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Message Board > Families / Partners of Addicts > Mntmom

Posted by: Sallyanna April 21, 2019, 7:38 PM
Mntmom thinking of you I hope you are okay

Posted by: mtnmom April 23, 2019, 8:31 AM
Hi Sallyanna, we have had the worst 2 weeks so far. But we are ok (I was on vacation with no internet!) About 3 weeks ago, my son's ex gf contacted me, she was scared & didn't know where to turn & we talked for a long time. Come to find out, GF moved out of her own house because of my sons aggressive & unpredictable behaviors & now my son wouldn't leave. GF had to go to court to get a restraining order & move out order. Before the court hearing, my son was BLOWING UP EVERYONE'S PHONES with no stop texts, calls & voicemails. When one of us wouldn't give him money, he'd screaming & cursing at us. He changed phone number 4 times when we blocked him.

FINALLY, GF was granted the order & family members moved his stuff into storage & son BLEW HIS TOP!!! Cussed out every family member & swore he'd never forgive us (for doing what the court ordered). but within minutes of THAT tirade, a Recovery Center person contacted us & said our son asked her to reach out. I told her everything he was doing & that we are done, just because he is our son doesn't mean he gets to abuse us & this is not how a loved one is treated & this is definitely not how someone should treat their 60+ y/o parents. But, of course, that treatment contact was just another ploy to try to get us to think he's trying to get help. My son fakes the alligator tears & hysterics to manipulate us & other family members to "help" him. And apparently he doesn't realize that all of us, including a cousin's family that he also scammed into helping, are all communicating so he can't lie. He's already violated the restraining order & was arrested for a few hours & then released, he's STILL texting ex wanting to meet her at her house without the police. For some demented reason, he threw a dead fish in my youngest son's front yard.

Long story longer: RIGHT NOW he's not speaking to us, but we are seriously done. Next time he contacts us we will tell him to take the consequences of the decisions HE has made... I always worry that my husband will be strong enough to stick with that bottom line, my son knows exactly what to say to hurt my husband

Posted by: BugginMe April 23, 2019, 9:00 AM
So sorry Mtnmom. Sounds to me like he is still using Meth. Been through this same type thing with my son stalking his girlfriends and generally out of control. I don’t know how they act on steroids. They make it impossible to help them or be around them at all. The stories they tell in order to get money are pretty unbelievable. Doesn’t seem like one person can have so many bad things happen to them in such a short time. They impload. Kaboom ... pieces in all directions and like Humpty Dumpty we can’t put them back together. The threats, hostility and abuse are hard to take. What they say and do is often very hurtful. They know their families too well. I am scared (actual fear) my son will show up at our door unannounced at any time wanting us to deal with his newest crisis or wanting to live with us. We moved and cut him off totally almost 2 years ago except for the occasional email. I wish he was here for holidays, birthdays and family gatherings especially. I get sad sometimes. Feel guilty all the time. Miss him but had to leave the drama behind. I think we are entitled to a little peace later in life. Life is too short. Opting out isn’t easy to do.

Posted by: mtnmom April 23, 2019, 2:47 PM
Absolutely!! Today he started texting, calling & leaving voice mails - we will not respond. he's only checking to see if he can create a crack in our armor, once we show weakness & he will attack. He's done this to us many times in the past few months. But whenever someone offers help, rehab contacts, food, anything but money, he explodes.

Posted by: Parenting2 April 23, 2019, 5:53 PM
I am so sorry you are going through this. We went through this about two years ago. It was absolute horror. His drug, at the time, was Spice. And, some adderall, I guess. I believe the spice is what made him crazy. I remember finding an empty packet that had a demon on it in his closet.

You should NOT have to experience this, and neither should his girlfriend. I am SO sorry you and the rest of us out there have to know what this is like.

When they are this bad, your protection comes first. Do whatever you can to get safe and remove yourself. Believe me, I know the despair. I am remembering it just reading your words. Keep posting. You need a lot of support!!!

Posted by: mtnmom April 23, 2019, 7:25 PM
Both hubby & I received texts, voicemails & calls this morning asking us to please call him. We didn't, then a sad text about how HE has lost everything but never even a slight apology or any remorse or acceptance that every single thing that has happened to him was a result of choices he made. So we got another sad text about "now that I'm at my lowest, everyone deserts ME??" He's actually appalled that WE are tired of his lies & tirades & abuse. Dad answered & said we have nothing to say, if he ever wants to mend our relationship, he needs rehab & sober living. Until then, we have nothing to say... well, that just kept him coming back with how shocked he is about how we are treating him, etc. Finally hubby blocked his number. I haven't yet, but I will if he starts harassing me.

Posted by: Sallyanna April 23, 2019, 8:28 PM
Hi Mntmom sorry too you have been going through so much from your son. You are wise not to let him abuse you anymore and I understand why you are done. They are so relentless. If they put a fraction of the energy they use to be this way into treatment and sobriety they'd be on a positive path.

Posted by: BugginMe April 23, 2019, 10:05 PM
Not right but they see a text response as an opening to convince you they need help. It opens the conversation. It is sad when they loose everything but how can we fix it. We can feed them money until we have none but some things are not fixable with money.

I had forgotten about the bad affects of Spice. It is terrible stuff and can be bought cheap almost anywhere. They think it is ok because they can still pass a drug test. Makes them crazy.

Posted by: NyToFlorida April 24, 2019, 10:42 AM
He is pressing the buttons to see which ones still work.

every interaction we give them keeps it going another day. transportation keeps them going longer. they drive others around and have transportation to do favors for others. we kicked out our son at 1st of March. Mid April he finally got to hospital. If he still had car he would have been going to work and still on his addiction path.

he wrecked the car at end of March. 'Normal' would think that a person living on their own would value the car knowing it was their only way to get to work and paycheck. we will never know what happened. he hit a pole on his lunch hour. the road he was on is very windey. maybe going to fast and looking at phone. (normal would be - don't look at phone while driving) the car was half way to junk yard. was only a temp vehicle. had steering problems. 'normal' would have been to save $$ and have car repaired over the six months he was driving it. and dad putting tires on it and a few other repairs. Nope - repairing car, putting in his name, paying insurance, was not a priority for him. (but cost dad about $3000 for car and repairs)

sorry for the Rant! … my point is - even when down to nothing, my son did not make better choices and it still took nearly 2 months to get him to hospital with dad's help to drive him there.

vehicle and phone are their two main priorities. without that they do not survive long.
(how do you stop an addict - take away the phone and car)

this is where we should have stopped enabling 6-8 years ago. so he would have learned on his own. our fault - giving our kids more than we had at that age. (just my personal experience)

Posted by: mtnmom April 24, 2019, 2:34 PM
I'm sad & sorry that we've all been done this road & many of us are still on it. I feel like it never goes away.... Thanks for the thoughts & the ability to vent here with other parents who TRULY understand.

His dad blocked his number last night so this a.m. he started texting, calling & leaving voicemails on my phone. I did not respond. The voicemails were angry & he was accusing ME of stopping his progress towards rehab, even though when several people have given him names & numbers of no-cost places, he said he doesn't need rehab. Swears he is sober & accuses us of not believing him (why should we? everything he says is a lie!) 13 calls/texts/vm's in 10 minutes. I finally answered with "YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE NAMES & NUMBERS OF SEVERAL NO-COST/LOW COST REHABS & SOBER LIVING PLACES. YOU CHOSE TO NOT ACCEPT THEM. WE ARE NOT PAYING FOR YOUR REHAB. SO YOU CAN STOP WITH THE PHONE CALLS & MESSAGES BECAUSE THERE IS NO FINANCIAL RELIEF ON THIS END". He replies (still arguing) "try to find one yourself, oh wait - you're too busy, that's right cuz everything is free, right? Whatever! I've tried but go ahead, continue to be what you are.... No help, clean hands, easy route...

I didn't respond & within minutes I get a call from Balboa Horizons - a PRIVATE rehab!!! Guess who wanted to see if I wanted to help my son. I told them in no uncertain terms I will not spend another penny on him with his lies, manipulation & abuse. The way he has talked to his family & things he has done are horrific.... I think this guy just wanted to get off the phone when I was done!! ;)

Posted by: NyToFlorida April 24, 2019, 4:39 PM
OMG it is awful for you. so sorry. your son really is relentless. it is amazing how they are sometimes able to twist the situation so it is back in your lap - getting phone calls from rehabs....

PS.. I my previous post I may have made generalizations that do not fit everyone. Apologies where needed.

Posted by: mtnmom April 24, 2019, 6:42 PM
I don't think any of us here need to apologize for anything we say HERE - this is a safe zone, in my opinion. Some things apply to all of us, some things apply to a few of us. We are all just trying to get thru this.

My son can't even pretend to be nice now - he just starts out with both barrels blazing & then gets mad when we say enough.

Posted by: #momfail April 24, 2019, 8:12 PM
Hello Mtnmom,

I'm glad you're ok and so sorry to hear your son is being so cruel and manipulative. So heartbreaking when our own flesh and blood can be this way.

Stay strong. I know it's hard.

Posted by: BugginMe April 24, 2019, 8:49 PM
I don’t think it is easy to get into free rehabs. There are limited beds and people wait for them to open up. It isn’t an ideal system. I don’t know if there are any shortcuts. Maybe from hospital detox directly to rehab? If no insurance or person to pay, I think they have to be approved for Medicaid first. When an addict decides they want to go to rehab they really need to go right away. That may be why your son is so desperate. They do use the possibility of rehab to manipulate people though. They also use guilt ... like he could get a job if ... What he is telling you might be true but most likely it is some kind of story. They don’t akways know the truth themselves. Can’t keep paying for stuff forever even if they need the help. They think our funds and good will are endless. My son is so disappointed because he believes unconditional love means we will allow ourselves to be walked on our whole lives. I read what others say and am always surprised at how alike our addicts are. They say and do almost identical things. It’s amazing and sad at the same time.

NY - I have taken my son to the hospital and allowed them to release him to me too many times. I started refusing and quit taking him myself because his actions were so unpredictable it became dangerous to be alone in a car with him.

Posted by: Parenting2 April 24, 2019, 10:06 PM
Bugginme, I have thought the same. Whenever someone posts direct quotes, I am like, "OMG, that is my son talking (at least when he is on drugs)". Maybe the desperation causes them to go crazy with manipulation.

I did stop giving my son money. It was HARD and he made me miserable for awhile. I think it partly worked because he found a job and he is not using Spice or Adderal (for quite awhile now). He has a beater car and is paying his own insurance. I do pay for this counselor that seems to be really helping him. She is very tough and does not put up with any crap. I think it helps him to have this outside person. On top of that, he agreed to go at a time when he had hit a bottom of sorts.

He still is relentless when he wants something (he has been like this since he was born, to be honest). He will tell me that because he doesn't have phone service/I won't pay for his phone service.....(insert a multitude of horror situations). He will just bombard me with intense conversation about how he may be hurt or need me and have no way of reaching me. When this won't work, he moves to how selfish I am that I won't help my own child. Or, if I don't pay for his gas, his car will break down and lose his job.

The thing is that these things used to work on me. When I was actively running amok in the insanity, he COULD manipulate me.

Nothing is perfect and this situation is not ideal, believe me. But, things DID change for the better, when I looked him in the eye, really meant it, and told him, "I owe you nothing. I work hard for my money." I had to get tough and not let him see any weakness. This is a dangerous moment too, when they know you are serious and they are still using.

Of course, you know, I am not that tough and I sometimes cry myself to sleep. But, overall, I have drawn that line in the sand. If you show them emotion, they just use it against you. I try to be very objective, non-confrontational, and say as little as possible. But, make sure he knows he is a grown-up and on his own.

The tough part is that if he started using spice again, we would be in a hot mess, because you almost always have to call the police and it creates this crazy situation (like you & his girlfriend are unfortunately experiencing!) No lie, it blew my mind when he first came home acting out on Spice (I am sure it is similar to meth). I was kind of in stupor because ..!! It seems like it is not reality!! His behavior left everyone totally speechless (mouths open). I literally felt like running into traffic out of desperation. I would be in a store and not want to leave because I felt safe around all the people. Luckily, we have not had that for well over a year. I feel horrible that others are still going through this.

What is the solution for this? They almost need involuntary, emergency crises centers for these kids so out of it on drugs. Like jail but with a rehab focus. More needs to be done to get them to a safe, locked area and more support for parents/family.

Anyway, I DO so feel for people still in this situation. Beyond insanity. And, it is dangerous-don't minimize the danger when they are out of their minds on drugs. You have to take care of yourself. When we were going though this, I started going to the local abuse prevention shelter for classes and counseling. And, I had a plan and carried mace (crazy, isn't it?).

My son is doing better and he has no memory of his behavior on spice. The whole thing is just SAD. He still struggles so with his anxiety and constant thinking. I know he turned to drugs to stop all that and then drugs gets in the drivers seat.

I am just staying in the moment and trying to stay detached and let him work out his issues and his life. A year ago I would be hopeful but I realize things can go up and down and he may have more stuff he will go through. I cannot believe he is the same person.

It is really sad and scary. I feel for those of you dealing with these breaks with reality/drug frenzies. : ( I am having flashbacks of all our crazy times. Stay safe, reach out for support, and do your best to find moments to detach, walk, hike, get a hotel room.

Posted by: NyToFlorida April 25, 2019, 7:25 PM
Parenting - thank you for the post. Many excellent points!

I'm proud of your strength - to not give money when your son badgers you with reasons . Extremely difficult when face to face with him. I am not that strong. I think your son is much more relentless than mine, and had been more violent, demanding at times.

I have had those thoughts when out of the house, that I didn't want to go back. Once I was in a large restroom in the Mall. I thought "It is so peaceful here. I wish I could live here" LOL Crazy!
It shows how much addiction rocks our sanity.

Very important point - us family members seeking out counceling. It did help me too. I didn't think to go to abuse prevention counceling. it does make sense. Councelling did help me navigate the addiction map better than the years of dealing with it on my own. I learned about community services that are available and had people I could go to in a crisis.

I'm so glad you got through it. and you can see the progress.

It is so hard to see how it will play out when a family is living in it. trying to make the right decisions to keep everything OK for 'today' but not making progress in the long term. we all have to walk thru it and get to the same conclusions in our own time. Its so strange how we can read, learn, listen to the truth, but so hard to execute 100%... after our latest round, I can see that it only works when we are able to put "No Enabling" in place 100%..

Posted by: mtnmom April 25, 2019, 7:59 PM
Yesterday, I received a call from a rehab counselor asking if the family would be willing to help him get the help he's trying to get (i.e. pay for private rehab), later he (son) told me that I was preventing him from getting help. (I still wouldn't answer his calls)

In the evening he sent me this: "Nope not one but three jobs today count them three jobs. Inspite of this piece of s*** family stepping all over me as I got sober. I got three jobs today and no thanks whatsoever to any of my family for their help . I did it nobody helped me and all on my own. I told you I will remember the way I was treated at my lowest point in life. Well guess what now the avoid train has left the station and it’s my turn to drive it"

No calls after that email. Tonight son's friend (good friend, not druggie friend) called to say son called SAYS he's in jail. Friend doesn't know what to believe because he knows my son is a mess. My hope is they keep him in jail. He says it's on 3 felonies - one being Felony hit & run... but who knows?? I'm going to enjoy the peace & know he's safe.

Posted by: Sallyanna April 25, 2019, 8:30 PM
These are really great posts. In reading them, it's hard to believe the craziness of addiction and how their stories can change on a dime. I can totally relate and I know often I feel like my head is spinning especially right after I've had contact with my daughter. One day she's going to detox (then checks her self out because they didn't "know what the f@ck they were doing") to...I'm going back on Wednesday (three weeks later) because "it was a really nice place". Wednesday comes and she doesn't go and can't really tell me why not. Now I haven't heard from her in 10 days which is very unusual. I've called and "I'm brushing my teeth I'll call you right back". Doesn't call back. Few days later I call her back "I'm throwing up I'll call you back". Doesn't call back. Its a NUTS existence.

I don't know how to have a relationship with her anymore. Its so chaotic and unpredictable. Just thinking about her and any of all the bad situations she has put herself in triggers my anxiety. Yet, at the same time I love her and care about her. Its such a dichotomy.

Posted by: mtnmom April 25, 2019, 10:16 PM
I Know SallyAnna - WE end up feeling crazy. Son is now trying to call us collect from jail. Found out he was arrested on a felony warrant - 3 felony charges for violating a restraining order that was issued about 2 weeks ago. Was arrested once already, released after a few hours. Now he has 3 felonies & a $250,000 bail.... I'm not accepting the collect calls either. This is a 45 y/o man who lives 1,000 miles away - I'm sure he thinks I owe it to him to get him out of there....

Posted by: Sallyanna April 25, 2019, 10:38 PM
Oh my gosh mtnmom. I understand why you won't take his call. We shouldn't reward bad behavior. He put himself in jail not you. He's 45 years old. In 5 years he can join AARP for goodness sakes. I can totally relate to everyone's posts. They keep getting worse. Their rock bottom gets lower and lower.

Posted by: mtnmom April 26, 2019, 9:10 AM
Sallyanna - understanding & reading everyone's posts REALLY helps me & my husband too. Just to hear that others are on this exact same crazy train.

My son is blaming EVERYONE else - us, his brothers, his former employer, his cousins (the ones that took him in, filled up his truck, cared for his dog (still caring for his dog), fed him & spent the weekend trying to find him an open bed. She found one & that's when he told her he doesn't have insurance, found two more faith based & then he decided he didn't need rehab.

My husband did tell him the other day (after yet another profanity laced tirade about how we have never done anything to help him) that everything that he has done over the past 25 years were all choices he has made, no one caused any of this. We always end every conversation with We will always love you but you have to help yourself. I have nothing else to say about this & I will not give you any money for your continued bad choices. Then of course son ends the conversation with F*** YOU!!

Does anyone know how long it will take for him to start withdrawals?

Posted by: Walkedon April 26, 2019, 11:19 AM
I am sure the withdrawal has started. Hopefully he stays in jail for awhile. Unfortunately many county jails don't want to deal with addicts either.Unless they were arrested for a serious crime, he'll be kicked to the street til his hearing.
Generally drug withdrawal isn't dangerous just really sucks.

Posted by: BugginMe April 26, 2019, 1:56 PM
I think if he is using Meth it will take about three days for him to stabilize but longer to be halfway normal again. Depends on the drug and usage. He may have already been withdrawing. Could have been so crazy because he was on the drug or had none of it.

I believe jails do like to get minor offenders out quick because of overcrowding and because they want to be fair to people that don’t have bond money. However there can be circumstances where they keep them in jail longer. They might keep him because he is psychotic, suicidal, maybe because he has multiple felonies, maybe because he has committed more of the same crime while out on bond. His bond is set pretty high so they consider this serious. If he doesn’t show up at his hearing if they let him out, they will issue a warrant and then could keep him in jail until sentencing. They usually don’t trust them after they don’t stick to the terms of their release. I think each jail is different based on size and programs. Sounds like he is in big trouble now and they will probably have him serve some time to teach him a lesson. He could get probation but he has to follow rules and it doesn’t sound like he can do that.

Don’t bond him out. You will be putting yourself in the middle and your liability is too much.

Posted by: Sallyanna April 26, 2019, 7:01 PM
Im not sure about this but I think some states have a 3 felony rule (after convictions of course) where they get serious jail time. Does anyone know about this?

Posted by: mtnmom April 27, 2019, 11:01 AM
Well, I worked in the courts where he is at for 31 years.... more likely than not, the public defender will plea bargain them down to Misdemeanors because they are all harassing/annoying phone calls/texts/social media posts. No physical abuse or damaged property.... but I could be wrong because he does have a prior from 20 years ago when he & another GF broke up & he harassed her relentlessly!! He was charged with stalking & terrorist threats, both of which were plea bargained to Misd. & after he completed probation he had them expunged.

Oh after he got out of jail on the previous charges, they immediately started dating again AND they got married....

Posted by: mtnmom April 27, 2019, 11:03 AM
Oh we will definitely NOT bond him out!!! Bail is $250,000, we'd have to pay $25,000 cash that is non-refundable & we'd have to put the lien on our house, which we would lose WHEN he screws up again.... NOPE!! Worked too hard to get where I am today.

Posted by: mtnmom April 27, 2019, 11:06 AM
I'd like to add one more comment: Breaking away from my son is extremely difficult! I've never been in an abusive relationship with someone I love before so this is new territory. It's hard but I can't let my heart take over. How he is acting to us & our entire family IS ABUSE, psychological abuse. Emotional abuse. But he's my son & I still cannot even comprehend HOW he is able to talk to us this way & try to manipulate us this way....

Posted by: Sallyanna April 27, 2019, 11:21 AM
I totally agree with you mtnmom. It's emotional extortion and he's definitely abusive. You don't have to tolerate any of it. He's more than grown and even if he was 25 hes put himself where he is. No one else. We learn from our mistakes and he's not learning and so maybe a few years in prison will wake him up. His bond is so high I think he's in serious trouble. If it was $25,000 Id think differently but it's $250,000. I personally think going totally no contact with him would be helpful.

Posted by: samegame April 27, 2019, 11:36 AM
The blame game and attempting to shame or guilt. Far too common. And most addicts and alkies must be allowed to hit a bottom. Sometimes helping them is standing in their way and not allowing that to happen. This will go on and on until something big happens like jail.

Posted by: mtnmom April 29, 2019, 8:14 AM
samegame - he's in jail right now! He just wouldn't stop being stupid!! So now he doesn't have a job, no housing & his truck is impounded.... and he's still blaming others for doing this to him!

Posted by: mtnmom May 7, 2019, 10:43 PM
He got released from jail - they only filed a contempt of court charge which was a misdemeanor. He plead guilty & got 3 years probation & 12 days in jail, credit for time served. He called today, was calm & obviously not using. We talked for a couple of hours, he said he knows he needs long term help & is looking into a couple of Church based places where he can live & work. Sounded positive, trying to humble himself & not be angry but seems to realize that is his personality & part of his problem. Never once apologized or seemed sorry at all for the way he treated his family... I cannot read anything into anything. I told him we need to see actions, not words. My husband agreed to get his truck out of impound so we will see what happens when he does that & we will see what the next couple of days hold - either he gets his truck & finds a rehab or he gets truck & ditches out on everything.....

Back to holding pattern...

Posted by: Sallyanna May 7, 2019, 11:47 PM
Mntmom I hope he gets in his truck and chooses to go to rehab. I hope he's motivated to change now too. Thank you for the update and for all your posts : )

Posted by: NyToFlorida May 8, 2019, 8:06 AM
Hi - what your son is saying is exactly what he needs. Hope he is able to follow thru. I am convinced the drugs - whatever mix that they take - 100% contributes to the ‘bad attitude ‘ and lack of insight - self awareness. My son is taking methadone and a few other things at the hospital. He has same crappy attitude today as he did 3 weeks ago when entering hospital. We can blame the hospital but half of it is up to him. Easy for us to say he should have detoxed but if he doesn’t want to they don’t force him. I think the councilors at hospital can find a rehab - sober living to go to, but slim chance they take him on methodone, and he needs to say he wants to go. So far he is not wanting to go.
The councilor has told us to stand our ground. Boundaries. Can’t come to our house.
Good luck. Sorry u have to bail out the truck.
Maybe u can get it out of impound but put it somewhere else temporary until he is in treatment.?

Posted by: mtnmom May 8, 2019, 6:15 PM
He says he is ready to get clean & stop living the life of an addict - hurting everyone. He admits that this past year was his worst year & the past 2 months his was more horrific than he ever has been in the past. He says he needs long term help with sober living. He still wants to talk about the ex-girlfriend, the one that had to get a restraining order & move out order, the order that he has already been arrested on twice.... I don't trust him, but I want to hope but I'm scared he's not. It takes more than a couple of phone calls saying the right things to convince me of anything. I have to see action. He's smart enough to know WHAT to say, I just hope 12 days in jail with the threat of 6 months in jail is still fresh enough to force some action

Posted by: mtnmom May 8, 2019, 9:42 PM
I spoke with a Sober Living house today - he agreed when my son shows up tomorrow, he will call me. He told me he has strict rules for the men & it is ultimately up to my son, which I 100% agree. We committed to pay for a couple of months. I feel a little hopeful, my son has always done very well in rehab, but when left to his own defenses he fails. I'm hoping this structure & men in like situations will help keep him on track.

Thank you everyone for your care & concern!

Posted by: aunt worry May 8, 2019, 10:13 PM
mtnmom-i so hope this sober living place will help your son long term! i’ll send positive thoughts out into the world for him tomorrow. don’t forget to take care of yourself!

Posted by: NyToFlorida May 9, 2019, 8:07 AM
Mtnmom - keep your expectations in check. Hold your boundaries. Don’t get caught up in it - too fast - too soon. It does help when talking to staff at sober living. We had reached out to the recovery place my son was at a few yrs ago. It helped us to know we are doing the right thing and there is help and hope for our loved ones, but they have to want to do the work more than we want it. We can see a clear path. Unfortunately they can not see it. It is not easy for them to be sober and think clearly. Good Luck! Wish you all well. At least you can relax a bit.

At this time we don’t know if our son is at hospital or else where.
I got some medical receipts in the mail that show my son started treatment at local recovery center a week before going to hospital. So there’s hope he is trying to get help but he is struggling at taking the best steps. Such as long term recovery program. I think he thinks he can do it on his own and only needs a job to be able to. If he goes into a treatment program he won’t be able to work for a while... still in limbo...I guess it is complicated for them to make best decisions for themselves.

Posted by: mtnmom May 15, 2019, 10:37 PM
My son DID move into the Sober Living house, he has his own apartment. He's lonely because he's has burned every sober friend he has but he has a few left. He's looking for a job & trying not to think about the ex-girl friend.... I'm not sure how often they drug test but he has to attend meetings twice a day. He can stay as long as he wants or as long as he follows the rules.

Posted by: Sallyanna May 15, 2019, 11:44 PM
Mntmom this is good news. This is a huge step for your son I hope he continues on the right path.

Posted by: mtnmom May 16, 2019, 3:38 PM
We do too!!!! We know it's one day at a time & sometimes one minute at a time, but our fingers & toes are crossed.... :)

Posted by: sad eyes May 16, 2019, 5:44 PM
mtnmom that is really good news, let’s hope it’s a turning point for him, you must feel that you can breath atm, I’ll keep my fingers crossed he continues

Posted by: mtnmom May 22, 2019, 11:55 PM
Well my friends, it was a short-lived good news. He apparently will NOT stay away from her house. He was supposedly supposed to start a job about 10 miles from where she lives & would have drive thru her little town twice a day. But he was arrested today on violation of the restraining order, violation of his probation terms (stay away from her) and a new FELONY charge of stalking.... He had the NERVE to call his brother & ask him to call us & tell us to bail him out ($17,000 would be what we would pay the bondsman for his $150,000 bail) & hire an attorney. No, we are not. When he got out of jail on May 6th, we did pay the impound fees ($1300), Sober Living rent ($700) + 2 other past due bills which was a couple of thousand more. Bank of Mom went bankrupt. Unfortunately, he is only willing to learn the worst way possible.... So I'm very angry at myself for daring to hope

Posted by: Sallyanna May 23, 2019, 1:41 AM
So sorry mtnmom. It amazes me when they get a great opportunity to turn things around and they just blow it and they don't just blow it they really blow it badly. I don't even have words to describe what they do it's just beyond thunderdome. It's another dimension. Its the twilight zone.....Its like a bad movie that never ends and we can't get out of the theater and there's no popcorn, ever.

Posted by: mtnmom May 23, 2019, 8:34 AM
He is obsessed with this young lady that he treated so horribly & now thinks that as long as he is in sober living, she is just going to welcome him back with open arms..... I woke up thinking about how badly he has destroyed his life since he met her. I do not think she is an addict too, I've had several conversations with her & she doesn't seem like a drama queen. But my son will NOT let her go. She broke up with him last Dec. but he wouldn't leave her house. That was also when he started contacting his family after a 6 month absence from all contact. But this contact was cries of suicide with crying & hysterical, irrational behavior. She allowed him to move back in while his father & I offer help if he'd go into extensive rehab & we'd pay for sober living afterwards.

This went on for 4 months, him living in her house but in the guest room, him continuing to use meth & not pay his bills or get a job. Finally something happened at her house & she said his behavior & anger towards her was becoming more & more aggressive & unpredictable. She moved out of her own house & back with her parents & he refused to leave or leave her alone. That's when she went to court & got the restraining order & move out order. He left but continue to harass her & refused to come get his things so some family members went to her house & grabbed his things & placed them in a storage. He F***ing lost his s***!!!!!!!!!! Screaming at every person who tried to help him & saying he'd NEVER forgive us. But of course he still wanted money from us so he continued to call & rant & curse us while asking for money. Most of us blocked his phone numbers. He was arrested for violating the RO within days of the order & went to jail for a few hours. Was arrested again several days later & spent 12 days in jail & was released on probation. Called her a day or two later. It took him about 5 or 6 days to get his butt up to the Sober Living house & it was not great. It was a private home, but at this time he was the only resident. So he was alone & still obsessing with her. He was there less than two weeks & I know of several times that he "coincidentally" crossed paths with her in places he didn't have any business being.... it is just ridiculous. It is hard to think how horribly he has destroyed his life & livelihood in 1 year's time..... I don't regret offering help, THAT kind of help but I am sad that I was fooled again by someone I love so much

Posted by: NyToFlorida May 23, 2019, 9:43 PM
Hi mtnmom. So sorry your son did not last long at the sober living house. And that he could not stay out of trouble. It’s hard to understand why following the rules is so hard for them. Well... my son is another example of how to take a bad situation and make it worse. And when you wonder what could possibly happen next, it still gets worse. I will explain on my own ‘crisis’ post.

Posted by: mtnmom May 23, 2019, 10:40 PM
Yes, NY2FL - don't EVER ask yourself How bad can it get because they will move mountains to show you!! He finally called from the jail - collect of course! We accepted the charges & took the call. It was about a $20 call, then he called back, another $20 call, then he called again & we didn't take it.

He started getting an attitude with his dad because we weren't helping & was trying to get I don't know what some kind of "secret" info we were withholding or something.... His father told him he screwed up really bad & now he's going to deal with his consequences. I talked to the sober living director & he'll take my son back.... so we'll see how long he is in this time, who knows...

Posted by: NyToFlorida May 23, 2019, 10:44 PM
I’m glad I am not taking my sons calls! I don’t think there’s any thing you can do. Given your sons age, I’m sure the courts and jail don’t want to see ‘mommy and daddy’.

Earlier this week before my son’s court date my husband tried calling people. Attorney, judge, etc. everyone who answered phone made husband feel like an a’hole... WHO are you. WHY are you calling? Sorry, dad, one is going to talk to you. Husband called a rehab, he heard, I can’t tell you any thing until your son calls us and answers 55 questions.

We’ve done our best. It isn’t up to us any more.

Good Luck. Try to find something to look forward to or enjoy each day. I know it’s hard.

Posted by: mtnmom May 24, 2019, 8:04 AM
NY2FL - True!! It hurts me that my son is CHOOSING to live his life like this. But I know we were always there to encourage & support him the best we could. Now, I will take a few calls but I'm going to tell him not to call to obsess about the charges against him. I have learned there really isn't any help or support for parents of addicts - that is why I LOVE this group!!! Everyone here is my support group!! Thank you everyone, for encouragement & support and sharing your own stories so I don't feel alone & helpless.... I am helpless because you cannot force or pay anyone to chose wisely & make good decisions

Posted by: BugginMe May 24, 2019, 11:23 AM
This group has helped many of us. I had to quit talking about my son and his problems to friends and family. It was driving them away from me. I think this group helped me more than anything else except maybe a private counselor. I don’t have one of those now so you guys are it.

Our boys are pretty much in the same situation right now. Have nothing, blowing all their chances, keep using drugs / making bad choices, blaming others and in jail for doing something that could have been easily avoided. They all expect us to keep picking up the pieces at whatever cost to us. My situation is a bit different because I have no contact with my son. I have mixed feelings about that. I get really sad often but then I remember how it was before ‘no contact’. I am not sure I could go back to all those phone calls, the cost and the never-ending problems. I was constantly upset. You guys remind me. My son can email me but that hasn’t happened in awhile.

I know things are bad with my son. I yearn to help with my whole being. There aren’t as many decisions for us to make since we turned his life over to him. The ones I want to make are either bad choices or worse choices. Things like stepping in, saving the day, bringing him home, or just visiting. His lifestyle has made many decisions for us. I still get fearful when I think of him showing up at our house one day but I miss him. That is really a screwed up mess! I am not really sure I want to see him.

Anyway I am sorry everybody is going through this. I don’t know if astrangement is the natural progression for this type relationship if they don’t change but remember you are not alone if it comes to that and all the options are exhausted. I think it is ok to say ‘no more’ but making peace with it is another thing.

Posted by: sad eyes May 24, 2019, 5:44 PM
Bugging me, that's a sad story, sorry your situation is like it is, but really in the end when you've exchusted so many avenues , what's left, nothing, only to concentrate on looking after yourself, as a mum it's hard to get your head around having no contact with them, I hate drugs, drugs have always scared me, and I have never dabbled in them, my son still works, never misses, gives me board, but I know he is struggling, he is a functioning addict, self medicates, I wish he would move out, get his own place, he keeps telling me he is looking( not sure how hard he is) and be able to stand on his own two feet a bit, I think at some stage every day I cry a bit to myself and ask why???, and ime never going to get that answer, sorry just feeling sad ATM, take care all you lovely people

Posted by: BugginMe May 24, 2019, 7:18 PM
I don’t want you all to think we weren’t there for our son most of his life. It has only been the last couple of years we have pulled away. It was time to make a change. For us this has gone on about 25 years. A gradual process that eventually ended in no contact. There came a day when it was just all too much. He wouldn’t leave us alone. It had to get really bad before I could let him go. I got sick and our circumstances changed so we had to be realistic about what we could continue to do. My eyes were opened to some things I had been denying for years and to things I should never have been doing in the first place. I kept putting off the inevitable outcome by holding his head above water so he wouldn’t sink but we got very tired and burned out while doing it.

Posted by: sad eyes May 24, 2019, 8:04 PM
Hi bugging me, I hope I dident wrote anything in my post to ypu , to think that you haven't, I truly think that there does come a time, that we can't take anymore, to help them and also to help are selves, 25 years is a long time, I know with my son, i use to go searching for any kind of evidence, that he had been using, always use to find something, I refuse to do it anymore, as I know I don't have to go looking, you know as a mum when there clean, he always has a nothing look on his face, just expressionless , I think as mums we do what we think is best, as are kids are all different, I know I am just letting things muddle along, and it's not good, but just how it is, take care

Posted by: BugginMe May 24, 2019, 9:22 PM
Nothing you said Sad Eyes. I was just thinking someone someplace might think I am a bad mother for any one of many reasons. Old feelings of inadequacy I guess. I am not too happy with myself as a mother and think I could have done better somehow. If I was wiser or stronger or was able to stand on my head and juggle ... lol

Posted by: NyToFlorida May 25, 2019, 11:29 AM
Bugs. Thanks for your post. I feel like the past few years have been similar to your story. Helping, helping, and then gradually realizing he is older and we can’t help and our help is prolonging the addiction, if there is any hope of it stopping... and the point where we just can’t physically, mentally, financially, do any more. We all have gotten there.

There’s two outcomes for them either they put their addiction into remission or they stay in it. If they stay in it, there are two outcomes for us. Either we go down with them or we jump ship and save ourselves.

Mtnmom. Thanks for your support. My son is on the same path. Different intensity, but same outcomes. We’re not going to bail our son out. Reading your story reinforces that my son will be back in jail within a short time. No job. No money. No food. He will steal to eat and be arrested for a sandwich next time.

We are hoping the court will figure something out.

Posted by: Sallyanna May 25, 2019, 11:45 AM
Yes, this site is so helpful and to know others understand. Bugs, I appreciate your posts too. In business there's a term called 'the point of diminishing returns' meaning the more resources you put in to something, it does nothing. I feel this is true. We can only do so much before there is no point in doing it anymore.....Its really up to them if they want to seek help and take the action steps to do so or if they want to continue down the destructive path of addiction.

Posted by: mtnmom May 26, 2019, 6:51 PM
Dear Bugging Me, NY2FL, Sad Eyes & SallyAnna (and all others!) I feel we have all shown nothing but support to each of us here. About our kids, unfortunately they are choosing this life. My son is still in jail & (fortunately) the district attorney filed misdemeanor "violation of court order" charges against him. (whew! I was afraid he'd get a felony charge). He SAID he's going to ask the Judge to add to the court orders for him to remain in his currant Sober Living house. I've talked to the sober living counselor & he's willing to allow my son back but with new, stricter rules. Meetings twice a day until employed, chores around the residence each day, weekly drug testing.

This is his 3rd arrest in about 3 or 4 weeks, for the same thing. he will NOT stay away from his ex, who has a restraining order against him. So we will see what he does when he is released.

Posted by: mtnmom May 28, 2019, 6:36 PM
Hey friends, I need advice - my son wants me to call a friend of mine who had set it up to give my son a job. He was offered this job in March & turned it down. Then employer emailed & offered again, my son accepted but got arrested before he was supposed to start. Was in custody 12 days. Employer was STILL going to hire him & then son got chickenpox, employer was STILL OK & told him to call today but son got arrested AGAIN last week & couldn't contact him. Now he wants me to call my friend & tell him "what happened". My gut says no, he created this mess, he needs to handle the consequences too.... I personally think it's an omen NOT to take this job because it is too far from his sober living & too close to the Ex who has the restraining order.... Am I right? I think I am because calling is excusing bad behavior & excusing bad behavior is enabling.... OK, see what I've learned from y'all?? I just answered my own dilemma

Posted by: Sallyanna May 28, 2019, 7:27 PM
I really agree with you. He needs to call and talk to the person. Its called being responsible and being a grown up. He should not expect you to call for him. He's more than grown.

Posted by: mtnmom May 29, 2019, 10:57 PM
And SallyAnna, they offered him the job the 1st of March & he turned it down because he thought it didn't pay enough. Then he got an email from them asking if he was still interested & he said yes. Was supposed to start but got arrested & couldn't contact them. They gave him another chance but by this time he had moved into sober living & the drive would be an hour & a half one way & that one way was right thru the town where gf w/ restraining order lives.... but on start day he broke out in what he said was chickenpox. They asked him to wait a full week because they didn't want chicken pox in the office. But he got arrested & can't contact them.

Posted by: NyToFlorida May 29, 2019, 11:34 PM
Hi mtnmom - just want to add my thoughts:

do not call for your son. I don't think it is a good recipe. 1.5 hours is too far. Too much gas especially when driving a truck. You will constantly hear how 'all his paycheck is going into the gas tank' … (like we haven't heard enough of that)… He will have to be getting up too early in order to get there on time. I can already hear the 'woes....'

Let him find a job close by to where he lives that might be a better fit for his circumstances.

In 2017 my son had a good job, in his field, with a long time friend as the supervisor. (he and the friend had worked together a few years ago) It would have been a secure job. except it was an hour away. son would not stay at his grandmother's house even once in a while to ease the pain of driving and exhaustion and gas usage. she lived 20 minutes to the job. had to be there at 6am. had the job for about 8 months. he was late too many times. son told us he was laid off, that it was seasonal. I saw an email he sent asking for his job back. I did not see a reply from the 'friend'. Unfortunately, my son was using during this time. I think he started stealing gas. He had a few enraged agruments because he wanted a raise. he also had a few fender benders. A person who was not an addict would have made it work.

Next job - as a flagman - thru the winter. had to use his own car and kept the car running a lot. to keep warm. the car took a beating.

last job - easiest - about 5 miles from home. landscapeing, maintenance on an estate, worked w one other guy. pay was average. Not a career, but easy enough and close enough to have minimal issues while trying to 'get his life together' …. nope hasn't done that yet. Even the easiest jobs become too hard for the addict.

my son's opportunities are getting smaller and smaller.

Maybe your son will be able to get back to a good job since he had worked many years at decent job.

Sorry for my rant... I am getting angry about lost opportunities.

PS - Did your son have chicken pox as a kid? It could have been hives, allergic reaction to medication or withdrawal.

my son had psoriasis - full body break out - when in college. I think it might have been due to drugs and alcohol. since then he complains that his scalp and back are breaking out. It never got as bad as it was in college, it comes and goes. I think it has to do with the drug use.

Posted by: Sallyanna May 30, 2019, 12:23 AM
Its really a long drive an hour and a half. He would be spending a lot of money on gas. Its great he has a job offer though. I hope he can leave his ex gf alone now.

Their logic really gets affected. My daughter's logic has gone out the window. After I talk to her I just shake my head and want to cry. Most times I do. Its sad.

Posted by: sad eyes May 30, 2019, 3:28 AM
I am also on the thoughts as everyone else, 1 1/2 hours is a long drive, 3 hours on top of his working day, it would be a Long day, also petrol, at the end of the day he has to make the desision,

Posted by: mtnmom May 31, 2019, 8:49 PM
He got out yesterday evening, spent the night in a hotel because the impound yard was closed. Went this a.m. & found out they IMPOUNDED his truck & are holding it for 30 days. He didn't know why though, I looked it up he has 2 tickets that are in Failure to appear status. Because one was not having his drivers license in possession, they suspend the license even though he has a valid license in another state! So, he has to go to court, show his valid DL & an order from the Judge ordering his truck released for hardship.... Geez, it's ALWAYS something!

Posted by: mtnmom May 31, 2019, 8:51 PM
He also checked on the job & they said "no thank you"... I think that is for the best

Posted by: NyToFlorida June 2, 2019, 10:17 PM
It’s always complicated. You think u checked all the boxes when u got the truck out of impound a few weeks ago, and then, surprise! It’s there again and more complicated. It doesn’t stop... ugh. Start detaching again. He needs to rely on his sober living support system.

Posted by: mtnmom June 3, 2019, 9:46 AM
Yes, NY2FL - it's a never ending abyss sucking the happiness out of my life. Last night he called - FINALLY made it up to the Sober Living house, signed a new contract & said he had to go to the store & who did he see? Her! 45 miles from her house & near the Sober Living. I don't believe him - I never believe him. We are leaving on a WELL DESERVED vacation to Alaska & Canada next Sunday, we will be gone 3+ months & will have limited cell reception & internet. Someone is going to have to man up & handle his own sh**. Last night he said he wanted to move to Alaska & work on a crabbing boat.... whatever son! Oh, he also wants to go to AZ & visit his older brother. The one he cursed out, called ever filthy, foul obscenity he could think of & told him that if he didn't help him "his blood (my addict son) would be on his hands. It's like he doesn't remember the things he said to all of us because none of us have heard an apology.

Posted by: NyToFlorida June 6, 2019, 6:45 PM
Enjoy your summer vacation!

Posted by: Sallyanna June 6, 2019, 8:24 PM
Yes, have a great time!!! Sounds awesome!

Posted by: sad eyes June 8, 2019, 7:37 AM
Mtnmom yes sounds like a well deserved break Alaska sounds beautiful enjoy

Posted by: mtnmom June 8, 2019, 8:59 AM
So the never ending swirling abyss of s*** continues to suck us down like a bottomless pit.... the sheriff's hold on the truck was a mistake & they released it. When he went to get it from the impound yard & they agreed I could pay the fees (again) & the sheriff was waiting & arrested him again for violation of the court order, apparently he again try to contact the ex gf (victim of the restraining order) I am exhausted, disgusted, hurt, angry. I KNEW I should have done it or anything for him, but I did. I'm angry at myself for daring to believe my darling drug addicted, psychotic son.....

Posted by: Sallyanna June 8, 2019, 10:30 AM
Sorry're right, don't do anything for him again. He needs to suffer all the consequences of his choices. Helping him only hurts you and obviously (as you well know) does nothing to change or help him. I can't believe he's still bothering his ex after numerous arrests. Just like my daughter, I tell her, it's your life you are in charge of it. You can value it and enjoy it or you can keep running it in the ditch. So far, she's been running it in the ditch.

Posted by: mtnmom June 8, 2019, 1:46 PM
I know SallyAnna!! I do not get it! He just called, he is DEFINITELY humbled now & knows he's going to be in jail, if not prison, for a while! This all originated because the girl broke up because of his erratic drug induced behavior & he would NOT leave her house. She got the restraining order to get him to leave her alone & move out. He moved out but still would not leave her alone. That's when the arrests started.... 1st one - about 5 days after RO was issued, booked & released. 2nd one (about 2 weeks after RO issued) - 12 days in jail, 3rd one - 10 days in jail, 4th one (holy sh** I just remembered this is the 4th one!!!) 7 days after his release but he just called me & admitted that he sent her a voice mail on Sunday - 4 days after he was released.

Posted by: Sallyanna June 8, 2019, 2:15 PM
Like Albert Einstein said, 'you can't solve a problem with the same mindset that got you into it'

Posted by: NyToFlorida June 8, 2019, 9:19 PM
I’m surprised they kept letting him out. My son has been in jail since about May 16. 3weeks for stealing a bag of potatoe chips. $250 bail. We have not bailed him out. He had an arrest one year ago, he was going to court once a month. So they might have put both case together. He might go to long term rehab if the judge decides that. Or he might stay in jail for 6 months. We really don’t know. I talked to him about 2 weeks ago. I keep missing his calls.

He said he stole a bag of chips, but maybe it was something else. Idk.

Posted by: mtnmom June 9, 2019, 10:06 PM
NY2FL - I think the ex-GF knows people in the Sheriff's Dept & unfortunately, lots of people working in the courts know me. It is never said out loud, but I think people look at him differently because I had a good reputation when I worked there, I was the district manager. He's not being arrested for drug offenses & to look at him, you CANNOT tell he's an addict. These offenses are STUPID!!!!! All are Contempt of Court, all misdemeanors. The help he has received from everyone didn't help him at all, in his narcissistic, meth damaged mind he's NEVER been held accountable for long. Even today, he called me a couple of times. Angry today that he's going to lose everything & could I PLEASE coordinate SOMEONE getting his car out of impound (no one is willing to pay the NEW impound fees of $50 a day. His sober living manager tried calling the Sheriff & they said we have to have the license plate number (we don't & son doesn't know it), called the tow yard & we have to have a signed release from the sheriff, which they won't do without the license number.... So, the red flags are telling us that 1. DON'T DO IT & 2. he's dug himself into a hole that NO ONE can do anything about. My husband is having a VERY hard time - logically he knows there is nothing more we can or should do, emotionally he needs to help his son however he can. Thanks to all you parents & partners here - you have helped me learned to try to stop enabling. I'm not good at it, but I'm getting there. Logically I know my "help" has NOT & my son needs to experience this NOW if he's ever going to improve his life.... No one EVER has spoke to me or treated me (and my family) SO disrespectfully, hurtfully & with ZERO remorse... EVER in my 61 years....

Posted by: Sallyanna June 9, 2019, 10:19 PM
It seems to me this just becomes a way of life for them.....'winging it'. They 'wing it' just to get's like an obscure art form and they're really good at it.