.. I ask that everyone pls keep me lifted in ur prayers that I may quit befire it kills me.. (Tears)

Posted by: moderator December 13, 2014, 6:21 PM

We moved your post to a new topic, "Boyfriend on Synth." Look there for comments on your post.

- the moderators

Posted by: bill December 15, 2014, 12:17 PM
Day 4, off and on for about 4 years. Actually typing in 4 years makes me realize my problem. I quit two years ago for about a year and a half but then a buddy talked me into trying it again. So ive been off and on for the past 6-8months. I dont have a desire or the restlessness feeling of waiting for the guy who i got it off of to txt me back. "Havent txted him since i dropped the stuff after a long self reflection thur night" never had the vomiting or diarrhea. Just the sweats the initial night and still slight hand tremors. Today i felt more normal but i feel like loopy this comes and goes, and am curious as to when this will reside. My personality is returning and im starting to enjoy life. I dont have that bogged down aggitated mood anymore. When will this loopy feeling start to go away and the past few days ive had to take nyquil to fall asleep, when should sleep schedule getting tired normally again come back? I dont recall feeling this bad the last time i quit but the guy recently switched brands so i think that might have something to do with it. I fully feel that ill never touch this stuff again, reflecting on how much of the past 4 years ive waisted being a TURD!!!!! Ive got too much to lose with my career and all ive worked for and the fact that i put on 30 lbs mostly in the past 3 months from the binge eating just before i pass out not fall asleep made me come to the realization i dont need this garbage. some feedback on my couple of questions would really be appreciated. Goodluck to all

Posted by: DAC December 15, 2014, 5:04 PM

Quitting after a long spell can be rough. The synthetic is a man-made nightmare that has psychological components as well as the physical to overcome. I hope you are able to stay away from this poison. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to help out. It's been a year and a half away from the synthetic for me. You can beat this thing, just have to stay with it.

Posted by: bill December 15, 2014, 7:27 PM
I only did it at night mainly to pass the time and bc i thought/was told it had the same side effects of smoking pot regularly, i dont have the nausea, throwing up, or diarrhea. I have clamy palms and occasionally get the chills. Everytime i quit before i had no side effects. This time though ive been a little anxious and cant sleep unless i take nyquill and really concentrate. Its tollerable though and the only real reason i wld start again is because i didnt realize just how bad it was. I didnt really even crave it, i was ignorant to just how s***ty it is and. Ive smoked pot in the past and wld stop and and take a puff here and there so my understanding of it was it was just like weed. Now that i kno more ill never touch it again, ive always been strong willed so i know im gonna be fine im just thankful i am not in the same situation as many of the other ppl who post. Intake was about 6g a week and id say it was mid lvl strength. Question1 how long do u think the anxious feeling will last? Question2 when will my apetite start to come back and sleep be normal? I can still eat just not as much as i should be. The first day i craved it but after that it doesnt cross my mind. To clear things up ii didnt realize it was addictive and very harmful thats why i never quit for good. If it was called synthetic crack i wlda never tried it, because it was called synthetic marijuana i thought it just was as bad as smoking weed.

Posted by: DAC December 16, 2014, 12:32 AM

The synthetic is not like weed at all really. It has a similiar feeling at times, but it really is like synthetic crack in the way it affects the mind. But that' s not completely accurate either because I have smoked pot, crack, and the synthetic at different times and the only thing that gave me severe withdrawals was the synthetic.

The anxiety thing keeps up for a while, it depends on other things that you have going on in your life as well. Smoking the synthetic will be a short term easing of the anxiety, but then it floods back with even greater intensity each time you do this , so dont do this. Anxiety is a fear based panic that is brought on by worry over events in your life, and drug use increases this panic - it only appears like it is eased when smoking. It's like taking pain meds for a sore knee, then still walking on the knee. The knee will be worse from walking on it more than if you hadnt. The same applies with the brain.

The anxiety I felt was increased by not being able to sleep. For several weeks following my quitting I had trouble sleeping for any length of time. I actually ended up using marijuana to help sleep at one point, but I dont know if I would recommend this. I thought it helped me wean myself off of the synthetic, but I think I would have healed faster if I hadnt done this. But what you are going through is normal , and it will end. How long depends on too many factors to say with any accuracy.

I quit after several long periods of usage...I wrote a ton of stuff on the synthetic weed post that is 63? pages. Most of my writing was in March of 2013 if you wanted to look. The first time I went for over 5 days eating nothing, and almost 10 days with little or nothing at all. Other times 3 or 4 days would be about the worst of it. Just know the appetite comes back eventually, the Beginners guide thread by josh has a lot of good advice on staving this off. I would drink a lot of soft drinks, which I dont recommend either , but at the time they seemed to help.

The real problem is keeping your mind occupied so that you dont think about smoking again. Addictive behavior is all about habits, you need new ones. Whatever your routine before, change it. If you stayed at home - get out. If you watched a lot fo TV - read something. If you do the same thing , you increase the likelihood of going back to it.

The brain does heal itself with time, just have to give it a chance. Man made chemicals are some of the worst compounds to become addicted to. Smoking pot and quitting is a hundred times easier than when dealing with the synthetic. I could smoke pot and put it away no problem, smoking the synthetic always seemed to lead to long binges of use.

Hope this helps

Posted by: bill December 16, 2014, 5:14 AM
It does, from all the reading it seems like i am def withdrawing but on a much minor level, the slight anxiety and sleeping issues were bad the first day woke up in a panic and sweating and ate about 600 cals. Slept 4 hours
Day 2
Anxiety there ate about 900 cals slept 6 hours
Day 3
Anxiety ate about 1000 cals slept 7 hours
Day 4 i was up about 24 hours, 1000 cals and slept 6 hours but now im up into day 5
Day5 no app but i did eat a healthy chicken wrap about 8 hours ago a little anxiety but its bc its 4am and i cant fall back asleep

I want to clarify i do not have an urge ITS JUST EXTREMELY IRRITATING FEELING LIKE THIS, but for the most part i am pretty good and every day the fog in my head and numbness clears more and more and i know that only time is going to make things right, the reading def helps, i have minor ocd so routine is in my nature. Im starting to routine but doing things in a routine without it revolving around the garbage.

Please keep replying with little tips and tricks as this really helps when u can.

I refuse to be a f'in junkie!
Chest is clearing up as i continue to hack up a lung here and there with mucus and brown hard stuff. In it which feels great! I didnt realize how restricted my breathing was!

For those struggling you will be stressed just keep creating eustress and accomplishing goals this helps woth the anxiety and stress.

Posted by: DAC December 17, 2014, 1:49 AM

Withdrawal has a physical component, and it has a mental/psychological component. You might be able to handle the physical...but I found the irritation/frustration part of the mental component to be the real hard thing to deal with. It just changes your mood too much in a down way when you first quit. Your mind cant be stimulated by normal dopamine rewards that are generated by normal pleasurable activities. If the brand you were smoking was potent it could have been providing up to 100 times the THC equivalent found in pot.

If you can run, that is what I recommend. When you run for even 10 minutes or so your breathing will stretch the air sacs in your lungs and will accelerate what you cough up. I started running a month after quitting and I was amazed at the wheezing I encountered the next day from all the excess flim coming up. Also, a strenuous exercise like running will make it easier to sleep, provide natural endorphins, and be a positive reinforcement which helps you stay away for good.

Be aware that just because you arent craving the synthetic, doesnt mean you are over it. I found that the anxiety can increase when your mind comes back and you see missed opportunities and start experiencing regret. Regret, and the resulting depressing feelings can drive you right back to smoking.

I'll try and check back more often if you want additional advice. I have been gone all day....have an open mic to do tomorrow and need a new 6 minutes of material before then. If I was still smoking this would be a VERY hard task , if I wanted to pull it off right. Sober , it will be much easier. This is a main benefit of quitting...the mind is MUCH sharper when clear of marijuana or synthetic.

Posted by: Peedey December 17, 2014, 10:01 AM
DAC, you still hanging out on this thread?

Posted by: Peedey December 17, 2014, 10:23 AM
Haha. Guess I should read the new posts every day. I have been reading this forum for about a year now. When I started reading here, I was not even using spice at the time. I just wondered what other people had been through in quitting this devil of a drug. I am currently on day four of being clean. I feel amazing. The physical wasn't too bad for me, or so it seems compared to some of the stories I've read here. I had all the same symptoms as many of you have listed. Puking, pooping liquid, no sleep, shakes, no appetite, irritable, etc. You all know the symptoms. Day 1 was pretty rough. But reading here that first night helped me immensely. Knowing that I was not an am not alone is a life saver.

This was my third bout with spice. I started several years ago when the original K2 was the big brand. I started because I needed to find a job and had to be able to pass a urine test. Found a job, quit spice without any issues, that time only, and went back to smoking marijuana. I noticed that marijuana didn't really do it for me anymore. Like DAC has said several times, spice is 20-800 times more potent than marijuana. So true. I was living in Michigan at the time and was good friends with a guy who operated a huge grow house with some of the best medical marijuana that money can buy. I had to smoke about a quarter ounce to feel "stoned" like I wanted to.

So I managed to stay off spice for about a year or so. Until I moved out of state. Michigan made spice in any form illegal. Well the state Iive in now does not share the same policy. I live in the biggest city in my state an there is one place that sells spice. It is all the way across town and costs me at least $5 in gas to get there. That helps. So I moved and had to find a job. So I went out and found some spice. Mistake. I didn't realize how much more potent it had become since I last used it. Three months an $7,000 later I was in bad shape. Really bad. If I went more than an hour without I was ready to puke. I found a job that probably saved my life. I was working so hard and for so many hours every day I didn't have time to feel my symptoms. I managed to stay off spice for about 9 months. My job started to affect my relationship because I was gone for weeks at a time. Commercial construction requires lots of travel. So I quit the job. I don't want to lose her to a job. So now I am home every day, bored out of my mind. So one day I was bored and decided to take a trip to the headshop and check it out. Mistake. I got there and went straight to the spice rack. Bought a bag and had a bowl packed as soon as I got in the car. I hit it once and was just gone inside myself for about half an hour. That was back in August. $10,000 later here I am. I have lost all of my possessions. Lost almost all of my friends and family. Lost out on tens of thousands of dollars. Nearly lost the love of my life. She is much stronger than me. I couldn't do what she has been doing for the last year and a half. I wouldn't put up with someone like me. I love her so much for sticking with me and being supportive. After how I treated her, I am surprised she is still with me.

Like I said, today is day four. I feel amazing. I slept for seven uninterrupted hours last night. That hasn't happened since July. The survival kit that Josh mentioned in the very first post on this thread helps a lot. One thing I would add, especially to days 1-3 is Ensure. It will not make you feel full of get rid of any hunger pangs, but it will put valuable nutrients back in to your body. Which is crucial. Healthy body equals healthy mind. Feeling better physically will help you feel better mentally.

I am here for anyone who needs to talk or has questions or needs support. DAC, you have inspired me to help others who are going through what I have been through twice now. I want this time to be it for good. I have no desire to get high anymore. I was at the point of suicide because I wanted away from this drug so bad. It does get better. I know that the first day will seem like your last day on this earth. But don't give up. People do care. More than you know.

Posted by: bill December 17, 2014, 12:52 PM
Very similar to aboves story, day 6 almost over with. went out last night drank and still didnt have an urge. I am a little hungover today and this is when i usually crave it to get rid of the hangover. No cravings at all.dac the last couple times i quit i didnt go through withdrawal. The first day was just a little rough, and also i never read about it. This time however being that it made me feel odd i decided to research, now that i know what i know and that it made me feel s***ty for 3 to 4 days i wont go back. Ive been exercising everyday the past week and eating right. Started taking st johns wort and 5htp at night this is helping for mental stability , vitamin c, and fiber+b vits gummies for the nutrition. As for the anxiety later on i was able to keep working and going to school so although i missed out on fun things i dont think and hope this wont be the case. I was just getting fat again from the binge eating and tired of always feeling hung over from it and was becoming anti social from it. Mentally and physically i feel great, just hungover from drinking last night lol

Posted by: Peedey December 17, 2014, 11:14 PM
Smoked some marijuana tonight. Got stoned. Couldn't believe it. Feel great. Still no appetite, but that will come back with time.

Posted by: DAC December 18, 2014, 10:47 AM
peedley , bill

Stay with the abstinence, at least from Spice , no matter what you do. If you feel weak , smoking marijuana is something that can help, but be careful - it can lead back to the harder stuff if you are still wanting to experience the high and escape part of drug use. If you use it as a sleep aid, to encourage appetitite and such, though? I dont see it as that big a deal , but it really does depend on the individual.

I used to find the 'one size fits all' approach to achieving sobriety very frustrating when I first started talking about spice addiction. Complete abstinence from everything is the best thing for you....but you have to get there first. Advising people that a little marijuana is ok as a 'step down' from addiction is very controversial. But really, if used for pain, sleep, lack of appetite, or anxiety I see it as a temporary solution preferrable to the hard-core narcotics people turn to for the very same thing.

If you are suffering from withdrawals , just remember, there will also be withdrawals from any narcotic used for a length of time to help with pain, sleep, and anxiety as well. You dont need further guilt inflicted upon you by the judgements of others about how you get over spice addiction. Synthetic weed is an 8 out of 10 in terms of addictiveness and withdrawal...pot maybe a 2 or 3...anti - depressants and morphine based pain pills range from a 5 to 10 depending on which medication you take, and how your body reacts. It all depends on the individual, and there is no 'one size fits all approach'.

I am not trying to justify what I've done, dont want to encourage others to use drugs, I just want to express an opinion openly because I believe it helps those in need. Forums like this should remain open-minded and encourage those in trouble to divulge their habits in an attempt to get better. Shutting down people in need only makes them turn inward and ignore advice when given from people who havent walked in their shoes....and I have walked in your shoes.

I will tell you that the closest thing to achieving a spice high is to smoke crack with keep that in mind if you are the type to chase euphoria. You dont want anything to do with smoking crack...mentally addictive, expensive, and heart problems almost always ensue with long term use - stay away from crack at all costs!!

I mention this because I want you to know what the difference in different drugs are. Synthetic weed is like crack in many ways, but worse, because it has chemicals which are truly damaging in even small quantities. If you wouldnt smoke nail polish remover on a cigarette - dont smoke spice.

And know, that this comes from a completely drug free mind. I havent smoked MJ in 2 months, and that was a one time thing that was after another long period of abstinence. I wont take pain meds, depression meds, or even aspirin right now because I am a purist. But that is how my 'all or nothing' personality operates. Other's are different , so keep that in mind.

You need information, and perspectives from someone who has gone thru what you have. That's what I offer...they are just my opinions.

I will try and check in better...I've done a couple open mics the last couple nights and was stressing them because I was playing music onstage for the first time. I replaced my need for euphoria with an interest I had long neglected - comedy. It is my new drug of choice - nothing gets me higher than making a room full of people laugh....and I'm not as good at it when impaired by drugs. So I stay away from everything.

But I will have 2 beers once a week , my lone exception for the moment. So I guess I am not 'completely' drug free.

Keep writing...

Posted by: Peedey December 18, 2014, 8:31 PM

Thank you for getting back. I have been asking myself today why I wanted to smoke pot last night. Part of it was to see if I could still feel a buzz, I think. Another part was to see if it would kick my appetite in to gear. It did not do much to make me want to eat last night. I was more sleepy than I have been in a very long time. Which in itself was almost worth the little money I spent on it. I have pretty much always been a pot smoker. I only ever stopped and switched to spice to find a job, or because I could not find a pot hookup. Situation is a little different now, socially, and I know some new people and was able to find someone who has it should I want more at another day.

I am trying to take a proactive approach to this. I have come clean with family and friends. Not all of them yet, but the ones I know would never judge me no matter what the issue. I am not ready to b judged yet. I don't know if I could handle that right now. Mentally I still feel too fragile to cope with a blow like my grandfather telling me I am a worthless junkie just like my father was. I just don't know if I am ready for that yet. I am doing my best to change my daily routine as well. I am more active the last two days than I have been in months.

Something, actually two things, I would like to bring up. First is my happiness. I have felt so good the last three days. Mentally I mean. I found that little things are making me smile and laugh. It is messed up to even say this, but I almost think that my dopamine receptors have been so screwed up for so long that my brain has somehow learned to make due with lower/lesser amounts of dopamine. I'm not sure if that is even possible. But that is where I am at mentally. I have yet to feel that misery and depression I felt days 1-3 and what so many of you seem so suffer through for so long even after stopping. I have been a drug addict for better than fifteen years. So maybe my brain chemistry is somehow different from all the years of pollution. I don't know but I consider myself extremely fortunate. I am under no illusions that it couldn't still happen. Who knows. Something could set it off at any time. I hope not, but rather than fear that moment and dwell on it I am trying to just stay positive and busy.

Which leads me to my other "thing". I am going to be starting down a path soon. I am going to do whatever I can to destroy spice. I want it out of my city first, then my county, then the state and hopefully one day the entire country. I have already sent out emails to local politicians and city council members. I am going to gather the facts and build support. I want to go to PTA meetings and speak to parents and teachers about the signs and symptoms their kids might be using synthetics. I understand the risks in this. If I am successful, people are going to be upset. Maybe even some people reading this. So be it. This drug is a disease that needs to be snuffed out. We invest literally billions and often trillions of dollars in to researching other diseases. What makes this different? Because it is self inflicted? So is lung cancer and heart disease from smoking cigarettes, yet we willingly invest billions in to researching those. I know it won't be easy and I am by no means expecting immediate results. But I know myself and I also know the motivation of one determined Unitef States Marine. If I put my mind to it, I can do anything. And so can all of you. I thought this was literally going to be the death of me. I did not expect to survive this drug.

I want to end on a really positive note. I did something yesterday/today that brought tears of joy to my eyes. The Salvation Army does this thing around Christmas called the Angel Tree. They put tags with the name, age, and gender of an underpriveleged child and then what they would like for a gift. My girlfriend and I were at the place where the Angel Tree is last night and we decided to take a boys card and a girls card. We went and got the gifts last night. Makeup and a mirror for the girl and a Star Wars Lego watch for the boy. Didn't have time to take them in last night. So we decided we would just get it done first thing this morning before the bad weather gets here, ( which it still has not). I woke up at 6:00 this morning because I was so freaking excited to wrap those presents for those children and take them to the drop off point. I am not exaggerating when I say it brought a tear of joy to my eyes when we gave the gifts to the guy collecting them. We have no children of our own, and decided we are going to do this every Christmas until we have our own children and possibly even after that. Charity is a wonderful thing and I was surprised how good it made me feel to do that. I would say I actually got a buzz of some sort from it.

I would like thoughts on my mission to destroy spice. As I said, I know it will not be easy or fast. But I am in it for the long haul and I guarantee my motivation exceeds the money and reach of the bastards making this poison. I won't stop. I can't. I owe it to all the parents out there whose kids are losing their lives to this. This can be done, someone just has to pick up the ball and run with it. Well guess what? My shoes are on and tied and I'm wearing my game jersey. I'm ready.

Posted by: DAC December 18, 2014, 10:35 PM

You sound like you are going down the right path. Staying proactive and busy is a great approach. And dont beat yourself up about the pot thing. I would go for a couple months completely sober only to go back to smoking pot again for usually a two week binge. I am self employed, no drug tests, and had A LOT going on in my life that was stessful the past couple years. Smoking pot made me sleep like a baby....but be careful, it can feed that side of you that wants to experience everything high again, and you dont want that.

I have a thread called "30 years on and off pot" on the marijuana board. I have had a long relationship with this drug. Like you , I started smoking spice because MJ was illegal and I couldnt risk the damage to my reputation , or the devastation from losing my license if I got caught. It was available at the corner gas station in full view of everyone when I first started roughly 5 years ago.

The feeling from giving is one you want to focus on. I feel I became more aware of my role in life as a result of my drug use. I no longer wanted to achieve status or acquire things because they were empty pursuits to me. I think my drug use made me more sensitive to these desires. I know that they made me feel things more intensely, and that the true person you are inside comes out sometimes under the influence of a drug or alcohol. As long as that person is good, past drug experiences have a beneficial quality. You seem like a good person, your experiences have helped you discover things about yourself. Now go out and do go things with this knowledge now that you are sober. I get the same feeling from connecting to people in the comedy clubs....but secretly...shhhh I do a lot of giving and spend a lot of time doing things for which I receive nothing. I get a GREAT feeling from doing so....but I would rather people who know me just to see me as a burned out pothead with a potty mouth :)

As far as making synthetic illegal, I couldnt agree more. But listen, it has been illegal where I live for almost 2 years, it is still around. It went underground like any illegal substance does, but it is around and cant be stamped out by law enforcement. I know a person who was making the stuff...getting the chemicals directly from China, and mixing batches himself. He would sell it the same way a weed guy would, and for many of the same reasons. He was addicted , had an expensive habit, and he could support it by making his own. He is not an evil guy, just has an evil problem. But after a year and a half away from it I have no desire to ever ask him for any....and I could have at any time. You will feel the same when you get away from it for a while.

Keep reading, stay busy, and when troubled - write. This is a time of growth for you. The drug use has torn you down. Rebuild yourself now and make something out of the experience. Sometimes mistakes make us grow in ways we never could had we had not made them.

Posted by: Deathcon3000 December 19, 2014, 1:12 AM
Hi Everybody. Well where should I start, A little about myself mabye? Im 34 and have a beautiful wife and 3 amazing kids and a good job that somehow I have held onto for these past years I have been addicted to spice. Im on a emotional roller coaster right now and on my 4th day of not smoking any spice and let me add I cant smoke real weed because I am drug tested regularly and could lose my job and to be honest this has always been my excuse on why I turned to spice. I have spent so much money on this stuff and havnt even bought any christmas im just sad and to top it off I havnt been to work in this 4 days because I have had flu like symptoms etc. And im afraid even though I got a doctors note I could be fired tommorow when I return to work im so scared. Im ready to never smoke this stuff again and be happy. I cant sleep, im really angry, and d eppressed this is bad and I dont know how to get through all of this, im scared im gonna wanna smoke again and I really want to quit for good I just hope its not to late. Thanks for anyone that is listening cause I need someone to talk to and a doctor is not optional because of my job I might still have. Any advice?

Posted by: Papa Bear December 19, 2014, 9:05 AM
I suggest you get your priorities in focus.

If you don't get off the drugs the job will disappear anyway.
(along with wife, family, home and self-respect)

Getting clean is #1 !!

When I was coming to the end of my drinking/using career it was amazing how many bad/wrong decisions I made. I needed help... BAD !!

I found that help in AA/NA in 1989 and my life has continued to improve since then.

I wish you the best.

Bob R.

Posted by: Peedey December 19, 2014, 9:32 AM

Things are about to get better for you, physically. From what I have read here and other places most people's physical withdrawal symptoms begin so substantially reside around days 4-6. You have the worst part beat, physically. Don't try to force food. Don't try to force anything. Just do what you feel you can do without overdoing it. I got really depressed last night when I tried to eat a sub from my favorite place in the entire world, Subway, and nearly puked after two bites. You can only do what your body can handle.

Have you tried coming clean to your wife? Does she know the depths of your addiction, or even that you were/are addicted? That can be a tremendous help. Just having someone there to listen and not judge you. It sounds like you are serious about wanting to get away from spice. And for that I commend you. That is a huge first step. Making the decision to quit spice, KNOWING full well that you are about to endure at the very least a week of absolute and pure hell, is an enormous step. A very important step on your road to recovery.

You are not alone Deathcon. We have all been through what you are going through. Nobody here is going to judge you or look down on you. Even if it goes the worst way possible and you have a relapse. We've all done it. Some of us after a year or even two years clean. It happens to the best and worst of us. You have a support system here, all you have to do is take the time to ask for the help.

Stay focused and don't give up. It is about to get much better for you. The fog is lifting.

Posted by: Deathcon3000 December 19, 2014, 5:35 PM
I want to thank you guys for your advice and look forward to talking with y'all more. Today started out angry but I have gotten better through out the day and I didn't get fired! Phew. I let my wife know about my addiction and even though she was upset she said she would help me get through this! Ofcourse I cant stop thinking about it(spice) I am gonna have to find somthing to do to get my mind off it... I thought about buying a e-cig... I have such an addictive personality and take whatever im into at the moment way to extremes.. im guessing you guys are like that too? I will update and thanks for listening.

Posted by: Peedey December 19, 2014, 10:20 PM

I have been known to take things to the extreme. I found a way that works for me to keep my extreme tendencies in check. I make a game of it. I have a very hard time with anyone telling me what to do. Even if I know it is for my own good or benefit. It just doesn't sit well with me. Guess that could be part of the reason I never really fit in the military. I could take orders, sure. But I hated it and it was obvious. Anyways, what I like to do when I find myself going crazy with something is to FORCE myself to wait five more minutes. Then five more. Then five more. It doesn't always work, obviously due to my craziness with spice. But most of the time I can use this method to make myself wait for whatever it is I am trying to use at extreme levels. I do it with cigarettes all day long. I could EASILY sit and chain smoke two to two and a half packs a day. But with my method I can usually keep it around 14-18 cigarettes in a 16-20 hour waking period. I do it with marijuana when I can as well. Before this last bout with spice I was smoking about a quarter ounce a day. Now I have smoked only an eighth of an ounce in about three days. So it can be done. It helps to stay busy. You said you have three children. Play with your kids. Get on the floor with them and just go nuts dude. Act like them. Have fun. Play with toys. Color in a coloring book. Sing silly songs. Watch SpongeBob SquarrPants. Play video games with them, if they indulge. Take your ole lady out on a date night. Do anything different than what you would normally do when you were smoking spice.

As for the anger, I can totally relate. I have been snapping on my girlfriend for no reason at all for the last five days. She knows what I am going through, which doesn't make it right or mean she is okay with it. But it does mean that she understands and is willing to work with me. For instance, earlier we went and got a pizza. Well I didn't want to sit at home and eat so I suggested we just go park the car somewhere and eat our fill in the car then go home. She agreed to it and then asked me where I'd like to go. I lost it. Started yelling and threatening to just leave because I am tired of the way I treat her. Two minutes later I was crying and apologizing to her. I don't know why I snapped. That is just one example of many instances in the last few days. So it does happen to some of us. Some others may not get the anger and irritability. Try to find the root cause of your anger. That is what I am working on now. Trying to figure out why I am so angry. I have a couple ideas, and I will figure it out. But don't be afraid to ask yourself the hard questions. And, in turn, don't be afraid to be honest with yourself and realize the hard truths about yourself. As the fog lifts you will begin to investigate your life and analyze your behavior over the time you were on spice. This is going to be a depressing time. Depressing, but in my mind necessary. We need to identify our issues so that we can make work to change the causes of those issues or at least find a better way of dealing with them.

Nobody said it would be easy, Deathcon. But it will be good, eventually. You are making wonderful progress and will soon feel better than you have in a very long time. As for the e-cig. Do you think you can handle smoking anything right now, or would it maybe be a trigger for you? I know some people have very sensitive triggers. It can be the smallest thing that pushes them in to a relapse. Total abstanance may be the best route for some people. If you are not a regular user of nicotine, the e-cig could give you a buzz, which may trigger a relapse. I'm not saying don't do it. Maybe it would help. But I am saying be 100% sure you can handle it. I occasionally smoke a Blu e-cig and every once in a great while my girlfriend will ask for a puff. Know why? Because it gives her a little nicotine buzz. She is a non-smoker. So just be careful. If you think it would help, and it wouldn't trigget a relapse, maybe give it a try.

Let me know how things go for you over the weekend. Physically I can say that I finally feel great. Still weak from days of not eating, but other than sweaty palms and feet, my physical symptoms are gone. I feel fortunate it lasted less than a week for me on the physical aspect of it. That is what I feared the most. This drug is harder to kick than heroin. I know that from personal experience. I was never a needle user, but I was putting about $125 a day worth of smack up my nose. I thought I was gonna die when I got off the H. But this makes that seem like a cakewalk.

Posted by: DAC December 20, 2014, 12:23 AM
Stay with it guys...the anger, the frustration, the depression ALL normal for the withdrawal process. Read up on PAWS if you want more info about that. But your emotions will run hot and cold all the time while your body and mind are adjusting to life without spice.

I noticed a much more severe reaction when withdrawing than anything I had ever recovered from before. I once had a coke habit that was pretty intense...but so easy to put down once I decided to. After a day or two away I really had no problem with it at all. Weed is something I have stopped many times in my life after long binges. Again, no real problem at all stopping when I really wanted to. But spice gave me trouble time and time again when trying to stop for good. I think because it is so powerful it just really leaves a craving that reminds you almost non stop of your desire to use. I know I would smoke every 15 minutes when I was really into it. Once you stop that kind of use it leaves a huge hole that you must fill.

Just know that the anxiety/depression you feel will make you want something to calm your nerves. Dont give in, it will ease at the 1 week, 2 week, and 1 month abstinence periods. Your mind will heal itself , but you have to give it a chance to do so by not going back to smoking. Trust me, I've been where you are at several times when quitting puff will quickly return you to all day every day smoking. This is NOT weed, weed you can manage. If you have an all or nothing personality like me, just one puff of synthetic will lead to another extended binge.

Dont do it!

Posted by: Deathcon3000 December 21, 2014, 5:42 PM
Well 7 days later and I feel like somethings majority wrong...I honestly feel not as smart as I use to be and have noticed I forget things like instantly and my wife has to repeat her self to me. She had been getting frustrated with me and said I was acting scared about the damage u have done to myself! I have bags under my appetite and when I do eat I feel nausea just of the sight of any food. I did purchase an e-cig even though i have never been a heavy tobacco user unless of course I was smoking spice. I like the e-cig it helps with the wording and anxiety I am going through. Also I have trouble sleeping now as I did before when I was smoking spice hopefully as you guys state that will pass. The best thing so far is my mind feels clearer but I still feel cloudy or weird somthing is just not right I hope this passes soon. I deleted my hookup out of my phone even though I know where he lives and my addiction also reminds me of that. You have a good point about the e-cig DAC.. I found my self looking for synthetic e cig oils on the internet at work last night at work and bookmarking the plan is to get internet and mabye game on multiplayer yo give me something else to do except smoke the e-cig all the time and also I have got a gym membership now but havnt started to go yet. This is my weekend so far I have to be at work at 5pm and feel like crap....worried about the Tim I got to get ready and leave... ttyl

Posted by: Peedey December 21, 2014, 7:59 PM
I am right here with you in not feeling "right". I can't even begin to describe how I feel because I don't know. It is really freaking weird. But I am playing with it. Making a game out of it. Messing with myself to try and sharpen my mind. Not being cruel to myself or anything. Another thing I have read about here in the past is the loss of feeling in my body. I put this to the test last night. I literally feel NO pain. I feel pressure and have a sense of something touching me. But I literally feel no pain. I can't explain it. I tried last night. Nothing did it. I am a cutter from way back. 20+ years. I wasn't cutting last night, but I was getting kinda extreme. I may have broken my right pinky knuckle. I don't know. It doesn't hurt though. It didn't when I did it. It throbs, but there is zero pain associated with it. I don't plan to continue testing my pain tolerance. I am not out to do permanent physical damage. I just wanted to see if there was an actual threshold. If there is, I couldn't find it.

Still doing really good though. Sweaty palms and feet are driving me bonkers though. I hate the feeling of slimy feet. I hardly think about smoking spice at all and I am really impressing myself with how well I am keeping the pot smoking in check. So far I have not smoked more than three bowls of just regular quality pot. So around $5 a day. And I am not even smoking it daily. Haven't smoked a puff today. Cigarettes, of course. But that will always be there. I have no desire to quit cigarettes right now or even in the foreseeable future.

Deathcon you have to try and keep your brain active. I know it's really hard right now. Nearly impossible seeming. But you can do it. I was looking at the spice liquids too right before I quit. After reading about that stuff now that I am away from spice, I am SO glad I never made that jump. I would have ended up dead. I guarantee it. On a more expedited schedule than I already was on. Try video games with a chat feature in the game where you can talk to real people, in real time. That helps me a lot. I play Clash of Clans with some online friends from another app. They keep me busy. I cand clean to them an asked them not to judge me and asked for help. The response was almost overwhelming. You would be surprised who is willing to help, when they know there is a problem. Did you try playing with your kids? Acting like them? Not sure of their ages but of they are like 3-6 years old, acting like them will make you feel surprisingly good. Trust me on that. As adults we don't often get opportunities to just play around like a little kid on the floor with actual physical toys. Seriously. Try it.

Posted by: DAC December 22, 2014, 9:42 AM
deathcon & Peedey

Quitting isnt easy, if it was you would have done it a long time ago. Each of you has a new committment, a new awareness of what this drug is though - so dont go back to smoking , the regret will consume you if you do.

With other drugs there is a consistency....a level at which you cant experience any more of a high than to just take more and more of it. With Spice the man made chemicals have steadily increased in potency and in the amounts put in the various brands over time. For excessive, all or nothing types like us, this takes us far away from where we started when we first smoked the synthetic.

This is why weed is so easy to manage Peedey. Before spice your excessive tendencies would make you smoke up to a quarter a day to chase the euphoria you wanted. Now, it simply isnt possible to match that high no matter how much pot you smoke. This is why just a little from time to time will is your methadone following a long heroin run. Pot doesnt do the same thing as the synthetic does.....but it helps. This reality will also make you want to put it away for longer periods of time because you will notice that is the only way to increase the euphoria from pot. I would go 6 - 8 weeks sober regularly, then smoke pot and have a somewhat pleasureable experience again. But then I would binge for a week or two and find that it didnt do much at I had to wait for another almost 2 month period in order to get it to work like I wanted again. Now , I am past my normal sobriety period and have no desire to smoke at all. It took me a year and a half to get to this point.

Deathcon, the memory and fog thing will get better - you have not done permanent damage. You do damage your brain when smoking though....short term memory will be terrible. The ability to focus is also diminished...Smoking the synthetic excites electrical activity in the brain similiar to a coke high...but also damages short term memory by killing off neurons in mass. The good news is that you have trillions of neurons....and your mind is very flexible and will develop new neural paths that will overcome these problems just. stay. away from smoking and you will get better.

I feel as sharp today as any time in the past 5 years, but with a perspective on life I would have never had if I had not experienced the downturn I encountered with the synthetic. I liken it to what a cancer survivor must feel after a full recovery. They dont worry about the chemo damage, or that their health was in terrible shape when sick once they recover. When they get their health back they dont take it for granted anymore, and are thankful they were able to recover. Right now you are suffering some of the mental drawbacks from smoking this poison - and your emotions and guilt are a bit overwhelming....but it will get better I promise, just keep away from the drug that put you here in the first place.

Deathcon...focus on your kids - I am going to fix breakfast for mine right now - something I hardly ever did when smoking. Peedey get out and socialize....the chat through game thing is a great start, so is coming here. Connecting with others is the best way to recover - because extended drug use isolates.

I'll check back later - write whatever questions you have, it helps you work things out for yourself.

Posted by: Papa Bear December 22, 2014, 11:14 AM
Willpower is useless against our addiction if you are an alcoholic or addict. In the long run it keeps repeating itself in our lives ... continually getting worse. Until it kills us or I kill me.

I could always quit drinking/drugging .... but I couldn't stay quit.

I had to get honest about 1 thing in the beginning,
Do I have a problem with alcohol/drugs or am I an alcoholic/addict ?

If you are a problem drinker/user just quit using ... problem solved !
If you are an alcoholic/addict and you quit using ... your problem(s) are just starting.

AA & NA gave me my life back in 1989 and continues to help me grow in sobriety, sanity and serenity today as I work it "one day at a time".

I wish you all the best.

Bob R

Posted by: Peedey December 23, 2014, 2:24 AM

Any ideas why I can't feel pain anymore? I have a theory. You said our brain destroys neurons. Well I wonder if my pain neurons were some of the first to go because my brain saw them as not essential to getting high on spice, so eliminate them. We all know the physical pain associated with smoking spice. We all get that stabbing pain in our guts. So I'd like your thoughts on it. Anyone's thoughts on it, for that matter. Does this seem logical or am I grasping at straws here trying to make sense of something I can't really understand. I am no dummy, but I am not a biologist either.

Deathcon, where ya at buddy? How are you doing? Thought I'd see a reply from you by now. Been wondering about you all day today and how things are going. We are basically at the same point, in days clean I mean. So keep me informed on how you're doing.

Posted by: DAC December 23, 2014, 4:17 PM

You speak of not feeling physical pain...I felt it more along emotional lines. I know both the body and brain change during drug use. Neural patterns develop to achieve the most desireable dopamine reward. The mind can subjugate pain when it interferes with achieving its primary's 'reward'.

Dopamine rewards are to encourage behaviors in life that help us survive. We get them from eating the right foods, exercise, and for injesting substances that help us in other ways. The first two are what you need to focus on right now. The latter involves a need that isnt physical...that need to connect, or escape, or unwind - it is more 'spiritual' in nature. Drugs can confuse the brain into thinking this is the ONLY thing that is important...consequently it will reward you with the highest dopamine amounts for indulging in it. The higher your stress, anxiety, or need for expression and discovery the more dopamine your brain will produce to encourage use.

But the brain is only interested in short term gains in how it rewards us chemically. Drugs are a short term fix....not a solution. So your pain, whether it be physical or emotional, will not be the same immediately after quitting. Understanding that you can recover from both in time is what you should focus on now. Each day away is a step towards recovery. It's the same reason pot doesnt work the same now either. It's like trying to satisfy the brain with a diet coke after years of energy drinks. Take some time away and your tolerance will go away and life will be the 'drug' you seek.

Like saying put the chips away and walk a mile a day to a grossly obese person. Simple advice, but hard to do sometimes.

Keep writing, understanding yourself happens when questions are answered. Helping you answer them helps me...that's how the 'group thing' works in recovery. Not all want to go to meetings to get this, in this day and age we can also get them online. All about shared experiences, honesty, and growing an understanding of the problem that leads to freeing yourself from it.

Posted by: Deathcon3000 December 24, 2014, 3:32 AM
well the past two days I have felt so much better... I made vegetable soup the day before yesterday and at the whole dang crock pot full...and for some reason Gatorade tastes better than ever before. The clouds have finally lifted I cant believe it took that long. I was given a joint from one of my friends of some really good pot and even though I was so tempted to smoke it I refused and finally gave it away. I havnt felt this way in 3 plus years and to be honest it feels great because I know my future will be so much better. I have been playing legos with some my youngest son and play doe and he seems to be enjoying that time with me. I know I have a long road ahead of me I have used drugs my whole life... weed being my first choice but due to my federal license I always turn to drugs that get out of my system quicker....thats what eventually led me to spice and I hsve never been much of a drinker. I have been having pains in my chest over my pains in my groin area and i still have diariea I havmt had a solid stool in I dont know how long... Hopefully this gets better as time goes on. I keep saying to myself if I only didn't have this type of job I could smome weed.. but would that ever be enough? As for anything I do I take it to extremes and I would smoking all the time im sure and that wouldn't be good. Im getting internet friday and I bought a ps3 so I will try that...along with the gym...we will see. Its gonna be a battle but a battle im willing to keep fighting I hope I can make it.

Posted by: Jackie December 24, 2014, 9:41 AM
How can I help get a bill to stop the sale of this stuff stopped have lost a cousin to it and afraid of losing my son to it.

Posted by: Peedey December 24, 2014, 11:06 AM
Well I tried to post last night before bed. I took almost an hour typing out something that really moved me. So now I am on a computer, to type it again, and not lose an hour if my fat, calloused thumb hits a wrong button. So here goes.

I was moved last night. Moved to tears. I have not cried once since losing my father back in early 2001. In order for you to understand what moved me, I have to give some back story. Normally I go out of my way to keep my identity and location a secret when I am online. This moved me so much I am breaking my one rule. I live in Milwaukee Wisconsin. This past April a young man named Dontre Hamilton was shot and killed in Red Arrow Park by former Milwaukee police officer Christopher Manney. Manney was on the force at the time, but has since been fired for his violation of police protocol on the day in question. I have been extensively following this story as I have never lived somewhere where the police had shot and killed a seemingly innocent person. So here are the facts I know. On April 30th of this year Dontre was sleeping in the park, near a kiosk of a certain major coffee retailer. One of the employees called the police to report a homeless man sleeping near the kiosk. A short time later two uniformed Milwaukee police officers responded to Red Arrow park and made contact with Dontre for a welfare check. They spoke to Dontre and deemed him to not be a threat to himself or others, and therefore was within his legal rights to hang out in the park. So they left. Half an hour later, Dontre is still there laying on the ground near the kiosk. The employee calls again and says the homeless guy is back. The same two officers who responded the first time were still in the area so they went to the kiosk and explained to the employees that Dontre was not bothering anyone and was allowed to be in the park since it was within normal park hours. They, again, left. They did not make contact with Dontre this time. No sense bothering someone who is obeying the law. I have to note here is where facts become not facts anymore. I can only form an intelligent opinion based on the testimony of witnesses and the testimony of former officer Manney. Around this time, Manney finishes up a call along our River Walk. He returns to his cruiser and checks his voice mail. He hears the message about the welfare check in Red Arrow Park and decided to see if it was still active since he was in the area already. Manney calls dispatch and they inform him that there is no longer a call for Red Arrow Park, he requests them to make one, since he is in the area anyways, and decided to swing by to check it out. He arrives at Red Arrow Park shortly after that, and parks his cruiser and begins to walk towards the kiosk. He then notices Dontre laying on his back on the sidewalk of the park. Dontre also noticed him at this time and snapped his head and eyes to attention in Manney's direction, leading him to believe Dontre could be under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Here is where things go bad. Dontre was a mentally disturbed individual. Milwaukee police protocol is to never initiate a search of a mentally disturbed person if they do not pose a threat to themselves or others. So Manney asked Dontre to stand up and starts talking to him. As Dontre stood up, he turned his back to Manney and raised his hands over his head. Manney initiated a frisk of Mr. Hamilton, which is where the violation of protocol that Manney was fired for happened. At this point Dontre slams his arms down to his side, pinning Manney's hands. Dontre spins to face Manney and punches him in the process. Manney shoves him and Dontre grabs Manney by the arm and pulls him back towards him so hard it dislocated Manney's rotator cuff and tearing his bicep. Manney uses an open palm strike to the chin of Mr. Hamilton, seeming not to faze him. So at this time Manney uses his left hand to draw his baton. He was not carrying a taser at the time, which would have been in the place of the baton, but did have OC spray on him. He says he went for his baton because he was using his right hand to defend against Mr. Hamilton, so was unable to reach down and grab his OC spray. He draws his baton and passes it to his right hand, then striking Dontre in the rib cage. Dontre again slams his arm down and pins the baton this time, and then spins away from Manney, taking the baton with him. So now Dontre is armed. He attacked Manney with his own baton, striking him in the head and neck area. Manney is backing up, or stumbling backwards, at this time and draws his weapon, a Smith & Wesson .40 caliber semiautomatic pistol with a 14 round magazine. He yells to Dontre to stop, you don't want this fight, get on the ground, etc... Dontre does not listen and lunges at Manney. Manney fires his weapon, striking Dontre is the chest 4 or 5 times. Dontre stops for a second, again seemingly unfazed by this, and lunges at Manney with the club up over his head in an aggressive posture. Manney unloaded his weapon in to the chest of Dontre Hamilton. Dontre was pronounced dead at the scene a short time later. This past Monday our District Attorney made the decision not to charge former officer Manney with a criminal charge in a press conference. The family was destroyed. They have waited eight months for this decision, and now they feel absolutely powerless.

I know I have gotten really far away from the subject of spice withdrawal and addiction. Getting back to it now. I decided to go down to Red Arrow park last night. I don't know why. I don't know the Hamilton family. I have no idea what called me down there last night. Whatever it was, I am thankful. On my way there I stopped and bought a single rose to leave on the spot where Dontre was shot and killed. Again, I don't know why. So I get there and I hang out near the back of the crowd, they have been protesting in this park for months, and just observe. I went to the flag pole and left the rose there. Nobody is going to stand on top of a flag pole so I felt it would be safe at the base of the pole. It was about ten feet from where Dontre died. I went back to my car and drove home, and just thought along my way. When I got home, I was overcome with emotion. I started crying. Bawling. Sobbing. I don't know why. My views on the legal issues in this case are the same as they have always been and will not change. I may have an opinion on the law, but my views on the law are you should obey them. Plain and simple. Doesn't mean I agree with said laws or like them, but they are in place for a reason. But I feel sorrow for this family. I can't know what the loss the experienced is like. I wrote a poem. Yes, a poem. Not a long one, or a pretty one. But I wrote a poem. I put my pen to paper, a note card actually as it was all I could find at the time, and let my heart guide my hand. I titled the poem A Rose for Dontre, which was the only thing I was sure about when I started writing. Fifteen minutes later I was done. I didn't have to sit and think about what to write, or think "what rhymes with _________". I simply started writing. When I was done, I felt so much better.

So thank you DAC. Once again you have been an inspiration to me. Had I not been reading your posts here for the last year I probably wouldn't have had to the courage to post here or the desire to write last night. You have already helped me more than I can express in writing, and I hope you continue to be here for me and others as we all go down this path together.

Deathcon and Jackie. I will be right back to post concerning your posts. Today is my birthday and I have to eat breakfast real quick. Not often I get a custom breakfast just what I like, and just for me. So I shall return.

Posted by: Peedey December 24, 2014, 12:17 PM

Way to go buddy. So proud of you for staying strong. I was worrying about you and wondering if you finally just said screw it and gave in. Giving that joint to somebody else probably felt extremely empowering for you. You're right. It wouldn't have been the same or probably enough. I am speaking from experience. Even now I can feel my tolerance for pot rising. I haven't been getting the desired effects from small amounts like I was those first couple days off spice. I have been focusing on just trying to be happy I can feel anything at all. I have always had a love affair with marijuana. I don't know that I will ever stop. It has always just been a part of who I am, and has never caused me any serious issues in my life. It has cost me one job, that I would not have liked or been happy at anyways, and would have just ended up walking out anyways due to messed up management and crappy co-workers. So maybe that was a blessing in disguise. Who knows. But now knowing how strong I am mentally and physically, if something ever required me to stop or quit, know that I could. I just have to want to. So happy you are reconnecting with your kids too man. You have a lot of lost time to make up. I don't mean that to sound harsh or anything, but it is the reality of it. I thank God everyday that I don't have children. I couldn't deal with the guilt you probably feel behind this devil drug. I know how guilty I feel for robbing my family and loved ones of the real me for the time I have lost to this drug. I also know that I can never make up for it, only try to move on and make the future much better than the past. You should try to do the same. Beating yourself up a little bit over this could help you realize just how bad off you were. I'm sure you already have, just based on your posts. But we need to step back and evaluate ourselves so we do not continue to make the same mistakes in the future. We are smart enough to learn from this and gain a valuable life lesson.

Now to you, Jackie. My heart goes out to you. Truly. You are among friends here and I am currently working to eliminate spice. It nearly killed me. I wanted to take my own life just to escape it. I didn't see any other way of getting away from it. You can back read my posts if you'd like. I haven't been posting long, but I have been very honest and open. All of the posts here, from Josh's initial post about the detox kit, to this post I am writing now, are good sources. Even though you don't use, it will help you. Trust me. It can prepare you for what your son/daughter will eventually go through when they decide to get away from this crap. And eventually he or she will. They just have to get to that decision on their own. You can't make if for him or her. Forcing someone to do something is the worst possible way to get positive results. If the desire to quit is not there, you just became public enemy number 1 to the addict. You are the one and only thing keeping them from feeling better. Because let's face it, at the point of addiction we aren't using to feel high or good. We use to feel normal. We use so we can function, or so we think, while letting whatever the drug of choice is take away our functionality. Read DAC's posts. He thought spice was helping him overcome his social anxiety and made it so he was more fun to be around, when it actually was doing the opposite. He, and all addicts really, feel so bad when we aren't under the influence we don't even see how bad we've really become. It is a nightmare. A waking nightmare. I never understood that until this last bout with the devil. I now understand those two words perfectly. Waking nightmare.
Start locally. Start in your town or city. Not sure how big your city is. I am fortunate and live in Milwaukee, which is the biggest city by size and population in Wisconsin. There is only one place that openly sells spice here, and I am already working to get that changed. I have been talking to the owner of the shop and basically told him he can choose to take it off his shelves, or let the state government do it for him. I have told him about my experience with it. He is sympathetic to my cause, believe it or not. He has kids of his own, and can't imagine what he would do if he found out one of his own kids was using this crap. He would probably sell them a bag is what I told him, and I think that affected him. He couldn't deny it. That's what this drug is to the people making it. A pay day. A huge frickin pay day. They are making millions off this in Milwaukee alone. I have seen the numbers. He showed me an average days sales of this stuff. For a Wednesday, that was the random day he showed me numbers for, just a couple weeks ago, they made over $75,000 in one day. At $48 for a 10 gram bag, that is astronomical amounts of money. And that is just one shop in one city. Imagine what some of these large companies who make this crap are bringing in? Hundreds of millions of dollars. SO just to warn you, that is what you are going up against. A mountain of cash. It will not be easy. But I have been working on a plan. You have to start locally. Aiming too high on this will get it shot down by the manufacturers. I am an extremely intelligent person. I know my IQ. I know my life experiences. I also know how motivated and determined I can be once I get something in my head. I managed to find a way to stay high on spice all this time, without a job or money, so I know I can motivate myself to do amazing things. Write letters. Send emails. Make phone calls. Be that annoying mosquito in the ear of your city councilmen or aldermen. Give them hell. Don't be harassing, but don't be a puppy dog either, or at least be a pitt bull puppy. Be aggressive. You are going to get shot down. Constantly. For a lot of people, when it comes to spice, if it isn't in their faces they have no idea it is even still around. Go to PTA meetings. Go to gas stations who don't sell it and ask them if you made signs saying "We don't sell spice" would they put it up in the window. Tell them what you are trying to do. Communication is key in this. But you have to start small. One person against hundreds of millions of dollars is destined to fail. You can't climb over that mountain of cash. I guarantee it. But you know what we can do? We can light it on fire and watch it burn. Get people you know who are dealing with the same thing, an addicted child or loved one, to stand with you. I'm sure you are not the only parent whose child is hooked on this crap in your community, no matter how small. Just don't give up. Please. I am begging you. Keep up the good fight. I was so excited to read your post I almost cried again. To see that someone else wants this crap gone, and knowing what you must be going through, motivated me. I will use this motivation in my own fight against this junk. Please, I urge you, back read this forum thread. All the way from the first post. You are among good people here. Most of us are addicts and former users of spice. But there are some who are in the same exact place, or were in that same exact place. Concerned Mama is the only one coming to mind at the moment, but I know there are a couple others. You are not alone, Jackie. I promise you. Please stay in touch. If you are serious about this I would be willing to pass along a contact for you so that you can reach me directly. It is an anonymous internet app for mobile phones, so you wouldn't actually have my real name or phone number or anything, so I am okay with that. If this crap is going to go away, at least underground like all the other drugs, people have to stand together. Communication is going to be crucial. I am under no illusions, DAC. I realize I probably won't be able to make spice disappear. But I can try. And I will try. I appreciate you pointing out what could and will go wrong while I do this. Seeing someone else say what I was already thinking was a reality check. I have grand ideas about this, but the reality is this, it won't be easy. It is going to be the hardest thing I have ever attempted in my entire life. But I am ready for this fight. Gloves are off and my fists areballed. Bring it, spice.

Posted by: DAC December 27, 2014, 5:14 PM

Sorry it seemed like I disappeared...I tried to share a facebook video and ended up losing everything on my computer. I had to re-install windows, and with the holidays was only able to get up and running today.

I notice things about your post that remind me a lot of myself when I first started writing for the first time about 3 years ago. Long, unbroken, writing with no paragraphs and such. I know for me it indicated I had saved up A LOT of opinions and narrative that I had been holding onto for years. When I started to write, I couldnt stop, didnt want to stop. It was like releasing a flood gate of expressions, once started , it wasnt going to ease until I got it out.

I still havent got it out though, probably never will. Which is good, I have value to these opinions now that I never did before. You can do the same with what is stirring you to pour yourself out upon these message boards. Expression is healthy, repression unhealthy. So keep letting it out and I will keep checking in to respond.

I have family, an older son just broke up from a girlfriend, and all sorts of drama going on in my life right now. But none of this upsets and effects me the way it used to. I think it is because I have found a few places to release my expressions and opinions where I will get responses and feedback. Often , family cant do this at all, not their fault, they just cant take themselves out of the equation. Everything becomes about them - and eventually you will just shut down to keep from angering them. Which is what I have found myself doing almost every day.

But it gets better. I go onstage, do radio, write in blogs, and have found many online who pursue truth over self validation. The drug argument is complicated...I myself smoke nothing, take no pills, and only have the occassional drink at a social function to even call drug use anymore. I have been this way most my life....but sadly, I am seen as the pothead, the spicehead, druggie, or some other label. Often by people who are hopelessly addicted to prescription meds... Sometimes that irony makes me respond offensively, which I has only made things worse with those I love.

So write when stirred up...write to people who wont judge you - like here. It helps...

Posted by: Peedey December 29, 2014, 12:25 AM

Glad to see you're still around. I understand people have lives away from the Internet and don't always go to their online "hangouts". The holiday was busy for me too. It felt really good to get out again and be around some normal people, and some not so normal people. Strange how I feel about other addicts and users that I know in my life. Even more so when thinking about my direct family who are users. Like my mom. 30+ years as a heroin and methadone addict/user. Knowing now that, at least for awhile, I have to keep her at arms length. We have a toxic relationship to begin with, so I tread carefully.

As for my writing style. I'm glad you brought that up and shared some insight on it. I have almost always written that way, online. When I write on paper, my sentence structure and phrasing and the way it all looks is much better. I guess because I can only see two lines of text at a time on my mobile device, I don't think about how it looks after I type it all up. You're exactly right though. I do have a lot to let out and I want to let it out. Especially online where it doesn't matter if someone does judge me. It is just words on a page and truthfully I am strong enough to not let it bother me. I understand that some people online are just d****. I'm one of those people. But I know settings where I can get away with serious trash talking. Game apps with a chat feature makes things easy. But never forums. Especially forums like this where people are looking for help. I do have at least a little humility.

So that has started me on a path of reflection. Looking inside myself to try and figure out the root causes of my small quirks. Things like why I write like I do online, but to see the same exact thing on paper it would look totally different. Maybe some reflection will help me understand why I feel an overpowering urge to be high on something. It has been there as long as I can remember. Yes, I was born addicted to heroin. Do I blame my problems on that? Absolutely not. I feel it may contribute to my addictive tendencies, but it is not to blame for the choices I've made regarding drugs. So, thank you, once again DAC. You have inspired me yet again.

Hope all had a good, sober, or at least spice free Christmas or which ever holiday you observe. Good food enjoyed with the people you love. I will check in again before New Years Eve, then I am gonna be gone for a couple days. Taking my girlfriend WAY up north, darn near to Canada, for New Years Eve. We want to go do some ice fishing and her brother lives up there, in the middle of friggin nowhere, with no mobile service. Totally off the map. Should be peaceful.

Posted by: DAC December 29, 2014, 2:22 PM

Keep analyzing your behaviors, your thoughts, your motives, and you will figure out patterns that are unique to you. There are many personality types, and many different approaches to recovery, we are individuals - not sheep.

Honest writing is something most cant do. Fear of reproach, fear of embarrassment , inability to form logical arguments, etc... Even in an environment where no one knows the writer, people are restrained. Restrained types respond to treatment very differently than the fully expressive. Restrained types take comfort in the group and dont mind being told what to do at every turn. I have many restrained types in my life who believe they know how to solve my problems....but they dont even know how to help themselves , let alone me.

This could be seen as negative, but It's also true. Truth is something often needing to be is constantly evolving as new information comes to light. Figuring out life takes more than a lifetime to do for most of us. So many give up trying, and allow others to do it for them. But the answers to an individuals life lie within...they cant be defined by others. Especially when the logic they use fails the simplest of tests.

Speaking about drugs is complicated. Often the people most outraged by an illegal drug are the ones most hopelessly addicted to the legal ones. This is not a defense of use...just a response from someone who has been judged. False and harsh judgements destroy trust, faith, and truth. If figuring yourself out is what you need to do....dont feel despaired when you experience these judgements. Trying to get others to understand can be frustrating and lead to further use. Drugs are used most in isolation, and to the most individualistic of us will often seek them out the most when we feel disconnected. This is true for both legal AND illegal substances. The failure to connect with others is one of the leading causes of ALL drug use in my opinion.

This is what I call stream of consciousness association of a wide range of ideas that combine a number of psychological insights that come from my personal experience. If I typed this to people I know? They would disagree, wouldnt know why, but they would disagree very strongly all the same. If I were speaking directly of an experience I had that led to this....they would talk about themselves, and start defending why they did or said or whatever it was they assume I was referring to THEM. When the truth was it had nothing at to do with them at all....this gets frustrating at times. Frustrate people in agreement, even when they can only agree they are confused? They will disown you.

Good...because I never wanted to be owned. I just wanted the freedom to figure a few things out for myself. Now that I have? Not sure what's next....that's why I'm writing

Posted by: Peedey December 29, 2014, 11:27 PM
Same to you, DAC. Keep writing. I've read every single post on this thread, multiple times. I've seen people come and go. I've seen people relapse. I've seen people succeed. I've seen people evolve. You are a success story, thus far, and I have watched you evolve throughout your posts. I encourage you, if you haven't ever or even recently, and if you have the time, start at Josh's original post and read forward. You gave me the strength to reach out here, which led to me reaching out to certain people in my daily life. Some are just online friends, some are family, others just acquaintances. As I have said numerous times, you have been an inspiration to me. And I appreciate that. I didn't know that I could be inspired by another persons struggles. Especially struggles that I know all too well. No, my experience was not a carbon copy of yours, or anyone else's. And I am thankful for that. Some here seem to have had a worse time than I did, not that I am downplaying my own physical and mental withdrawal symptoms.

The biggest thing that has been helping me with the mental side of this is knowing that if I have a really good day, I can come here and tell people about it. On the flip side, I know that if I feel like I am in trouble and feel weak I can come here and talk about it and then read my post and analyze what is going on in my head at that moment. I never approached drug use and addiction with a logical mind. I always just assumed that we choose to use drugs and then become addicted over time. It isn't even the drug we get addicted to. It's the feeling we get when using the drug. DAC I think you have even said this, if not I'm sure you've realized it by now. When we are using, we know we are messed up. We know it. But we keep using because we want to feel good. Something in our lives prevents us from getting that natural "high" or good feeling. Usually ourselves. Drugs get us there whether we want to be there or not. We do it to try and connect, like you just said. Our brains are screaming, begging, to connect with something or someone, so we go to the fail-safe. Drugs. Legal or illegal. Whatever gets the dopamine flowing.

I have been trying to re-establish some of my old drug free habits. I used to go fishing all the time. Constantly. I still love going, but haven't been in to it for years because I was always so messed up on drugs. No fun fishing when you're high on heroin or methadone and could fall out and drown at any moment. I'm not that adventurous, not anymore anyways. In my teens, maybe. Snort half a ball of smack then go sit on a river bank all night, in the dark, cat fishing. Yeah. I'll pass. Older me is so much less daring than younger me was. I've been playing a lot of the new Dragon Age video game too. I am an extremely detail oriented person, borderline OCD with organizing certain things. This game lets you be extremely technical with your play style, so I've been eating that up. Keeps my mind off a lot of things, actually. I went almost four hours yesterday without a cigarette and didn't even realize it. So distraction helps, even almost three weeks in.

Have a safe and great New Year's Eve everyone. DAC, I'm sure you'll be out making people laugh. You are doing good work with that. Laughter is a gift. Truly. Don't ever give up on comedy.

Posted by: DAC December 31, 2014, 9:03 PM

I meant to get online yesterday and didnt...I never have put Facebook on my phone, dont carry my phone with me, and since I had a 10 yo's birthday at the house with about 25 people I just kind of shut down everything for a day or so. I find this REALLY helpful to do from time to time.

Then I pick up my phone after not looking at it for a day, and return the call or text that went unanswered. I do this all the time so hopefully now people get it...I am not on call. I didnt get this way overnight. I used to get as many as 100 texts and calls a day a few years back when my business was bigger and I had more employees. I used to stress at people having to wait even 15 minutes without a return text or call...Now I could care less what they think - and It's VERY liberating.

I've spent the holidays watching teens,family, and older millenials feverishly checking their phones....constantly updating facebook, texting people mindless BS who arent in the room...perhaps texting mindless BS to people who ARE in the room...usually this is gossip.

But Really? You get together for the holidays to see people you dont get to interact with all that much....and you spend your time looking at them look at their phones...WTF? These are the same people who also make my occasional drug use all about them....see a connection?

Dont live life for the acceptance of's an unachievable goal. It's a path paved with frustration and anxiety that ultimately leads you off a cliff of despair. Quitting any substance begins with doing it for yourself....your reasons, your goals, your understanding of why. Seek advice and encouragement from those you dont directly associate with. Friends and family care...but in my experience they care FAR more about themselves, and how they look than they do about me. It took a while for me to understand and come to terms with this. Now that I have, nothing stands in the way of my complete recovery.

Rely on friends and relatives and you will need a padded cell with some very hard core depression meds to cope. But that's just my opinion...I could be wrong :)

Posted by: sandy January 1, 2015, 1:58 PM
Been off the spice for a little more than 3 months after being hooked for about 3 yeas. Will I ever get over feeling like I want to go back to it?? Suffer from depression and loneliness every day. Miss my spice - smoking partner. He quit too. Never see him or talk to him anymore. We got a bad batch and it got us sick. Then went through the withdrawal sickness. Think I would have learned a lesson. Feel like I was happier when I was on the spice. I

Posted by: Papa Bear January 1, 2015, 2:29 PM

Are you attending NA meetings?

I never had a problem putting the drug/alcohol down, I just had a problem LEAVING them down.

I had a problem leaving them down and beginning to enjoy life clean/sober with faith, acceptance and gratitude.

If you want to begin living clean/sober with faith, acceptance and gratitude then join NA/AA as millions of others have.

All the best.

Bob R

Posted by: DAC January 2, 2015, 4:30 PM

It does get better with time. Give your mind a chance to heal. I know the frustration of thinking you should be better at 3 months , and still feeling down, but dont worry it will get better eventually. Whatever you do dont go back to smoking...that will just make things worse

Posted by: sandy January 3, 2015, 12:09 PM
I don't THINK I will go back to smoking as I don't anticipate having the opportunity to do it. But I know if my smoking "buddy" were ever to get back into it and contact me it would be impossible to resist. So on the one hand I'm glad we don't see each other and on the other hand I miss him a lot. I wish I could sleep at night again and want to be happy again. I'm trying every day to forget the spice life. Why does it still appeal to me so much? Hate being so depressed and alone all the time.

Posted by: DAC January 3, 2015, 2:21 PM

I used to get really down a couple months out, this is when I would relapse and go back to smoking. I repeated this pattern several times before realizing that I wasnt ever going to get better until I stopped completely. It became illegal and I went for about 6 months before I came in contact with someone who could get it for me. At the six month mark I didnt want it...but around 2 or 3 months I probably would have tried to get some.

I am now a year and a half away from Spice. I have absolutely NO desire to ever try that again. I dont even smoke pot anymore...something I did to help get through the anxiety depression periods when I quit smoking the synthetic. My sleep returned to normal somewhere around the 4-6 month time frame as well. I had also smoked spice for almost 3 years prior to quitting it for good. So keep at it , you should start feeling better soon.

Depression has a lot to do with regret and hopelessness...Your mind will debate the question of whether or not you should smoke again and this can make you feel both these things. The chemical/physical pull will fade eventually, it is different for everyone - but you will feel better the longer you stay away from smoking.

Read about addiction, write about what you feel, and get out and talk to people whenever possible. Connect with others however you can...spice was an isolating experience for me. I was comfortable with the isolation , but long term this is not a good thing.

Posted by: sandy January 10, 2015, 5:32 PM
Hi. Thanks for the feedback. Since quitting in October I can see its true that it's getting better and I'm hoping to reach the point that I know I'm done with spice FOR GOOD. Still not able to fall asleep when I went to and can't sleep through the night. But now I'm at a family get together with a big party happening and I wish I could just chill and have a great time. ..seems like no one else will have a problem. .. will I ever feel normal? ? Spice took something out of my life. Felt like was a good switch - off at the time but the next thing I knew it felt like I was going to die.

Posted by: Peedey January 12, 2015, 11:43 AM

I have read your posts several times. I haven't really felt like posting in the last few days, but I have been thinking. I think you might have to redefine "normal" for your brain. You smoked spice for so long that your old version of normal will never return. Not because of any damage you did. That can be repaired, with time. I just feel that after smoking spice for so long our brains forget what normal was. We get so consumed with smoking it and the process of getting it, we no longer lead normal lives. Even if we have an over abundance of it, life becomes all about finding opportunities to smoke it. I did things so far from my normal, while using, that thinking about it now makes me sick to my stomach. While I was at work, in a fast food restaurant, I would run to the bathroom every ten to fifteen minutes so I could smoke a bowl. So I can relate with the "return to normal" thing.

When I stopped using a month ago I didn't know what to do with myself. Writing here and rereading the posts others have made here helped fill time. It also helped me realize that I enjoy writing online. I never knew this before smoking spice. I have so much stuff built up in my brain that I need an outlet. Someplace where if someone judges me based on what I say it isn't going to affect my daily life or my social status or create family problems. I have had to form new habits and rediscover old habits. I have purchased more books in the month since quitting than I have in the five years prior. I love to read but had forgotten how good an actual book feels in my hands. I did go back to smoking pot, which helps me and seems to help others who have stopped using spice, for others it can trigger a relapse. I don't suggest or recommend smoking pot to any recovering spice user, but I can provide insight as to how it has helped me cope and how it has helped others that I personally know.

Rediscovering one's self can be a tough and often frightening thing. You will face truths about yourself that nobody else can force you to see because nobody knows you like you do. Accepting who you are and what you are can be a huge step in recovery. I have accepted that I will always be an addict to many substances, but I can choose not to be a user of those substances. Addiction is a life long struggle, but you can make it easier on yourself by making good choices and keeping a good support system. NA/AA works for some, not for others. Online sources like this and others can be beneficial to some. Family is also a good support system, for some. A lot of people are afraid to turn to family with this kind of thing for fear of judgement. Only you can decide and know which support system is best for you, but know that you will need support.

You are not alone Sandy. Know that.

Posted by: DAC January 12, 2015, 3:55 PM

Good to hear from you again. I think you make some great observations when talking about how your thinking on, and after spice use is not 'normal'. I can relate to the constant smoking, hitting a one hitter or a pipe every 15 minutes all day long ,for days, weeks, and months on end. I have thankfully moved past this a long time ago, but I know all too much what this mindset is like.

You also mentioned smoking pot as a way of decompressing, I also understand that one. This isnt the same as recommending others follow this path, because I dont, everyone is different. The solution for my Spice smoking by a 'professional' was to take 4 different medications....three of them addictive narcotics. My thinking was hyper (manic), had lots of anxiety, couldnt sleep, and was generally just stirred up emotionally after experiencing some major life events during my long spice binge.

But i didnt think taking addictive narcotics, drugs that were going to have to be 'stepped down' because of withdrawals was a good idea, especially when some of these medicines have been known to further alter brain chemistry. I stuck to what I knew...that was pot. It eased the anxiety, helped me sleep, and stopped my mind from racing so much. I didnt care if this was acceptable to them - it was my choice. I would quit for almost two months, then give myself a few weeks to binge. What it really did was get me through the worst of the spice withdrawals, and get me to a place where going completely cold turkey and sober was an option.

Like you I felt guilt, I didnt want to be up front about my pot use to others who knew me. If felt like I had a secret again, and secrets get drug users into trouble. So I would write whatever happened online, in blogs like this one, and to people who didnt know me. I found a few who could relate, or were going through similar problems, people who listened, and offered encouragement and advice. In short, I found help in anonymity that I could not find from those who knew me. As I look back with the perspective of time, I just need to try and remove some of the distance between me and family that this experience created. As long as I re-assure them it was entirely my fault, justify their turning their backs on me, reach out to them first and continually ( they dont reciprocate - after all everyone knows they were right), and basically cater to their ego absorbed needs they way you have to do to have relationships with the hopelessly co-dependant. Sound bitter? It's really just sarcasm at this point, but I do get bitter biting my tongue to preserve relationships for the benefit of my kids that I would let go if not for them.

Sorry , i needed to vent a little. But Peedey you also mentioned discovering a need to write, and how writing online helped you express things that maybe your friends and family couldnt relate to. This is because you are attempting to figure yourself out, and simple condemnations dont suffice. To express honestly and fully, you almost HAVE to go online in order to get meaningful dialogue. People are very timid at expressing their emotions and feelings honestly. Fear of embarrassment, of disapproval, of not being understood hamper most creative expressions. The more acceptance is needed, the more the group appeals to them, but we all arent sheep...there are also shepherds among us. The shepherds are the ones trying to find their own way - sheep are content to follow others.

I gotta watch the rhetoric. It can make me sound angry or mean....and I am not. I am just looking for the best analogies, this is the way I make sense of things the best. This also comes from a lot of reading and writing I have done myself the past couple years. If I told the complete truth, I am numb and very unfeeling in terms of relationships outside of my wife and kids. I no longer emotionally invest in them , cant get honest or helpful feedback from them, so I let them think whatever they want...the numbness makes that possible. I can be numb now while sober, when these events were fresh and hurtful - I needed a drug to get numb.

Anyways, good to hear from you, write when you can. I wish you all the best

Posted by: Peedey January 14, 2015, 11:07 PM

Something you said in that last post struck me. I am just the opposite. I am by no means timid or shy about sharing my feelings or thoughts on something with people that I know. But I feel the same way about almost having to write my thoughts online. For me the problem is I am quick to give an honest and at times brutal opinion on the given subject of the moment. It's almost like I can't lie to people when they ask my advice or opinion, even when I know I am about to crush someone with honesty. So I have learned to rein that side of me in a little bit when it comes to associates and people I don't care for like I do my family and loved ones. That sounds cruel, I realize that. And not just to them, honesty needs to be more commonplace in today's society, but it is also cruel to myself. It forces me to keep things in that are screaming to get out. But because I do care about people's feelings I hold back at times. I suppose it could root to being afraid of people not accepting me for who I really am.

As to my drug use, I've always been fairly open about it. There are some people that will NEVER know the extent or longevity of my drug habits, like my grandparents and one set of aunt and uncle and cousins. Everyone who knows me knows that I at the very least occasionally smoke pot. They accept that as part of who I am. They know that in a way it helps me stay level when my bipolar disorder flares up and I get really manic or super depressed. I don't like it being a crutch, but I do know that it helps me a great deal. Not as a coping mechanism. I can deal without pot. It is a choice that I make and people who know me know that pot is one thing that will never take control of my life like heroin or crack or spice did. I am an extremely vocal advocate of medical marijuana. I know some of the first licensed medical care providers in the state of Michigan and helped them achieve what they now have. Come to think of it, the two guys I'm talking about offered me a "rehab" of sorts about two months before I quit on my own, but I wasn't ready yet and refused. Life lessons.

Good to be posting again. I never stop reading. Never. I'm always around. As I've said, I read here for over a year before my first post. I've seen people come and go and relapse and succeed. I'll be around til this thread is no longer active because spice is illegal all over the world and everyone stops and gets back to being spice free and normal, or as I like to call it "bland", and spice is just a bad memory that we all share.

Posted by: DAC January 15, 2015, 5:32 PM

When I first started writing here a few years ago, I was more on the shy side as far as talking openly with family and friends. I had some people really turn on me for being up front and honest so I stopped trying to talk to them as openly.

I also noticed that when I was smoking spice I was more free and open, when I stopped smoking I was more angry and aggressive. I stopped relying on people around me to try and understand....I took to blogs, places like this, and eventually went onstage to air out some feelings.

Getting to voice an opinion on things that others try and shut down is very liberating. When the topic is drugs, drug use, or even pot legalization it is hard to get a normal conversation from someone opposed to these things. Those close to you will not recognize a need to work something out if the topic is controversial....I found this to make things worse.

My family still struggles to deal with even a simple drug like pot. Even if it is just talking about it. I do a radio show where that is all I talk about, it helps me to get things out, and the audience is very responsive. I guess what I am saying is keep looking for an outlet to talk about things that you need to figure out for yourself. In my case, I couldnt rely on family - maybe you can. Just warning you, now I will find myself going off on people who simply cant take the same judgement they used against me. So I dont.

I believe when you love someone, you accept them for who they are. If your family does this to you I think that is great. You have a support structure that was all but absent for me. My family still believes that ignoring and shunning is how to react to a loved ones problem. That I became comfortable with this now makes them more upset than before when I was smoking.

Posted by: ThaDood January 17, 2015, 6:56 AM
Morning, all. I can't tell y'all how grateful I am to have found this forum.

My story is not a lot different than the others I've read here: Started smoking synthetic about six years ago, and my life has spiraled out of control ever since. I have lost, in order, a home, 24+ years of sobriety, and a family. I've been off the synthetic now about six days. The withdrawals are abating, although I still smell like the afterbirth of a Mongolian b****** rat. My blood pressure and pulse rate are slowly coming down, and it looks like I might pull out of this without too much permanent damage. Here's the insane part: I had a heart attack in December, 2012 directly related to "smoking" (of all forms), gave up cigarettes but not synthetic. How crazy is that.

Here's some perspective that I haven't seen here. My daughter is a heroin addict, clean and sober at the moment. She tells me that withdrawal from synthetic is WORSE than withdrawal from heroin. I believe it. I'm clean now six days; the worst is over; and I can see light at the end of the tunnel. (Hope it's not the subway!) I'm telling any newcomer that you CAN beat this. Withdrawal won't kill you; it will just make you wish it would. Hang in there. It gets better every day, and you CAN MAKE IT. If you make it past day one, HANG ON TO THAT MEMORY. And know that you don't ever have to feel like that again. Ever.

I look forward to participating in this forum. You gize helped me last night, more than you will ever know. Keep the faith.


Posted by: ThaDood January 17, 2015, 7:27 AM
I guess I should add, my wife and daughter are still using synthetic. I asked them to leave the house, since their using was making it easy for me to relapse. That's harsh, but my life and my sanity are more important to me at the moment.

If you don't think this drug is horribly destructive and dangerous, check this out. Yesterday, I told my wife I wanted her to quit, and she told me to file for divorce - after 29 years of marriage. That's the mindset of a synthetic user.


Posted by: Papa Bear January 17, 2015, 10:02 AM

Is this your first time trying to quit? How did you make out before trying it on your own?

Why do you think that this time it will be different... that you can do it?

The real question that you have to ask yourself and answer is:
Am I a casual/recreational user or an addict?

If you are a casual recreational user then put the $#!t down and walk away.
Your problem is solved.

If you are an addict and put the $#!t down and walk away...
your problem(s) are just beginning.

If you are an alcoholic/addict as I am you will find recovery in NA/AA.

You will find recovery in admitting your powerlessness rather than fighting a losing battle.

The true answer to the question above will become self-evident soon.

Good luck.

Bob R

Posted by: ThaDood January 17, 2015, 10:33 AM
I was sober in AA for 24 years, so I'm quite familiar with 12 Step recovery. Spiritual kindergarten, I believe we call it. But when you drop out of college, you don't go back to kindergarten. I'm locked in with the Lord, attending a very good church, and my spiritual condition is recovering slowly.

I know that God is the only thing that will keep me clean and sober, and I know where to find Him. :)



Posted by: Papa Bear January 17, 2015, 10:58 AM
Man, you gave up just before the miracle happens.
I'm 25 yrs sober and things are just getting good

Spiritual Kindergarten.. that's funny. But wrong.

The trick is church AND AA.... not the church OR AA.

I have sat at AA meetings with a priest who worked at The Vatican.

A good video for me when I'm ready to quit/change

Good luck, Tom


Posted by: sandy January 17, 2015, 11:30 AM
Am I an addict or a recreational user? I don't know. I never had problems with drugs or alcohol before and I am close to 60 years old. Spice had me hooked for 3 years. During the 3rd year often felt that I should try to quit smoking but it wasn't until I got really sick from a "bad" batch that prompted me to give it up. I felt like I was going to die and would have gone to the emergency room but could barely crawl out of the house. Didn't think of calling 911 at the time but was trying to get to the neighbor to ask them to help me. Glad now that I dragged myself back to bed. Then I went through the withdrawal. Since then I have not smoked BUT I think about it every day 4 months later and still feel like I was happier when I was on the spice. I guess I must be an addict to want something that bad that is so bad for me. I kind of feel lucky that I gave it up... it was embarrassing to me to be hooked on it. Why do I miss it? I'm missing the high. Pot just makes me feel more depressed than I already am and doesn't compare to spice so I don't do pot either.

Posted by: Papa Bear January 17, 2015, 11:58 AM

The substance is not the problem.
Our alcoholism/addiction is the problem and it is a mulch-faceted disease... a spiritual disease.

I came to recovery a hopeless, helpless, suicidal drunk/addict and I needed to change.
The first change I made through detox, recovery home and AA/NA was NOT USING.
Then I was left with that horrible "hole in my soul" that cried for relief.

I found and continue to find that relief in regular AA/NA meetings and working The 12 Steps.

I began to improve physically, mentally. emotionally and spiritually. I became ME-HERE-NOW.

i know how you feel, all addicts/alcoholics feel that way. I had to get to the meetings to find that out.

All the best.

Bob R (I'll be 71 next birthday)

Posted by: ThaDood January 18, 2015, 8:29 AM
There is an article in the Houston Chronicle this morning about an "epidemic" of emergency room cases associated with this drug. One thing I found interesting is the medical professionals saying that the effects of the synthesis are NOTHING like pot; it's more like crack cocaine. My own personal experience bears that out.

This ain't weed, y'all. The inventor of the synthesis, John W Hawthorne (the "JWH" in JWH-017, -018, etc.) says the only people who would use it recreationally are "idiots".

I'm done being an idiot.

Posted by: ThaDood January 18, 2015, 5:22 PM
Was talking to my pastor this morning about this stuff. He visits the county jail a couple of times a week, and says synthetic is the biggest drug problem that inmates are sharing right now. Every thing I told him, he says he's heard in the jail. Told me, "If you were talking to the inmates right now, almost ALL of them would be nodding their heads."

He also says that they need to hear that recovery is possible. Guess I'm going back to the jail ministry.

BTW: In case y'all haven't noticed, I've found something to do with my hands. :)


Posted by: ThaDood January 19, 2015, 8:00 AM
Haven't seen anybody else post lately. All y'all get well over the weekend?

Posted by: sandy January 19, 2015, 3:53 PM
Hi there. I appreciate your posts! Made it through a lonesome weekend. No more spice for me going on about 4 months. Still feeling like something is missing... something big and important. Have thought a lot about going to a NA/AA meeting. Not sure about it because I don't pray.

Anybody out there thinking of trying spice -- DON'T! Trying to quit can be hard but it can be done.

Posted by: ThaDood January 19, 2015, 8:03 PM

Posting this weekend probably helped me more than it did you, but I'm glad you made it through.

I didn't pray either, until I got to AA. And then didn't pray much then, at first. But I learned that this stuff doesn't care about what I think - if you're an addict, you will use again if you don't do something different.

And nobody in AA/NA is going to judge you. Most of us got there exactly like you. Give it a try. You have nothing to lose.


(Wait for the cliches. They're inevitable.)