12 Days In And I Want To Win
Posted: December 5, 2014, 6:19 PM

Posts: 1
Joined: December 5, 2014

Josh, your story has been a sliver of hope in a constant world of negative attitudes. I have been on suboxone now for almost a year and I have been gearing up to jump off at a slightly lower dose than you did but a high one all the same ( no need to post the dosage). I feel I share a similar resilience in my attitude about the withdrawal and everything that comes with it as well as what it represents. These fear riddled suboxone message boards need more strong willed individuals such as yourself to tell other mentally ready/strong people that it will suck but if you want it bad enough you can do it. I have looked at many different message boards over the last few months and definitely see the lack in confidence many people have and are so quick to tell others they are going to not be able to do it. Anyway, I am tired of being a mental slave to the pharmaceutical company's who seek to enslave us in a circle of false hope. I understand some people need suboxone more than others, there is nothing wrong with that if you know you truly would be worse off without it. I am at the point however where I am mentally disgusted with it and know I won't be free mentally or spiritually until I rid my body of this unnatural substance. I am jumping off in three weeks and plan on documenting as much as I can on here so I can hopefully be a ray of light for someone else in the future. People need to remember that negative begets negative, positivity is the only way to come out of the darkness. Just wanted to thank you Josh for being who you are. Stay strong brotha.
Posted: December 11, 2014, 2:30 PM

I just wanted to say to all of you that have contributed to this post, that you are all such an inspiration.!!
Josh-I have followed you throughout your journey and it truly is motivating and I cannot tell you enough how much you have helped me and I am sure a lot of us going through the same thing.

I wish you all the best and send all my prayers and thoughts to those still suffering.. Remember everything will pass, for me it was crucial to to set some kind of goals and want to really change.. I kept relapsing because I didn't see the point, but life is so precious and short, it is not worth spending it in a haze.

Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery, Today is a gift that is why it is called THE PRESENT!!!

I know while you are going through this it doesn't seem that way because suboxone warps our reality, but, as Josh says, everyday you start seeing the world through happier glasses, my last little quote that I felt, explains it a bit..

In fact, everything we encounter in this world with our six senses is an inkblot test.
You see what you are thinking and feeling, seldom what you are looking at.

1 last thing AA and NA meetings help a lot!! Just to get out and listen to others that have been there and you might even hear something someone says that resonates with you...
Posted: December 12, 2014, 10:43 AM

Posts: 1
Joined: October 14, 2014

What a very positive post and message. I have really enjoyed reading your posts Josh and others that have felt the need to share their story. Josh, what is your current status and update?

For those facing jumping off subox, you're not alone and lots of people are going through the same feelings. These drugs really mess with your head and make you crave them. There are lots of alternative treatment methods that you can do at home and use to get off subox and actually live a real sober life. You can do it. You have to be ready though and have to be willing to go through hell and back. You will look back on that day as the best day of your life in a few years.

This post has been edited by moderator on December 24, 2014, 9:28 AM

Legacy Freedom Treatment Center
Posted: December 23, 2014, 7:44 PM

I am 15 days off subs. Weaned to a sliver of subs but it was still hell getting here.i m better but still not much energy and sore all over. I used kratom which uses the different opiate receiptERS mildly that causes little to no withdrawals in itself it helped so much when nothing else would. My question is when you went from 67 days to 1 year in between was it still a gradual thing or much better all the way? I have pain and weakness and very impatient now. But much better. How are you now?
Posted: December 27, 2014, 9:05 PM

Josh, reading your progress makes me so happy! I have been on Suboxone for 2 and a half years. I don't want to have withdrawals, especially bad ones so I am going to taper for hopefully 7 days on each amount. I'm on probably about 1 or 1.5 mg a day now. Hopefully I can be honest on here because I feel like I have no one else to tell this to but I need to get it off of my chest. I relapsed last Sunday then again Wednesday then again yesterday. So since Sunday I have got high 3 times. I'm really disappointed in myself but hopefully I can get a reply on this and someone says something that will be me feel more encouraged to stay clean. I was clean 4 months and then relapsed on Labor Day in September and a few times since then. Anyway, I'm really not sure what do to but I don't think I need the Suboxone. The only thing it is helping is me not getting sick.. As far as cravings and wanting to use, its not doing anything to help that.
Posted: January 5, 2015, 9:53 PM

Posts: 16
Joined: January 24, 2014

Hello everyone,
Today I am 356 days clean and Cant believe in 9 more days it will be a year! Sorry it has been a while since my last update but my current status is I am staying strong even. Everyday still gets better. no matter what others have to say about my past and things like it is not possible to do this, well let me tell you it is possible and even though my past haunts me sometimes I try not to look back and just take another step for another day that goes by.

To Suboxone thanks for following my story and the ups and the downs of it, but it is getting nothing but much better as everyday that goes by.

Also want to thank NLRich for your comments and support. My current status and update have been explained in this post and I am staying strong.

To John from day 67 to almost a year everyday that went by got a little bit easier even though it was still tough. It seemed everyday that when by my eyes opened a little more and everyday I can see more clearly.To this day I still get craving to do opiates but I wont take another pain killer even if I am injured and the doctor prescribes me pain medication. It is up to you and only you to really just say no it. Even though I do get cravings from time to time it is not as bad as when I first jumped off obviously. It is now easier to say no then before especially since I have my energy levels back and I see the world more clear, not like before when I was trying to see through murky water.

To Amy1991 it is not about being honest on here, It is about being honest with yourself. What I mean is you can tell who ever you want you are staying clean ( your parents, your spouse, your friends, etc) But what it really comes down to is staying true to yourself. If you want to stop you have to want it for yourself to become a healthier you. I can give you all the replies and excuses to stay clean in the world but like I said before it comes down to you and the decisions you make. I know all about relapsing I did for years on opiates and suboxone. I know it is very easy to give in and get high. cause it is just a little strip or such a tiny pill and you magically feel better, but if you truly want to feel better just say no to it. I know it is not the easy way out of this considering you get sick when you dont take the medication. Well I cant tell you, you will feel amazingly spectacular when stop taking these thing because you probably won't. You just need to find the will power inside yourself to be that stronger person. Your mind is such an amazing tool and can wonderful things. You just need to make it want to stop even though it saying take me and the pain is gone. You will most likely go through pain considering you put your mind and body through years of abuse. But you can still come out victorious. No matter how much you think you can not do it. Deep inside yourself somewhere buried within you have the willpower to do this for you and only for you!

To everyone going through this right now. I give all of my prayers and wishes to fight another day and be strong only for yourself. good luck to everyone and take life one day at a time.
Posted: January 30, 2015, 10:50 AM

I am so happy to find these kinds of posts for inspiration! I am on day 10 of detoxing off soboxone 1-2 mg a day...I was never addicted to percs my boyfriend passed away I was totally depressed n just turned to subtext n suboxine...I didnt think it would take this long day 7 is when it got real bad n been hell ever since..
Posted: January 30, 2015, 5:16 PM

Posts: 20
Joined: January 27, 2015

very interesting, I havent yet read read it in its entirety, but have read most of them so sorry if this is in there.

How far in did you start to sleep without the constant inability to get comfortable (like 7 or more hours/8 in bed is what i mean)

also when did the fatigue die down to the point that motivation was able to get you up and doing things, i did find working and working out helped, but last time i jumped at 8 i only made it 2 weeks before i went back on it. Mainly because of the inability to do my job properly. Most people dont believe me when i tell them i went 5 days straight without sleep, and almost none in days after. (i took no sleep meds though)

about 2 years later now and decided to taper down, idk how far, im already at .25mg, but i intent to cut it in half once or twice more in the next 2 weeks or so if possible.

getting the chills here in the middle of winter in michigan kinda sucks, cali would be nice. even worse than getting the chills in winter is getting the cold sweats, damn arm pits were soaked to the bottom of my shirt when weather was below freezing.

This post has been edited by stinkfist on January 30, 2015, 5:30 PM
Posted: February 1, 2015, 3:37 AM

Posts: 16
Joined: January 24, 2014


Today I am 382 days in and just passed the one year hump. Just been trying to keep my head up and keep moving forward with my life.

To Determined27 Just keep going strong even though it is not an easy thing. Is there more to your story how long have you been on subs? I can maybe give you some advise. I am not a doctor but I have threw it, I can say that much and maybe that can be more then what a doctor can say. I am very sorry to hear about your Boyfriend passing. Weather you want to think so or not things do get better with time. I learned you just need to be patient with all things that are tough in life. Especially with close people passing. I would be more then happy to listen and read your story and maybe give some feed back. Best wishes to you.

To Stinkfist No problem on not reading the whole story. I am sure it is boring anyway and I never actually read it myself and typed it and that is it. I have never reread what I have posted to be honest. To be honest sleeping was one of the worst things for me but I think it was about to months before I could sleep through the night. I would cry, grunt, scream, kicking my legs in rage of anger not being able to sleep through the night. I did get some medication though cause it was driving me literally insane. For restless legs I got "Hylands restful legs" which is a natural over the counter medication, that helped. I also used Melatonin supplements which brings on a natural sleepiness. I was also taking a very low dose of klonopin. When the script of klonopin ran out I just stuck to the Melatonin and the Hylands. I didn't want to take the Klonopin because it is addictive and I didn't want to get stuck on something else when I was trying to get clean. So I tried to stick to natural things like homeopathic remedies and such. It does take a lot of time to get energy back maybe a good month to start feeling normal again and to just start getting out of that fogged reality of things. I also did not sleep for 5 days straight. I know what this is like. Tapering down is a great idea it should help a lot when you do decide to jump. When I jumped it was from 8mg and it was not a fun road. For the chills in winter just dress warm even if you are sweating. I am from jersey and it gets pretty cold there also. Hey if want to talk some more let me know. I am here to shed light on people going through tough times. Best of luck to you my friend and I hope thing start to look up for you.
Posted: February 20, 2015, 10:36 AM

Hey all, day 25 off 4 yrs of 16 mg sub a day plus the 6 or so years of opiate addiction before, been taking herbal stuff for energy and mood and it seems to help... sleep is still not great, but everything else is so much better!!!!! I weened down to 2 mg a dah before i made the jump but i reccomend going lower, just dont give up, you can get away from the subs!!! Stick to it and dont give in!!!!!
Posted: March 17, 2015, 4:01 PM

Posts: 1
Joined: March 17, 2015

You all encourage and inspire me, thank you. Day 13 free and clear - once you see that light at the end, and you all will know what I mean it gets easier so hang in there! You've got to really want it, and bad. I jumped from 4mg / Sub 2 year habit ( cause let's face it Suboxone mite as well be Percocet or Herion, you're just replacing it for something else and getting it legally) let alone my years of opiate abuse.

I just got sick of it all. If I had to do it all over I would've just quit opiates altogether CT. But you know what they say about hindsight... Anyway for me, because of the half-life of that "evil drug" days 3-7 were the worst. Complete torture, I strongly urge anyone contemplating using Subs NOT TO! I took Clonidine and Visatral very minimally to curb some of the discomfort. It wasn't easy but I pushed through the worst of it. I made myself do things. You have to want it, you have to tell yourself it's worth it. I know this sounds cliché but everyday does get a little better/easier.

For me it's been about pushing myself and wanting to do it. You have to first make up your mind then change your attitude and certain things about your life.
My diet has changed, daily routines have changed, I've rid of things that caused me stress, etc. Vitamins and other supplements.
I've recently started taking Naltraxone (I was reluctant at first) but it really was when I turned the corner and started to notice the light at the end, it almost instantly killed that "craving" feeling I couldn't escape. I still deal with some anxiety, usually the first two hours in the AM then it passes, and a constant need to stretch!! How f'n annoying.. But that's where I'm at, I feel like a new person, and it's only been 13 days. Can't wait to see what tomorrow brings. It's all subjective, everyone is different and everyone will go through different versions of WD. This was just my version.

Also, L-Tyrosine and B6.. Goodbye malaise ... Try it!
Exercise Exercise Exercise - your body will thank you, force yourself!! It totally has improved my daily day to day feeling
And Music

Good luck to you all that are fighting the sober fight! I'll be joining and fighting alongside you!

God Bless

This post has been edited by igotsht on March 17, 2015, 5:48 PM
Posted: April 5, 2015, 4:25 AM

10 days into withdrawal. Finally slept last night but woke up groggy n lethargic. Well done everyone and thanks for such detailed posts. It really helps x
Posted: April 9, 2015, 9:10 PM

Posts: 2
Joined: April 9, 2015

I'm on day two, no suboxone, due for my script tomorrow. But reading these posts I kind of just want to be done with it. But I also feel like complete s**t.
Posted: April 10, 2015, 12:33 PM

Booger, What's your dosage?
Posted: April 30, 2015, 6:26 AM

Thanks for sharing your story, very encouraging!
Posted: June 17, 2015, 12:12 AM

Day 8 suboxone withdrawal. I took 3 8mg films per day for the last 6 years of my life. Well, they started out as tabs. Disgusting yet delicious orange powder garbage. Thousands and thousands of dollars spent on the garbage. Hundreds of hours spent in doctors offices and pharmacies. My doctor my dealer and pharmacy the supplier. A business as big as it gets. My doctors office has glass in the window because of the cash that flows through that place on any given day. Even with good insurance,I was paying over a hundred a month for the script and 150 for the visit. Holy sh!t that's insane. But in my mind it was Better than chasing an oxy everyday or a handful of Percocet. I am here to tell you that I don't need any of it. You don't need any of it. Take the 250 and go on a vacation. It's 3 grand a year. That's a decent trip. Or whatever your motive. I've got two daughters I love. I have an ex I am trying to work things out with. I have a great job, family and pets. Look into your own life, what's more motivating than those who love you or having some money or just having control of your life without a substance to get you going. I'll post more, I tell the tale of my addiction but now I'm celebrating 8 days without and performing highly because I know I can. I'll win this!! I encourage you all to do the same. I've got the sneezes and yawns, I sleep a couple hours a night. I sit in the bathtub cause it feels good. Drink Gatorade, take vitamin B, take a multivitamin too. Take ginseng and a small amount of Advil for aches. Beat it, it's not that bad.
Posted: June 17, 2015, 1:03 AM

So moments later I can't sleep. Lot on my mind. Lots of things unsaid. So I'll say em. Days 2-4 suck asss. I recommend ammodium for those days and maybe even plan on taking off work those days. But around day 5 if you did a little work the days prior, like 20 minutes of exercise each day, you will feel a turn. Change your attitude too. Positivity is powerful!! I used cocain daily from around the age of 23 until 25. Then used OxyContin, snorting hopefully an 80 everyday for another 5 years. I was 30. I had a 2 year old daughter and a 6 month old daughter. I had hidden my use from everyone the entire time. A totally functioning addict. Buying more than I needed and selling the others to cover the cost. Working in bars handling cash and skimming to buy or giving drinks to trade. I needed something to "get me going." What a f:) king joke that is. Is that my life? Is it yours? Do you hustle? Wait on dealers? Get taken? Let down? Why???????? Life truly is all the motivation I need to get out of bed now. I used to see it differently. I came clean to my new wife who was devistaded. We are separated 3 years now because of it. She stayed a while, like two years but the resentment took over. I don't blame her. Yeah I was mad, hurt all that. Acted a fool. It's later now. It's been three years. Suboxone got me clean. It controlled it. But it is a crutch. Listen to me if you read nothing else. SUBOXONE IS A CRUTCH!! Do you need a crutch to live your life? I don't anymore. I was on suboxone for 6 years. I'm a 36 year old man. I have a 7 year old and a 5 year old. They are the greatest part of my life. Don't wait 6 years to kick the suboxone. I started at 3 1/2 tabs a day. Never made it below 90 a month. Wtf. The doctors let it happen. I had 2 doctors. One so corrupt I met him a couple Sundays in the office parking lot and paid him cash for the script. Then next doctor was more straight edge, drug tested me, tried to counsel for 10 minutes. Lol seriously 10 or less. I was tired of going on his crappy available hours, waiting at the pharmacy. Geez! Worse than waiting at the dealers place for him to "break it out." I'm taking my life back. I'm taking my wife back. Food and excercise is better than pharmaceuticals!!!!!!
Posted: December 1, 2015, 5:51 PM

Just found this page, and I couldn't possibly relate any further. Today is my 12th day without any Suboxone, one thing I can say definitively is that I never expected the withdrawls to drag on this long... I can feel it getting easier each day, but its a fraction at a time. I came off of 55mgs of Methadone last month, and I definitely appreciate the way I feel now on a daily basis compared to 2 weeks with no sleep, legs jumping, sweating, shivering and spending half of my day either on the toilet or in the shower (showering was my only brief moment of relief). I checked myself into a detox center after almost two weeks of Methadone hell, it took forever due to the scarce openings available. As soon as I got there the nurse put me on Suboxone and it honestly felt like I had been brought back to life (as pathetic as that sounds) but little did I know they don't set you up with a doctor or a script, they start you on 8mgs and wean you down over the course of three days. It definitely helped, along with the forced socialization, groups, N/A meetings, it actually felt nice to be a part of something after living so long in isolation with my drugs and loneliness, I have forgotten completely how to deal with social situations, how to have friends, just how to get by on a daily basis without an escape route. The absolute worst thing for me is this black cloak of depression and lack of motivation that has surfaced through all of this. When I was on suboxone in detox, all I wanted to do was get home because I finally felt okay. I was so sick and tired of being sick and tired, so much that the mere thought of being able to do laundry or make it up the stairs without having heart palpitations sounded exhilarating. In a way, I almost feel like I set myself up to fail by being so optimistic about being ready to function again normally. I just couldn't stand the complacency of being sick and giving up, it had taken such a toll on me that I could no longer lay in bed anymore. The first day I came home I felt like a million f***ing dollars; I hadn't laughed or enjoyed the company of other people since I could remember, so that was one thing detox did for me that I could never do for myself, it actually felt quite nice to be shoved from my comfort zone. I'm quite set in my ways, so it was interesting to see myself begin to change in retrospect. I came home anxious to see my Boyfriend and my family and finally be normal, the first day back was amazing, being the ADD drug addict that I am I needed the change of scenery. I remember just trying to take it easy, but I ended up staying up all night not being able to relax, because I knew Suboxones relief was going to be brief, and I didn't want to miss out on its last ounce of normality. The next day was a direct descent straight onto my face. I woke up hating life, hating everything, especially myself. I had done exactly what detox told me to do, as far as getting real honest with myself, and looking at myself sick and miserable I have never hated myself more. I couldn't help comparing myself to everyone else around me, so normal and content with life, watching them just go about life seemingly completely gratified by the simplicity of goals and happiness. I'm only 21 years old and I can hardly pull myself through each day. The hardest part of all of this is the fact that I live my boyfriend, granted hes taken good care of me when I needed it, but I'm the kind of person who hates being sick or depressed around anyone. He's an ex heroin addict, so of course he knows what I'm going through, but at the same time its been over a month and it feels I've been through the ringer and I'm so exhausted and ready to give up. Sympathy from others stops quite abruptly after the first week or two of being so sick that you're incapacitated. No one seems to understand how empty I feel, and how badly its scaring me. The only words of wisdom I've received are the same old "this isn't going to be forever." Which in turn actually terrifies me, because I can't imagine feeling this empty for another second, and I have literally no idea where life is going to take me after this hurdle is actually over. I used to be such a driven person, an artist, a poet, a singer. God has always been a driving force in my life, and I have noticed little instances where I can feel him sort of winking at me, reminding me that this is one of those situations that happens for a definite reason. I've been through pretty hard times in my life, and I just hope to extract some strength and wisdom from this. I just feel like I've lost myself to the drugs, the thought of a little blue pill taking over my entire existence is baffling to me. The past couple days my boyfriend has been working I've spent my time listening to Led Zeppelin & The Beatles on Pandora, (music does have its perks when you're blue), and just trying to do household chores to keep it moving and pass time. I know that giving up now and getting back on subs would just be idiotic and just prolonging the inevitable, and besides I'm young and already this beaten down so why wait? If anybody has any advice for speeding up this process, or just ways to get your spark back, I'd be super grateful. I just want to be able to start working again. Sitting around reciting the serenity prayer in my head while moping and chain smoking is a hindrance! Thanks for reading :)
Posted: December 1, 2015, 6:06 PM

Posts: 1905
Joined: October 23, 2011

Are you attending NA meetings regularly?

I find it funny that you thought you would just walk away from addiction free and easy.

I found in my recovery that this video explained the recovery process (which never ends) quite well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wue34ddAz9w

I wish you well in your recovery.
You will likely have to give up your idea about how it should be and get used to how it is.

I also don't know any "ex heroin addicts" but I do know many in remission who later get worse if they don't get serious about their lifelong recovery .

All the best.
Bob R

This post has been edited by Papa Bear on December 1, 2015, 6:10 PM

Serenity Prayer
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

Free copy of AA's Big Book on-line: http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/alcoh...olics-anonymous

Free copy of NA's Big Book on-line:
Copy & Paste coastalcarolinaarea.org/literature/books/b_t.pdf

Copy & paste www.aa.org/assets/en_US/p-10_howitworks.pdf



--- driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity.

---there are those too who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

... I need AA more than it needs me.

--- I fight recovery tooth and nail....
I'm not used to being sane, it just doesn't seem natural.

...... According to the great spiritual teachers, ignorance does not result from what we don’t know; ignorance results from what we think we do know.

---Some think that 2+2=5 and believe it.
Some know that 2+2=4 and can't stand it.

--- I didn't have a very happy childhood
but I sure am having a long one !

---Dry since 1989
working daily on getting/staying SOBER.

---If you want to drink, that's your business
...If you want to quit, that's AA's business.

... Tell me, I'll forget;
... Show me, I'll remember;
... Engage me, I'll understand.

---Most problems are psychological.
Most solutions are spiritual .

"If we try to change our ego with the help of our ego, we only have a better-disguised ego."
--Richard Rohr

WWBWD (What Would Bill W. Do)
Posted: April 27, 2016, 8:59 AM

Hello everyone,

I have been reading some of these because this has come up in my life. I am on the other side of this epidemic. I am the mother of an 18 year of son who started with pills, then ended up stealing from us to support this addiction. Oddly I have been unable to get the help I think he needs. It is crazy that I had to get the police involved to save his life. It got so bad that he wanted to end his life with heroin. Unfortunately to intervene I had to do some unconventional things to save him due to the lack of help in my area.

The first time he got out of the house we found him and stopped him from doing this. That night he got out again with my bank card!!! Because of this I was able to get the Police involved to get him. He ended up in jail which was terrible. I thank them so much but jail is no place for addicts and people who want to end their life. He ended up being in a cell naked with six other people who also wanted to end their life. He lost 10 pounds in four days and ended up with the flu. I don't blame the Police because this is not their job to hold your hand while you are detoxing. They are not equip to deal with this!! Not only that you are treated like trash. You are the bottom of the barrel. You are scum to them!! I fell because they don't know what to do and it is not suppose to be pleasant. So thank God they got him and saved his life!!

Now the problem is, because this is an epidemic of mass proportions help does not exist for us. If I had the money for a private facility he could get help. Also because physicians have to have a special license to prescribe Suboxone those places are filled to capacity. If they were not filled it would cost us $1500.00 + a month for him to be in out patient therapy. To know that makes me feel like these greedy SOB's will get theirs in the end!!! I am hoping this is a good thing because I have read about Suboxne and it seems addictive in and of itself. I have read allot of articles and it appears Physicians are reluctant to wen you off of it. I believe this is due to the big bucks they are making off of it!!!

So in light of all this we are trying natural ways to get him thru this. I know it is hard for him he tries to be in good spirits but I can tell he is having a hard time. We are keeping a close eye on him and have made changes so he can't leave the house. He was is college, now that is on the back burner for awhile. I found a Therapist who is working with him but he is only a certificated social worker. We have our family doctor also but these people can only do so much. It never occurred to me that because he is 11 days clean he is not a high enough risk!!

If anyone can guide me to a way to better help him I would appreciate it. He wants to be clean and sober so that is a good thing. It is the cravings I fear that will get the best of him. I read some of the post from Joshb872008 and I wonder how he is today?? These post give me high hopes so thanks for sharing. I pray for each and everyone of you!! I know how hard this is and if you have limited means it is even harder!! With that being said God Bless us all!!

To the drug makers making money off of this Mass Epidemic SCREW YOU!! To the Physicians lining your pockets you can go...well you get the point!!! To the drug dealers.. you just wait we are about to have a new President and you are gonna get what is coming to you as well!!!

Thanks to the VBP Officers who found my son and saved his life. You went the extra mile and I am eternal grateful! Love you guys.
  top of page  Top