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|Message Board > Methadone > Methadone Yes Or No?|
|Posted by: Joey June 10, 2017, 4:03 PM|
|I have been a drug addict and alcoholic for 20 years. 10 years ago I took my first opiate pill. Since then I have been to rehab many many times, detox's, fighting against opiate addiction. In 10 years I have had - 1 year 6 months straight clean time off everything - multiple 4 month and 6 month. I'm basically used to just cold turkey withdrawl or a inpatient detox. I continue to relapse all the time and try and get clean. My life is completely a disaster now. Like I have nothing. It's not all just opiates. I'm a complete iv drug user and alcoholic. We all know how brutal opiate addiction is. Having said that I'd consider myself a mild user of opiate in comparison to other ppl. however, objectively at this moment I have nothing. going back to treatment tomorrow or next day.
I do not have judge people on methadone, however, I never personally used it as a way out of my addiction. Where I live it's only becoming more easily available. I always believed I could get clean methadone free. I plan on going in long term treatment. I just went through two weeks of hell just getting of my mild opiate use, I just used a pill today. Even my mild use seems to drag out. I'm worried like crazy of getting on methadone to only want to get off. I''ve only heard horror stories. But I can't seem to function or have any balance in life. Please advise . thanks.
|Posted by: JunkyDave June 10, 2017, 4:39 PM|
|I would say that unless your life depends on it ,don't fool with methadone. At least this is the advice I wish someone had given to me 10 years ago... good luck.|
|Posted by: joey June 10, 2017, 5:21 PM|
|I totally understand where you are coming from. I withdrew countless times and remained clean for several months. Or go to a sober living house. like i said the longest time i had complete sober off all drugs and booze. 1 year and 6 months. I was could never stop the thought of using. I do not know if this is different. I mean withdrew from pills. So what I am saying. I can be a sitting duck in rehab and plot my relapse no matter how many months clean before.
I know that's what addiction is, but with opiate addiction, one relapse always leads back to dope sick and f***ing your entire life up. I"m just looking at this from a logical perspective. 10 years of fighting opiate addiction. I even had periods where i only used once or twice a week. get away with that then end up hooked and sick again. I'm so sick of being sick and relpasing. My life today is a total mess. I lost countless jobs this year. I have nothing. family doesnt want anything to do with me. im basically homeless and have no money or food waiting to get into a detox centre and try this absinitence thing all over again. Like wtf? I'm not saying the methadone route is the ticket but i do know of some people who do hold jobs and have some consistentcy whether or not they are completetly sober off other drugs. I'd love to just go to detox and rehab, and a sober living house and build up this determination and be a AA star and tell my story and remain clean and sober. Just a really tough decsion. Doctors are telling me to get on suboxone. I decline time after time. I'm a real fighter and i feel like im giving in by taking methadone. but man i beat and broke and at this moment just a little pill sick not bad but just enough to make me depressed and no energy and just want to do nothing except be depressed. so i go to detox tomorrow with willing arms to put me on something. tell me not to and tell me im going to make it without.
|Posted by: Lvg June 10, 2017, 5:44 PM|
|Hey Joey, Methadone is a whole other beast. Was on it for years and still taking 20 diludads a day. If you have exhausted all other options I would look into going the sub route. Look up Robert325 sub taper plan. If followed to the letter it Works. Good luck on your journey..|
|Posted by: Joey June 10, 2017, 5:53 PM|
|Thanks, the horror stories of methadone really deter me. I just watch people come into the detox centre all the time , just young people, maybe only used for 6 months because pills were availble and they put them on methadone on the spot. They think I'm the idiot going through withdrawls because i want off dope. i mean people like 20 years old on banging maybe 2 or 3 eights a day to methadone. they are finally supporting subxone more now. Just reading these horror stories really makes me think twice but i'm sick now and if i had money id use. maybe ill consider suboxone. though it's really costly and i can't afford it.|
|Posted by: Lvg June 10, 2017, 7:10 PM|
|Hey Joey, I quit cold turkey off Massive amounts of methadone and diluads. It was Awful, the worst of the wds for me lasted 21days, from the bed to the toilet,ughh awful like the flu times 10 but I made it out the other side now over 7 months clean... You can do this just really have to want this for yourself. I wouldn't change a thing if that devil whispers in my ear the horrific traumatic wds deter me.|
|Posted by: Joey June 10, 2017, 7:44 PM|
|basically i left may1st and hoped a plane to another city. i did this to get off pills. to me my withdrawal was horrendous. i did not vomit, just awful though. so after two weeks of barley getting my energy back. i stayed with a friend who is on 150mg of methadone. that was may15th to june6th. Even though most withdrawals were over i took 10mls a day for two weeks. just set me back. in the last week i had two diluadids 8s. I still feel a bit s***ty. And im going into treatment tomorrow. i was seriously considering methadone because i just want to feel better. feel good. feel like i have energy. Im scared to go through another 5 -7months of treatment, sober living house then relapse. although i know i can do this without. i know my withdrawals are peanuts compared to other users and people trying to drop methadone. It''s a move I make can affect the rest of my life -- this is like a real life changer -- i can't even imagine how horrible those withdrawals would be when i could barley come off mild pill use. Though my life is in ruins and im so f***ed. i started feeling i can get the motivation to live drug free. maybe those withdrawals were your like rock bottom or whatever and maybe my life at the moment is. i have no where to live, no job, no money, no food, my family hates me, im alwawys drunk and banging coke, and im sitting here with a few days sober waiting to get into detox. id use if i had money but im too tired and depressed to find a way to make that work. im just done trying to get a fix. so if i can sit here sober with lethergic feeling in my body and probably mild restless tonight im on my way i hope. just dont want the devil on my shoulder in two months plotting my relaspe after i build myself up again. thats the only reason i want to condsider methadone.. but i can't imagine the chain cuffs and horrible withdrawal of wanting off methadone. i like how look healthy when im clean. i think it's possible.|
|Posted by: Lvg June 10, 2017, 7:53 PM|
|Hey Joey,have you been to NA? I'll keep checking in on you tnght definitely don't use as you know a downhill slide.|
|Posted by: Lvg June 10, 2017, 7:58 PM|
|Joey, everyone's rock bottom is different. I have gotten some clean time and things are starting to come together for me. Relationship with family and friends, I was all Alone for many many years,with my best friend Opiates...ughh Awful. What a fn mess I created in my wake. But I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. An addict alone is bad company. For me death was inevitable...|
|Posted by: Joey June 10, 2017, 8:57 PM|
|Thanks Lvg, I have been to many NA meetings. I'm known by lots of members and have lots of contacts.
I will not use tonight. I have no desire to manipulate, lie, or steal my way to a fix. I always had this thing I have to go to detox completely out of my mind but really you end up bringing half the things you need and try and get the rest delivered haha.
Not really sure what to say. But this methadone thing has been on my mind. Basically because I want to feel better now. I never been down the road. Im not that sick I can't wake up in the morning. I been through the worst already. I'm worried about the future. that's a fail i know.
But it's a touch choice. but it's also been a while i been to long term treatment i mean like 6 to 8 months so hopefully during that time. I can get recovery and put my temptations to rest.
methadone will stop me from using pills iv but then i could do every other drug and iv you coke and drink my face off and still get my methadone. just won't get my carries. and wont get dope sick. i so sick of being dope sick.
i been contemplating this for years. so is it a fix methadone i do not know. i do know that it's a hard choice "for me" at this moment. ill keep yas updated.
|Posted by: Lvg June 10, 2017, 10:09 PM|
|Joey, You have to want this for yourself. Clean off all Drugs... Methadone replacing one drug for another. I know you know the drill.. So with that said jails, institutions or Death. Your choice. Nothing changes If nothing changes....|
|Posted by: joey June 11, 2017, 9:26 AM|
|I know the drill I sure do. Though I attended meetings right up till my relapse after 1 year and a 6 months. I guess I could attribute it to what ? not my time? I do not think I will use methadone because I don't want that burden of being owned by the clinic then worrying about getting off it.
I also don't want to continue to destroy my life. So it's not working either way. I contacted my sponsor I told him I was going to relapse. I did all the things a recovering addict should do. I can't tell if this is my time or not. But if i don't get a time I'm going downhill everytime. I dont know what to say.
|Posted by: Lvg June 11, 2017, 10:06 AM|
|Your clean for today, your taking all positive steps towards recovery. It's what you do your actions some of us fail,but it's only a Failure if you don't try and learn from your mistakes.. You can't possibly want to repeat the cycle over and over again. You got this...|
|Posted by: Lvg June 11, 2017, 10:07 AM|
|It Works if you Work it!!|
|Posted by: Joey June 11, 2017, 10:51 AM|
|I do know what you are saying. I guess it may. No gurantee ever on sobriety though. I've seen the hardest AA NA members relpase with 6 years etc etc etc etc. Though I'm not here to pick apart recovery or what works or what might work. How to run a recovery program. How to work it if you work it. Or if you want it enough?
I'm here looking at my life objectively with minimal results with NA and trying to do that way with complete abstinecnce. I do believe in it.
I'm taking a logical approach here.
I definitely do not want to be on methadone/ or really suboxone.
Though I'm 37 I'm not getting any younger and I'm basically homeless because of my addiction.
I do know people who maintain jobs on methadone.
I understand it's your experience on methadone. I really do not want to do it.
So the best you can tell me is work it if you work it? no negitive gesture intended. but i been doing that for 10 years and I don't know what im missing. Not working the steps properly etc etc etc. I'm not talking my way into methadone.
I want a realistic answer to a really bad situation. Not a hope of insight of intention. I mean we don't know the future. But we take what we have learned right??? 10 years and no where.. and figure a way that will work. if the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over by taking that drink or drug.. which you hear all the time at AA or NA. Well doesnt that apply to this. going to meetings over and over and expecting a different result "insanity" since it's been 10 years and im basically homeless. I got no food today. I feel like s***.
So this is just an objective view of this situation. Take it for what it is worth.
|Posted by: Lvg June 11, 2017, 11:02 AM|
|Forget yesterday,don't worry about tomorrow, what are you going to do for yourself Today...|
|Posted by: Joey June 11, 2017, 10:22 PM|
|Posted by: HeavenSent. June 11, 2017, 11:18 PM|
|I too struggled with an opiate addiction for 10 years. I've tried to get clean on my own and battled through the nasty feeling of withdrawals oh so many times. and I couldn't kick my habit for the life of me..now I know a lot of people are hesitant when it comes to methadone clinics, I use to be one of them actually. but after trying EVERYTHING else, I gave it a try. and to my surprise, its kept me sober..I've been able to keep a steady job, no more sick days, and my over all head space is so much better. it worked for me and I count my blessings every day. I wanted out so badly and I didn't know what I wasn't doing right, why I couldn't stay sober for more than 6 months at a time. so I am incredibly happy that I chose this way and life is just getting better and better by the day. now, don't get me wrong..I do not think that the clinic is the best choice for everyone. no offense to anyone, but I think that heroin is such a popular thing these days and a lot of 18 year old are just starting experimenting with drugs and unfortunately this is the first thing they try..so they do it for a year or two and then want to quit. which is great, BUT a lot of them think they need to go to a clinic and that's they're only way out. but in reality, I personally think that they'd have a fair chance at just detoxing and going to NA meetings. so on the flip side, I think that people that have battled an opiate addiction for several years and have not been able to kick it on their own and have tried every other option out there..a clinic might be the next thing to try. it worked for me and I can honestly say that with the medication and more so the counseling, I feel deep down inside that I do not ever want to go back. and that's nothing I've felt all the times I've quit before. its not for everyone and I know that we all have our own opinions and that's great, but if I can share how successful my recovery has been on methadone and that it maybe will help someone with that uncertain feeling about what to do, then that is just great! we do recover if we choose it and there is a much better way of life. sometimes its a trial and error process to find it..|
|Posted by: lolleedee June 11, 2017, 11:43 PM|
|@Joey. I am so sorry to hear you are struggling! Addiction is a b**** and it absolutely sucks the life force right out of you!
I am not going to tell you what to do regarding methadone, but I do have a few things to say about it. First of all, when used correctly, meaning not using on top of your dose, getting into counseling, finding social support etc., methadone is the most effective treatment we have for opiate addiction. Every major medical association as well as WHO (world health organization) consider methadone an essential medication for the treatment of opioid addiction.
I hear lots of folks saying it is "trading one addiction for another" or "one drug for another", but being on a stable dose of methadone is completely different from active addiction! The people who usually shout the loudest about how evil methadone is are usually either of the mindset that the NA/AA abstinence model is the only way to recover (it's not) or they have been on a methadone program and failed miserably. You have to remember that methadone is just a tool for recovery. It allows your body and mind to stop screaming so that you can begin working on your core addiction issues. It is not a magic pill, but it has made recovery possible for so many people, myself included.
A little back story for your reading pleasure LOL......I started using opiates almost 20 years ago after a very serious accident. It progressed from pain management, to running out early, to buying on the street, ordering off the darkweb, phoning in fake prescriptions from my job, stealing meds from any and everyone then moving on to heroin to fill the gaps. I had a near fatal overdose about two years into my using. I woke up feeling like death (the Narcan will do that to you!). I had a tube in my throat and inhalation pneumonia from inhailing vomit in the ambulance. I was coughing up so much blood that they had to do a lavage of my lungs (they put you to sleep and rinse and suction all the crap out of them). I had quite a long hospital stay and I swore I would never use again. After I got home I began going to meeting in earnest! I did everythig that was suggested. I got a sponsor, did service and sometimes went to more than one meeting a day. I relapsed within a week!
Over the next 10-15 years I would go to detox or rehab to come out and use again. I tried Suboxone, but it did nothing for my cravings and it barely helped my withdrawal. Suboxone is great fo those with a smaller tolerance and a shorter using history, but I tried it three times and it didn't help me.
I was so tired of the cycle of using, withdrawal, hospitals, detoxes etc. I lost my family's support, lost basically my entire life. I do not know what made me finally try methadone, but the day I did was the day I started taking my life back and the only thing I regret is not starting sooner!
In the beginning, when you have to go every day, can be a bit much for people, but I looked at it as saving time! I would leave my house, drive to the clinic, get dosed, see my counselor and be back in my driveway in an hour. That sure beats waiting for the dopeman or other connect to come through, swearing to you they would be there in"ten minutes", but it really being hours! I would take my dose and then go about living my life and working on my recovery.
Every clinic is different but if you comply with the program by giving clean urines (except for the methadone, of course!lol), seeing your counselor, going to meetings (there are many alternatives to 12 step meetings. SMART recovery, Lifering, SOS, WFS etc are some examples. If you are religious, there are some churches that offer their own groups. Working on repairing your life becomes much easier when you aren't always fighting gut-wretching cravings. Methadone, at a proper dose will take the cravings away. You may have one occassionally sneak up on you, but it will be quick and fleeting!
You probably have heard people say that methadone is "liquid handcuffs". The people that I hear saying this are the ones that do not follow the program. They are the one's that two years later they are still going in every day to dose. I only have to go twice a month, and it takes all of about ten minutes. Ten minutes is a small price to pay for keeping my life together!
I think the reason you only hear horror stories about methadone is because those of us who use it the way it was meant to be used are busy living our lives. We become so removed from the using life and we just quietly go about the business of living! There will always be nay-sayers, but methadone is very effective when used correctly. It is no more intrusive than taking any other medication..especially when you have put in the time and work and no longer have to go to the clinic every day. I know some clinics even give once a month take-homes...that is even less intrusive!
Just remember that methadone is meant to be a long term treatment. That is why it is called "maintenance". The biggest mistake I see is people who get on the clinic for 6 months then start to taper off because they feel better and their lives are getting better! However, what they feel to realize is that the methadone is why they are having the success they are having!
My counselor recommends a minimum of three years on the program before tapering. She says the first year is all about getting your dose adjusted properly, learning to live without the daily hustle of active addiction and learning how to listen. The second year is the beginning of the hard work. Now that you are always on an even keel and you are craving free and never, ever dopesick, you can begin to address the issues that surround your addiction. Healing relationships, securing housing, finding employment etc. are all part of year two. Year three is learning to be responsible with your take home medication, starting new hobbies or interests, going back to school or otherwise fulfilling your dreams for your life. If, and only IF you have done all of this without a slip or relapse, then you could be ready to taper off.
Tapering can be done absolutely painlessly. It takes a long time, but the key is to go slow. Some people only go down one milligram every two weeks. The slower the better! If you taper too fast, you are setting up your body for withdrawal and it is completely not necessary.
If you choose methadone as one of your recovery tools, do not listen to anyone who says to keep your dose low because "what goes up must come down.". That is completely flawed logic. You need to be on a high enough dose so that you experience no withdrawal symptoms, no cravings and you reach the point of cross tolerance (what people call a "blocking dose") where doing other opiates becomes a moot point because you will not feel it anyway. If you aren't on a therapeutic dose, why bother? A higher dose will not mke your withdrawal harder or more intense..it will simply take longer.
You mentioned that you also have a problem with alcohol. Mixing methadone with alcohol can be deadly. Some clinics (including mine) are very strict about alcohol use. Many places will help you find a place to detox of the alcohol first. I know some people who started methadone and found that it took away their need to drink. Not that it happens to everyone, but I guess for some it is quieting the body and mind so that alcohol becomes less attractive. I am just basing this on anecdotal evidence I have seen from a few people. I am in no way implying that methadone is a treatmnt for alcoholism. Anyway, make sure if you do go the methadone route that you are honest about your alcohol use.
Sorry for this long post! There are tons of horror stories about methadone, but there are a ton of success stories too! Without methadone, I would be dead. No doubt about it..and if I wasn't dead, I would be on my way to dead shortly! I wish I could take back the years of the "getting clean, go to meetings, relapse anyway". I was hesitant to try methadoen because I bought into the abstinence only recovery model. I no longer believe that is the right path for everyone. We all need to find what works, and what doesn't work for us.
I have had some people ask me if I think I am "clean" on methadone. I no longer think of addiction as "dirty" or "clean". Those terms alone contribute to the stigma of opiate abuse! I consider myself in recovery from active addiction. I have said it before and I will say it again (the last time...I swear it! LOL) that addiction has very little to do with the substance and EVERYTHING to do with our thoughts, behaviors and the way we see the world. I could be abstinent from all drugs and still act like an active addict. All I know is today I have my life back and methadone helped me get there.
p.s. please ignore spelling errors etc. I am using my phone and it is way to small a screen to proof read all this,
|Posted by: mollyjean June 12, 2017, 12:06 AM|
|I had a long post written that's now in cyber space so I will just try & say it quicker.
I wanted to say Thank You ti the last poster...They said what I wanted to say eut I don't think I could of expressed it as well.
Anyways I have been on a steady dose of methodone for the past 5 years.In that time one of the best changes is I have a job & have been there for 1 full year so far,
I also attended "group"at the clinic 5 days a week for about my whole first year
Methodone is like any other very strong drug,It must be taken with care,with respect of the dangers there can be.It can be very elpful to those who don't abuse it
or just another drug.It all depends on the person taking it and their desiree to get clean...thank you
Hey NOW its 2018 and Ive been at my job for 2 years & have received 2 raises.Ive had a lot of stress in the past year,but who hasn't? My dose is still the same ,no increase needed,no decrease wanted.The ONLY things I take are,my antidepressant(the same for last 7 yrs)& I smoke weed.I don't drink and I am still feeling fine...Guess that's all I wanted to say
|Posted by: Joey June 12, 2017, 12:48 PM|
|Thanks for all your posts. Very Informative about if considering the three year minimum. It's a full program that I'd have to consider and if used properly if could get me on balanced life. I like how you said about the levels when starting and dosing. Very good information.
I could try to do this again and go through treatment but if I relapse I'm messed. Every time for 10 years. I'm so broken now. I'd like to think I could just walk into a meeting, find a higher power, and do the full abstinence free life. I like your perspective on how your life has been on methadone. I like seeing how you guys explained life on using methadone that helped balanced your jobs and life.
Still a really tough choice but imagine I'm back on this post in a year asking the same question.
Also in no way am I being negative, The two posts are showing your life on methadone and it's great. Though I'd like to see a post with all of what you guys said, the taper, and dropping methadone for after 4 years or whatever it takes.
I'm scared to be worrying about taking a medicine for life, but I have no life now. I have absolutely nothing. I'm going to detox tonight. Probably will see the doctor in the morning. I will tell you guys what happened or what decision I have made.
I like how you said it has to be used correctly, but what if I'm on methadone then start drinking and using other drugs. s*** show happening there. Then I'll be on the "don't do methadone list" A lot of food for thought. Thanks guys. Some many variables and unknowns. So I'll be thinking very thoughtfully about my decision whether I will try suboxone or methadone. Or try to give it another shot without. Such a hard choice. 5 years ago I'd laugh at the thought. This is 10 years of opiate abuse and I'm basically homeless. Well I am. Staying at a friends that doesn't trust me here by myself. So that's where I got myself. Anyway I consider all posts. Thanks.
|Posted by: Lvg June 12, 2017, 1:45 PM|
|Hey Joey, I agree starts with the desire to be clean.. I know all this is scary life is scary. So you have relapsed before learn from it. Move forward. Change is scary, but can be good scary. Don't think about 10 months down the road. Look at today and change it. Tell yourself you are stronger than the drugs. Praying for you Joey..You got this!!|
|Posted by: lolleedee June 12, 2017, 3:39 PM|
|@Joey. I know first hand what it is like to be where you are. I avoided methadone like the plague due to the negative things I heard about it. I always heard it called "liquid handcuff" and heard I would be "tied to methadone for life".
I have to say, that after being in recovery this long, I spend very little time at the clinic or thinking about methadone. I only go twice a month (our clinic is thinking about offering a month of take homes..if that happens I will spend even less time there!) Those visits take all of about 20 minutes...if it's crowded! Then every morning I take my methadone along with my handful of vitamins and go about my day. I rarely think about using anymore. My life has become so busy, I don't think I would have time to use! LOL.
I don't know how anyone can call going to a clinic twice a month "liquid hancuffs"! I spend way more time at the grocery store but I never say I have "food handcuffs!" It's ridiculous! I am able to travel, work, play and sleep. I no longer have to lie and scheme to get what I need. It is a relief to go to sleep at night and know that not only will I not wake up sick, but I also do not have to go out looking for stuff to keep me well. It really has given me a whole new life!
You mentioned you would like to hear from us in about four years to see if we are tapering. I have no clue if I will. At this point it is working so well, why would I stop taking the medication that has given me such freedom from active addiction. There are many medications people take long term for "maintenance" of a medical condition, of which addiction is. People take high blood pressure medication for hypertension, diabetics take insulin to regulate blood sugar, smokers use nicotine patches to help stop smoking etc, yet no one ever asks thm when they will stop taking their medication for their chronic illness!
According to NIDA (national institute of drug abuse) addiction is a CHRONIC, relapsing disease...why on earth would I want to stop taking medication that treats the symptoms of my addiction? I have to do other things besides medication, but so do those with other illnesses. Diabetics need to exercise and maintain a healthy weight, people with hypertension have to watch their salt intake and exercise....The medication is NOT a cure, merely a tool to treat the symptoms of the underlying disease. My disease is opiate addiction and methadone is one component of my treatment.
I understand the fear of stepping of the abyss and trying methadone. However, if you hate it, you can stop. No one is going to tie you down and make you stay! I have heard lots of people say they were discouraged from tapering because "clinics just want the money!" The fact is, if you (or I or anyone) leave the clinic there are a bunch of addicts ready and willing to take your place! Most of the time they tell you not to wean down when they see that you aren't stable on your dose, you are using on top and your life isn't stable. The clinics know this is meant to be a longer term treatment.
The three year plan I wrote about was just something my counselor recommends...it is not written in stone nor is it the opinion of every clinic out there. What her explaination did for me was to get on a comfortable dose (one where you are not having withdrawal symptoms or cravings and one where you are not sedated) and stop worrying about getting off! I had a life that needed to be put back together and that was my focus!
There may be a day when I feel like I need to come off of methadone, but for now it keeps my addiction symptoms at bay and makes my life better...why mess with success??
You can go get an evaluation at your local clinic. Go in and talk to a counselor and the clinic doctor. Tell them your concerns. Give them a completely honest history of your addiction. Listen to what they have to say, then make a decision. You are under no obligation to start the program but it never hurts to get some information.
You mentioned that you were afraid that you were going to go to detox and rehab and relapse again. I had a long history of the same pattern and it was clear that the abstinence based model of addiction treatment was not working for me. My only wish is that I did it ten years sooner so that my life wouldn't have fallen apart in such spectacular fashion!
I wish you good luck in whatever path of recovery you choose. You have been in a holding pattern of using, detox, rehab, meeting, relapse...maybe it is time to shake things up and try something different!
|Posted by: Lvg June 12, 2017, 10:31 PM|
|Wow, lolleedee, what a different take on methadone. I abused for 40 years,I coldturkey off methadone 7 1/2 months now. Regaining my sense of self and my Life. I can say I am free of any mind altering chemicals. From all that I have researched and lived, long term maintenance usually ends with inevitable death. Had I read your post before I ct I might not have quit cold turkey. I had the resources to stay home for whatever length of time it took. Everyone has different circumstances, I believe all options should be tried to quit drug of choice,with no avail than long acting opiates. Joey do what's best for you. Be well..|
|Posted by: lolleedee June 13, 2017, 12:45 AM|
|@Lvg..I am suprised to hear that you have heard that long term maintenance ends in inevitable death. Fourty plus years of scientific research (real scientific research..not ancedotal evidence gained in the line at the methadone clinic!) proves that methadone maintenance (when implemented correctly) saves lives and retains people in treatment.
I'm sorry that you had to go cold turkey! Methadone can be slowly withdrawn over time and can be done so slowly that withdrawal symptoms are not even part of the equation. This is my second time on methadone. I was prescribed it years ago after my accident for pain and was weaned off of 80 mg. a day and it was painless. It took forever, but it was painless!
I'm glad that you are doing better and coming out the other side! Everyone has to do what they think is best for their personal recovery and if that is a program of complete abstinence and that works for you, that is great! Keep it up! For the majority of opiate addicts, medication assisted treatment has better long term outcomes. I hope the day comes when MAT loses it's stigma. Until then we will continue to lose addicts at alarming rates..usually after a stint in an abstinence based rehab program, when many are released with monster cravings, then they use, then they overdose due to their lowered tolerance.
I am not against abstinence based solutions when they work and when it is the recovering addicts choice and not thrust upon them as the only path to recovery. I wish that MAT gains a stronger foothold and that people start to toss aside the stigma and listen to the actual science behind maintenance treatment. Methadone is one of the most studied medications and I hope that people can look past the old wives tales and look at the past 40 years of research.
I wish you all the best in your recovery! No matter which path of recovery one chooses, I think it is important for us to support each other! Thank you for sharing what you are going through!
|Posted by: Lvg June 13, 2017, 7:21 AM|
|Hello lolleedee, I meant nothing negative just Support for another Addict. My story was not through a clinic, from a doctor. I went from codeine to percs straight to methadone and diluads a day, massive Amounts. So I have not had the experience of running the streets, methadone never gave me that eurphoric feeling just kept me from being dopesick. I absolutely agree in tapering down. There are many success stories with subs, Robert325 subtaper plan if done correctly will be off opiates in 8 weeks. Through your posts I have a different aspect about maintenance. So thanks for sharing.. Joey where you at? What's your plan..|
|Posted by: Lvg June 13, 2017, 7:55 AM|
|So after thinking and trying to justify the use of one drug for another, I realised my addict brain way of thinking. Addiction is a Diease. We need to treat the Diease. We need either face to face support, counseling, as,na,not replace one drug for the other.|
|Posted by: lolleedee June 13, 2017, 9:25 PM|
|I absolutely respect your right to your opinion on how you think addiction should be treated and to follow that path.
Unfortunately, every major medical organization including, but not limited to the AMA, NIDA, SAMHSA, AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) etc. all consider addiction to be a disease.
Treating opiate addiction with a support group founded in the 1930's would not be tolerated for any other condition. If this "treatment" was proposed for anything else, people would be up in arms. Unfortunately, opiate addiction is greeting with stigma and some people continue to view it as a hedonistic behavior instead of a life altering illness.
More than fourty years of double-blind, longitudinal studies have been carried out on methadone and it's effectiveness is well documented. I know many people find recovery in the rooms, but many, many more continue to come in and out, relapse after relapse and then are told they "didn't work it hard enough."! In reality, these people needed a medical treatment for their biologically based illness.
It never ceases to amaze me when I hear people say methadone and buprenorphine is "trading one drug for another". If that were true, then you would see the same behavior around methadone that you see around opiates of abuse. That doesn't happen in a good treatment program. It becomes a medication that one takes every day to help with symptoms of an illness. People take lots of medication for illnesses, like diabetes. You would never deny medication to a type two diabetic even if they can reverse the disease by losing weight, exercising and following a diabetic diet! You give them medication as they learn to navigate the ups and downs of their disease...methadone is no different..it treats symptoms while you learn to deal with your addiction.
I know many people who shout about trading one drug for another, but doesn't blink an eye when someone trying to quit smoking uses a nicotine patch or nicotine gum. You are giving them the same medication they were "addicted" to so that the body and mind become calm enough to deal with the behavioral aspects of smoking. Methadone does the same thing.
I always encourage people to do what works for their recovery! I wish people in abstinence based programs were more open to the actual proven science behind these medications, but just as I choose one way, I cannot force others to see things the way I see them.
I hope one day this divide in the recovery community between the 12 steppers and the MAT'ers will stop and that we all realize that none of us have THE answer. If we had THE absolute answer, then there would be no more opiate addiction!!! Until that day hopefully comes, I hope we can all (including myself!) keep our hearts and minds open to others who chose a different path to recovery. After all, we are all more alike than different! Keep up the good fight out there!!!
|Posted by: Joey June 16, 2017, 12:01 PM|
|Well guys, here is my first update. I'm currently in treatment. If you read the previous posts. You know my history. With lots of questions and research, and the care of my doctor.
I'm on Suboxone. I'm on 4mg.
You are right. I can't keep thinking about the future. In all of your guys post. This is what I choose to do based on my previous history of abuse and minimal amounts of abstinence. Except the 1 year and 6 months.
I have to say it is working very well. I did tell my doctor I had a moral concern etc etc etc.
He said "listen I'm not a suboxone representive" 'do yourself a favor and at least give it a try.
So far I can't believe how I spent a year and a half of suffering sober.. yes sober.. I know this is not the fix to my problem. It is only a tool. I have multiple addictions. However, the relief of temptations, and fatigue etc etc. I can now focus on my recovery.
Other pro's are: helps my digestion because I'm lactose intolerant and other issues, helps my mood stabilize.
Why did I choose it? I really didn't want on methadone. Suboxone does not have to "high ceiling effect" other opiates have.
So.. So far so good. Please comment on my decision. Thanks guys.
|Posted by: Lvg June 16, 2017, 12:19 PM|
|Awesome, so Proud of You.. Be proud of yourself. Do you or are you planning to taper down. I know plenty of people who say that when they were in 2mg of subs they felt awesome..let me know what your plans going forward are... again sooo Proud of You.|
|Posted by: Joey June 16, 2017, 2:56 PM|
|I see the last few posts before me are the classic 12step movement vs the modern medical solutions. I do agree with the fact that aa/na does work for some people and possibly can work for everyone. I do agree there is stigma surrounding methadone/suboxone.
I choose this solution out of rational thinking. It would be irrational not to do this at this present time in my life. I do understand exactly what I'm getting into. I do understand this is an aid till I get strong enough to taper and eventually get to an abstinence free life.
This is my experience and we are all individual. I do understand there probably will be a difference in how I feel, withdrawal(even with a taper), and possibly cravings and temptations will come back.
The difference is to try and tackle that all now at this delicate time, would be irrational based on all my history. It's time for change. It's not ideal that I'm taking suboxone.
Though science and the knowledge of the working brain of an opiate addict show clearly that the brain has changed. Could I endure and prosper without... possibly.. am I willing to take that risk at this time. That answer is NO. There will be consequences later to this choice as I explained in this response. Though at that time I will have a solid base in recovery. I plan on maybe 2 years of suboxone. At the right time I will have a recovery in place. Most likely have built up my life.
All reasons to stick to the taper and endure some uncomfortable time as well heal my body and brain from this treatment. I'm prepared to take this on at the right time. I'm not prepared to do treatment then relapse. I know myself and I know I want recovery. In a perfect life I would just walk out, hit a meeting, find god or whatever etc etc.. though I'm not a spiritual person/or religious. I'm also not willing to hope I find this along my path in this treatment. I am who I am.
I feel great and I'm completely honest with my doctor. I even told him I did not need to move up to 6mg. I'm taking this with a recovering addicts thoughts/ not an active addicts thoughts.
It's nice to be in treatment, feel physically good, cheerful, and participate. Instead of feeling depressed, sick, fatigued. I know there is a lot of damage to repair. I'm glad I'm able to tackle it in a balanced mind frame.
I know it's takes along time for the brain to heal and it's biological repair that has to take place. I've done my research. I believe in taking all aspects in to play. There is a difference between regular emotions and chemical inbalanced emotions.
I did what is best for me at this time. Please continue to write comments and I'll be open and honest about how this is working for me, my thoughts, and updates. Thanks guys. You were a help in my decision to try suboxone.
|Posted by: Joey June 16, 2017, 2:59 PM|
|Thank you lolleedee for your responses. I like how you say we can come together and say we do not have all the answers. That's why science is the way I choose. It accepts something new. It's open to new ideas.|
|Posted by: JunkyDave June 16, 2017, 3:25 PM|
|I have spent 10+ years stone cold sober before and I have spent 10 years on methadone. For me sobriety feels much more organic and pure. And although methadone gave me a full time, dull like warmness or glow, it was soon dimmed and blurred for lack of opposing contrast.
A little sun is great but all sunshine makes a desert.
I do feel methadone helped me stabilize my world but had I been properly informed of the brutal withdrawals I would have surely passed...
|Posted by: Lvg June 16, 2017, 3:50 PM|
|I agree with Dave, Joey I feel in my opinion that sub was your best option.. Please read up on Roberts325 sub taper plan. Gaining knowledge will never hurt. Recovery begins and ends with you. Be strong my friend...|
|Posted by: Joey June 16, 2017, 3:59 PM|
|Thanks Lvg, and Dave. I'm surely going to read that Lvg and thank you very much.
I do reflect on my time with 1 year and 6 months and really it was an amazing time. I worked hard to get that and that was complete abstinence. It was good and it was hard. I'm definitely not looking for an easy way out. I work hard for my clean days/sobriety. I'm looking forward to the day I can get away from all replacements. I love the feeling of being completely free. Yes, I spiked a lot with depression during that time and I know it can take multiple years before your brain repairs itself to feel more balanced. I'm in for the long haul guys. This is a mere temporary part to the rest of my life. I'm going to make it. Thanks so much for all your insight. Your experience. It shows me all sides and I can best make decisions based on everything.
|Posted by: Joey June 16, 2017, 4:02 PM|
|Also congrats Dave on those many years of sobriety. Wow, it's really inspirational for me. I really want this so much.|
|Posted by: Joey June 16, 2017, 6:26 PM|
|Can you send me the roberts325 taper plan please.. Lvg. Just want to read it and see what it says. Get an idea of it. Thanks.|
|Posted by: Lvg June 16, 2017, 9:15 PM|
|Hello Joey, I really don't know how to send a link. If you search google for Roberts Suboxone plan. If done correctly, thousands have done it...|
|Posted by: Joey June 17, 2017, 1:25 PM|
|Perfect, I'll be checking that out for sure. Thanks for the advice.|
|Posted by: Lvg June 17, 2017, 3:15 PM|
|Stay Strong Joey..|
|Posted by: Lvg June 19, 2017, 5:01 AM|
|Hello Joey just doing a drive by to see how you are doing|
|Posted by: Joey August 27, 2017, 5:25 PM|
|Update, I've been on Suboxone for almost 2 and half months. And I have to say it changed my life completely. I'm very glad I went with my gut instinct to do this. It has been 20's times better than I thought. It changed my life and quality ten fold. I have no idea all these crazy stories but the medication makes me feel balanced and normal.. A general sense of well-being. I crave zero drugs and my alcohol desire is gone. I know my brain chemistry was changed and have been sober before with out it. My quality of being sober is so much better. I have two jobs, a beautiful and loving girlfriend, everything is the best is could be in such a short amount of time.. I'm not suffereing with tomenting thoughts of using. It's absoloutely the best thing i have ever done. It's too bad forums like these that i seek advice almost made me not try it. I may have pulled out being sober depressed and constantly craving and maybe even relapse. This is not a moral issue as I first thought, This is a fundamental position on biology. Do you guys think at this point I'm going to worry about a taper and coming off of this? I'm so grateful to have had this time I've had right now, It gave me peace in my life. and again I follow my doctors orders to the T. I don't abouse other drugs. So good luck everyone.|
|Posted by: Granny2 3 September 25, 2017, 8:00 PM|
I wish you all the luck!!!Don't give up!
|Posted by: lisa October 21, 2017, 10:53 AM|
|I*M~51 WENT ON,METHADONE,AT-19,SHORT,SOLUTION-6MONTHS-TOPS
STILL, BE-HOLDEN NOW...DOWN-TO.20MILL
COLD-TURKEY, BAD-BUT, I, WOULDNT, RECOMMEND-METHADONE....PERMANENT-LIVER-AGONY.
ABLE TO WORK.....BUT FEEL-POORLY.
|Posted by: loretta sterlin9 June 7, 2018, 5:09 PM|
|I've been on methadone for 8 years. And trying to get off is the worst nightmare of my life.If I knew it was such a nightmare I would NEVER have touched this life sucking poison.|