Need Advice!
Posted: June 3, 2017, 3:42 AM


Posts: 1
Joined: June 3, 2017



My son has been on some kind of drug since he was 17...he is now 34. His wife kicked him out and my husband and I let him come to live with us provided he worked and did not do drugs. Today I found products in a car we own but let him drive which I believe to be shake & bake. He has our family car and is away to pick up his son for a month and we decided to clean out the car we let him drive. The smell was horrible. I know I need to call the police but Im afraid. We touched everything and he apparently used the rubber gloves we found in the car. Do I need to speak to an attorney first? What Im afraid of is that he has used it in our home and if they search and find something they might confiscate our home and Im sure they'll take the car. That they might think its our fault because its our property....just so many things and Im so heartbroken over this. He will return day after tomorrow. I just don't know what to do.

Thank you for listening and please advise.
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Posted: June 3, 2017, 2:26 PM


Posts: 637
Joined: April 4, 2016



Loving welcome Scared . . . sending hugs as we all understand and experience the fear of addiction and our addicts.

Hmmm . . . whether you get caught up in any of his legal woes will depend on a lot. Not sure I can run through all the what-ifs . . . BUT . . .

There is no one-sized fits all answer to this question. It is so fact specific. For example, if you were in the car with him and y'all got pulled over and the cops have reason to search the car (more on that in a few) and the cops find something . . .generally everybody in the car will be charged with possession . . .unless someone says, "That's mine." Assuming they find something and he doesn't confess to ownership, both of you would probably be arrested & the car impounded. You can get the car out of the police lot by paying the tow fee and some other charges they add on. Impoundment is not the same thing as forfeiture!

On the other hand, if they searched the house and only found drugs in his room, and you say, "That's his room. He keeps the door locked. I have no idea what he is doing in there." it is doubtful that you, as the owner of the home, would be charged. . . or that their would be a forfeiture of your home.

Generally, forfeitures only come into play when the government wants to take back some of the gains of illegal activity. There generally has to be some connection between the property to be seized and, in this case, drug money. So, if, for example, he gave you the down payment for the mortgage and he got that money from drug sales, then your house would be at risk. As long as you didn't "gain" anything from his drug activity that you used to purchase stuff or pay for things, you should be ok. I wouldn't worry on this.

Now . . . y'know what to do if the police coming knocking on your door, right? First, ask if they have a search warrant. If so, this means the cops went to a judge and asked the judge's permission to search for something specific and in specific places. For example, a judge might issue a warrant to search only your son's room for evidence of drug manufacturing; this means that they can't start searching the kitchen or your bedroom. Or, the judge might give the police wider latitude and allow them to search the house. Their search, though, is supposed to be guided by what they are looking for. So, if they are looking for stolen 65" TVs, they should look in places where such a big TV could be kept . . .not the fridge or dishwasher. So, ask them what the warrant is for. . . what room(s) or area(s) and what they are looking for. They have to give you a copy but it is in legal-ese. You'll have time to read it bc the cops will make you sit in one place while they go searching . . .and they leave another cop to watch y'all and make sure you don't move. For your safety and theirs, you may be handcuffed while they search.

Without a search warrant (and barring other exigent circumstances) . . . the cops can't just come barging in your home and search. Not in America, at least. Without a warrant, they have to ask your permission, as the home owner, to search. You have every right in the world to say unequivocally, "No." You don't have to agree to have them search! (Say Thank You to the 4th Amendment.) OR . . .You can give your consent to only search his room. If you do not agree . . . ask them to leave the house, . . . then (although there are certain narrow exceptions), they've got to go. They will either go with their tail between their legs and never return . . .OR . . .they will return (who knows when) with a warrant.

As you can see, home searches are rather technical and have to be examined on a case-by-case basis. The easiest and cleanest course may be to put him and his drugs out!!! Why??? First, you set a boundary. No drugs in the house. He violated your rules. What consequences should he face now?? If you don't enforce this rules, he is going to think all the boundaries/rules are a joke and do what ever he feels. Second, I'd put his tail out if for no other reason that he may be putting me at risk of at least an arrest record and heavy attorneys fees to defend me. This isn't fair. Why should I put myself in harm's way for HIS addiction?

Car searches are a little bit different. All because you are the owner of the vehicle does not automatically mean that you are responsible for what he does with it. But again, this is a case-by-case, fact specific analysis. Rather than try to negotiate this law, again, I'd play it safe. Go get your car OR put it in his name.

I hope that I didn't confuse you . . . and you found this helpful. Your goal, I hope, is to protect YOU from his addiction. This is an opportune time to detach with love . . .and allow him to be an independent adult in every sense of the word.

Lynn
xoxo

This post has been edited by hurtingmom on June 3, 2017, 2:28 PM

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I forgot to read the fine print, when i signed up to be your Mom. I thought it would be smiles & hugs and quite a lot of fun.

I didn’t see the part about addiction, mental illness, pain, hopelessness or despair. I didn’t know life could be so flipping unfair.

But I now see something in the fine print that I didn’t see before. It also says to survive your addiction, I must love me more.


In Loving Memory of my angel, J. #forever21 #ihateaddiction #foreverloved
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Posted: June 3, 2017, 2:32 PM


Posts: 637
Joined: April 4, 2016



PS What's shake & bake??

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I forgot to read the fine print, when i signed up to be your Mom. I thought it would be smiles & hugs and quite a lot of fun.

I didn’t see the part about addiction, mental illness, pain, hopelessness or despair. I didn’t know life could be so flipping unfair.

But I now see something in the fine print that I didn’t see before. It also says to survive your addiction, I must love me more.


In Loving Memory of my angel, J. #forever21 #ihateaddiction #foreverloved
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Posted: June 3, 2017, 2:44 PM


Posts: 243
Joined: August 18, 2016



I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Addiction touches not only the addict, but everyone in the addict's life. You mentioned "shake and bake". I never heard that term up here in the North East USA, but a quick google search said it is another name for methamphetamine. So, the advice I'm going to offer is based on that.

You mentioned your son is 34 and his wife has kicked him out due to his drug use. I'm sure you had high hopes that he would keep up his end of the agreement you made with him that he could live with you if he worked and remained drug free. I'm sure it is a huge disappointment to learn that he is still in active addiction.

Before I pass along some advice, I want you to know that I am an addict in longer term recovery so I am looking at this from both sides of the fence. My first question to you is how is your son's behavior? Is he ever abusive to you or his son, wife or other people he loves? Is he ever erratic? Does he react in dangerous ways? Is he physically violent?

If the answer is "yes" to the above, then I would not confront any of this without law enforcement present for the safety of all involved. People who abuse methamphetamines can become violent and psychotic in the blink of an eye. Better to be safe than sorry!

If you are comfortable confronting your son with what you found and you do not believe it will escalate into violence, then here are a few suggestions.

First and most important do not do this in front of his son! You didn't mention how old his son is, but this is not somthing he should be involved in. It is never healthy or appropriate to have children involved in adult problems. I would either send him back to his Mom's or another trusting reltive or family friend until the resolution of this situation.

For the safety of your grandson, do NOT allow him to get in a car with his father! He is an active addict and if he is using he has no reason to be behind the wheel. For the safety of the child, he should not be alone with his father. It is never safe for an actively using parent to be alone with their child. I know he loves him and I'm sure he wouldn't dream of hurting him when sober, but the chemicals of methamphetamine has caused many to lose touch with reality and hurt or even kill loved ones. You need to keep him safe.

After you find a safe place for your grandson, sit your son down and simply say you found drugs, paraphrenalia and chemical precursors to methamphetamines in the car he was driving. I personally would throw out everything you found. It is illegal to have drugs and he is putting you in danger of arrest because he is breaking your rules. Tell him in no uncertain terms that he broke the deal and now has 24 hours (or a time you choose, but no more than a day or two) to leave your house. Make sure you have all the keys to the house, car and whatever others he may have. At this point he will say things like "they're not mine!" or "so and so must have left them in the car". Don't believe it...they are his! I'm sure he will try to convince you otherwise so he can continue to live comfortably under your roof.

Has your son ever been to rehab? Has he had any clean time in the past? It said in your post he has been ding this since his teen years. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about his addiction. You didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it! What you can do is put firm, healthy boundries in place! There are meetings such as Al-Anon or Nar-Anon, which are the family component of the groups Alcoholics anonymous and Narcotics anonymous. It will help you learn to stop enabling his addiction. I know that your intentions are good, but any time we do something for an addict they should be doing for themselves (such as providing a place to live to an able boddied adult, lending or giving cars, money etc). Enabling lets us continue our addiction comfortably while everyone around us takes care of our responsibilities. Stopping enabling behavior is hard...just as an addict is addicted to drugs, enablers become all consumed with the addict in their life. They are constantly checking their phone, calling to make sure they are ok, buying things they claim to need such as food, clothing and gas. It is time to step away from his addiction and let him be responsible for the consequences.

If, during any talks with your son you feel scared or if there are threats of violence, immediately call the police. After that you can file a restraining order so he can no longer come near you or your property.

That's all I'm going to write for now! I hope you will see this and update us on the situation. If you can give more detailed information maybe I can help a bit more.

Stay strong! We do recover, sometimes in spite of ourselves! However, recovery is something that happens gradually over time as we learn to navigate the world without drugs. It is a hard, painful process, but it can be done. Please get some help for yourself, learn all you can about addiction (please read the post called "let me fall all by myself" and the post "what not to do") Just type the title into the search bar. Sending good thoughts your way!
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Posted: June 3, 2017, 7:06 PM


Posts: 1698
Joined: June 27, 2016



You did one right thing - you set the boundary that he can live w you if he is not using drugs. I think you should tell him now - not when he brings his son home - that you found evidence of drug usage and he can not come back to your house. It is tough to have this conversation, but it will be worse when your grandson is in the house. Your grandson will be at your house for a month?
The only other thing you can tell your son is that he can not drive for the next month. so the choice is grandson not coming to visit and son is out of the house, or they both come back and son does not drive for a month and leaves your home when your grandson leaves.

It is hard to confront them. my son is back home (but staying at a gf house) has a job was clean for 4 months. we think he is using again. he is using our car. I need to have the same conversation w him - that he needs to put the car in his name and pay insurance. technically he is not insured on our policy. he should not be driving our car. of course he does not want to pay insurance - that would take away from his drug money. this is the round about way that we are buying/supplying his drug usage. even though I know this, it is a hard conversation to face. we have told him several times, he has not followed thru with getting insurance. so I have to keep pushing the topic, and then (of course) I am the meanie and stressing him out....

this is the fine line betw enabling for good or for worse. we do things to 'help' them succeed, but they do not use our help for good purposes. so we have to stop giving and helping.

we have to save ourselves.

This post has been edited by NyToFlorida on June 3, 2017, 7:10 PM
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Posted: June 3, 2017, 7:10 PM


Posts: 1698
Joined: June 27, 2016



just found this info on Smart Recovery for families:
http://www.smartrecovery.org/resour...rces/family.htm

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Posted: June 5, 2017, 9:10 AM


Posts: 384
Joined: October 25, 2016



I would not let your son drive any cars you own so his illegal activities don't somehow find their way back to you. He could be making drugs to use and not sell but you don't want to be in the middle of any of that. My son uses crystal meth so I don't know much about shake and bake but meth is bad stuff. You need to be very aware of your son's mental condition. Meth users can become irrational and uncontrollable quickly. There is no reasoning with them when they get this way. You should not hesitate to call the police. I would also be worried about him taking care of a minor child or driving him anywhere. Paranoia and reckless driving commonly occur with meth users. Don't let him leave with the child if you confront him and he becomes agitated. Explain the situation to the police and they will most likely make your son leave the child with you.

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BUGS
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Posted: June 5, 2017, 9:15 AM


Posts: 1698
Joined: June 27, 2016



..

This post has been edited by NyToFlorida on June 5, 2017, 3:07 PM
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