Jen
Posted: August 16, 2016, 10:47 AM


Posts: 635
Joined: April 4, 2016



I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks to all for the education, information and insights.

Con- I laughed so hard I almost pee'd. Thanks for the optic and the clarification. (I had to provide one to the Marines when they only took men.) I promise to use the correct pronoun from now on!!!

Love you guys,
Lynn

--------------------

I forgot to read the fine print, when i signed up to be your Mom. I thought it would be smiles & hugs and quite a lot of fun.

I didn’t see the part about addiction, mental illness, pain, hopelessness or despair. I didn’t know life could be so flipping unfair.

But I now see something in the fine print that I didn’t see before. It also says to survive your addiction, I must love me more.


In Loving Memory of my angel, J. #forever21 #ihateaddiction #foreverloved
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Posted: September 5, 2016, 3:01 AM


Posts: 2616
Joined: January 4, 2008



Jen...
I so had a Jen moment. ..I felt so damn deep down angry at a post I got myself deleted for the first time in all these years ...ok...her reply was also deleted and the original post modified somewhat now...it was me who told her to go to the FM board...mods moved it..thank God...I just couldn't separate the staying alive and clean from the whining. ..methadone is life and death...fck...we struggle every day with it...and sometimes I am also so frking angry at some of the s*** I read...I try to ignore it...I get everyone needs to vent and try to help as they see fit...and it doesn't usually bother me...but this week has been junkie hell...3 od deaths and. .I just went off...you want us clean and alive or addicted and dead....make up your fcking minds...you married us...you chose us...deal with it or leave. ..no...that's not what I said..and that's crap too...guess Im a little still on edge...I might have said something about crack and high performance though if that's what was so important. ..anyways...just wanted you to know. .I understand the anger sometimes...i get it...oh..i get it...I had a serious Jen moment. ..
..

This post has been edited by constantine on September 5, 2016, 3:10 AM
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Posted: September 5, 2016, 10:56 AM


Posts: 288
Joined: October 12, 2006



Con.....THANK YOU. As you know it means a lot to people when someone out there gets us! I missed the whole thing your talking about I guess...I do see that one of my posts was deleted. Thats ok because I realized we are here to help and support...not argue. Its maddening to see some people doing and saying the same damn s***....over and over ...and if you go back and look at old posts...you realize they have been LITERALLY doing it for YEARS....and EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS. We are all in DIFFERENT places...some are "healthier" than others ...I guess because some are older and wiser...been there done that...WORKING on trying to get healthy. I don't know. I do KNOW Im still learning. Its really hard for me to see people struggling with things...just NOT GETTING IT.....BECAUSE:


I have been and done most of what everyone else has and although I may not know what WORKS...I DO KNOW WHAT DOESNT!


I have WASTED SO MUCH PRECIOUS TIME doing the SAME damn things and it kills me to see people doing the same.

Im 50 years old and have been around the block once or twice...its NOT that Im SMARTER...Ive just got EXPERIENCE. Im at a point in my life where I CAN SEE....the patterns...the wasted energy...the sickness...in others as well as myself. Im tired and sad about the YEARS I've wasted...the people Ive hurt...my kids...oh my kids...

Im trying to come to terms with the fact that there are some people who just don't WANT TO see...they don't WANT help...they just want to continue living in the s*** and continue posting about it...an audience perhaps....AND IM WASTING MY PRECIOUS TIME trying to convince or point out the stuck behavior. I don't have all the answers and YES I'm f***in angry....BUT I'm working on it so thats something....Im done arguing with people because thats not what this is about...just took me a minute to figure that out...


--------------------

JEN

I have not been given a spirit of fear but of power,love and a sound mind.
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Posted: September 5, 2016, 2:07 PM


Posts: 2616
Joined: January 4, 2008



High 5 sister...;) I hear and feel you !!...unfortunately. .no one is ready...until their ready...sigh...myself included...

Con

This post has been edited by constantine on September 5, 2016, 2:17 PM
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Posted: September 5, 2016, 3:20 PM


Posts: 1905
Joined: October 23, 2011



I spent a lot of time THINKING about recovery -
I spent a lot of time TALKING about recovery -

But not until I began to DO what the oldtimers were doing did I start to recover.


I was the king of sitting on the fence.....
The old priest at the recovery home said: "Are you IN or are you OUT?"

I knew I had to get ALL IN or I would miss a lifesaving window of opportunity.

And we all know when we are getting our arses handed to us it's easier to surrender.
The trick is to stay surrendered on the good days - that takes discipline.
Those are the days I need my H.P. most.

All the best.

Bob

This post has been edited by Papa Bear on September 5, 2016, 3:21 PM

--------------------
Serenity Prayer
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.


Free copy of AA's Big Book on-line: http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/alcoh...olics-anonymous

Free copy of NA's Big Book on-line:
Copy & Paste coastalcarolinaarea.org/literature/books/b_t.pdf


AA's HOW IT WORKS:
Copy & paste www.aa.org/assets/en_US/p-10_howitworks.pdf


NA's HOW IT WORKS:
http://www.na.org/admin/include/spa...0it%20Works.pdf


----------------------------------------------------------------

--- driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity.

---there are those too who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

... I need AA more than it needs me.

--- I fight recovery tooth and nail....
I'm not used to being sane, it just doesn't seem natural.


...... According to the great spiritual teachers, ignorance does not result from what we don’t know; ignorance results from what we think we do know.

---Some think that 2+2=5 and believe it.
Some know that 2+2=4 and can't stand it.


--- I didn't have a very happy childhood
but I sure am having a long one !


---Dry since 1989
working daily on getting/staying SOBER.


---If you want to drink, that's your business
...If you want to quit, that's AA's business.


... Tell me, I'll forget;
... Show me, I'll remember;
... Engage me, I'll understand.


---Most problems are psychological.
Most solutions are spiritual .


"If we try to change our ego with the help of our ego, we only have a better-disguised ego."
--Richard Rohr


WWBWD (What Would Bill W. Do)
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Posted: September 5, 2016, 3:39 PM


Posts: 2616
Joined: January 4, 2008



Thanks PB...
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Posted: November 19, 2016, 11:11 AM


Posts: 2616
Joined: January 4, 2008



Jen...thanks...and I also feel the need to rant a moment ...just get so frustrated saying the same stuff over an over sometimes on the other board ...I've quit trying for the most part. ..some just do not want to listen...no matter what...and its sick and funny because I know that's exactly what they say about us...like...why can't we get it....it's like a fun mirror ....and I find it disheartening and as sad as they find us....thanks for listening. ..and thanks for being you Jen..😀
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Posted: November 19, 2016, 11:18 AM


Posts: 288
Joined: October 12, 2006



EAXCTLY! ALL of what you said! I have quit trying for the most part too. It gets old. I relapsed two weeks ago at 4 months and Im SICK of MYSELF! Im back on track...nothing changed...it still sucked. WHY do we continue trying to recreate a "perfect" high or mini vacation from reality or what ever the hell it is we do? Im still struggling with a LOT of health issues and the whole GOD thing and continue to work on my s*** but I get TIRED. Very tired. Just want to be normal...whatever the f*** that is.


--------------------

JEN

I have not been given a spirit of fear but of power,love and a sound mind.
    Top
Posted: November 19, 2016, 1:02 PM


Posts: 2616
Joined: January 4, 2008



Aww Jen...I'm sorry .. damn...4 months was awesome ...and your back on clean train....respect...I don't know either sometimes why we blow everything all the time. ..one of those speaker dudes I was listening to from N A the other day says it's about wanting to fail or some such thing...here's the link if you want a listen... https://youtu.be/0omIhWOiZFo
I get the despair. ..frustration ...the absolute anger sometimes at picking up...and fighting it every fcking day it seems...it's all that...and more even....Bonnie and MK ...and me...on the other thread...join us...pick a good song and lay it down ....we're all trying to stay clean....sending smiles and a hug...and you know I don't even do hugs...lol....
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Posted: November 21, 2016, 11:45 AM


Posts: 288
Joined: October 12, 2006



Thanks for the kind words...and the hug...ya anti hugger you! Im doing better. Just trying to navigate what works for me....AA fellowship is GREAT because are world become so SMALL when using. We have that close circle of other f*** ups that completely accepts us cause they are JUST LIKE US...they GET IT. Or you know we have like NO ONE and just sit in isolation. That being said I find issues with the steps...the spiritual GOD thing or whatever. Im finding online a LOT of people that feel the same . I mean they say it works...if you work it BUT in REALITY I have found that it DOES NOT for a lot of people! The statistics are NOT great. I am not willing to give up at this point because life using has for me become unbearable. Im still looking at the SMART program...and have gone to a few and really like it. Im not hugely into to music but Im going to go over and TRY to friggin post my new theme song....I may need to enlist my daughters help later....thank god these teenagers are sometimes useful as they can REALLY start to get on your nerves!!


--------------------

JEN

I have not been given a spirit of fear but of power,love and a sound mind.
    Top
Posted: November 21, 2016, 12:17 PM


Posts: 2616
Joined: January 4, 2008



LMAO....come on girl...I know you got some groove still in ya...I'm older than you even...though there are times when I have to ask the kids too....lol....

The God thing....ya....you an me both right now...and the honesty stuff...I'm seriously having to take time and think it all through...I suck at this....and its hard....doing one day...one hour sometimes. .

Wtg on the theme song...!!....

This post has been edited by constantine on November 21, 2016, 12:55 PM
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Posted: November 21, 2016, 3:17 PM


Posts: 2616
Joined: January 4, 2008



Sometimes my friend...my veins hurt ...my skin screams...and all I want in the world is to turn the want off...sometimes...I sit there and am so sick of...having to use...my head feels like It'll explode...sometimes it gets so cold...so dark...so black...that all I want is to lay my head down ...and never ever want or have to use again...sometimes I wonder if I 'll ever make it clean....sometimes I am so grateful for another addict who gets it...sometimes I just need to hear I'm not alone...

Con
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Posted: November 21, 2016, 4:31 PM


Posts: 1905
Joined: October 23, 2011



I have found that AA/NA works for everyone that works it.

Addicts/alcoholics don't like it because IT HURTS - IT WILL HURT..
That's why we have to hit bottom - when using/drinking hurts worse.

AA/NA is truly the last house on the block for us.

--------------------
Serenity Prayer
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.


Free copy of AA's Big Book on-line: http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/alcoh...olics-anonymous

Free copy of NA's Big Book on-line:
Copy & Paste coastalcarolinaarea.org/literature/books/b_t.pdf


AA's HOW IT WORKS:
Copy & paste www.aa.org/assets/en_US/p-10_howitworks.pdf


NA's HOW IT WORKS:
http://www.na.org/admin/include/spa...0it%20Works.pdf


----------------------------------------------------------------

--- driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity.

---there are those too who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

... I need AA more than it needs me.

--- I fight recovery tooth and nail....
I'm not used to being sane, it just doesn't seem natural.


...... According to the great spiritual teachers, ignorance does not result from what we don’t know; ignorance results from what we think we do know.

---Some think that 2+2=5 and believe it.
Some know that 2+2=4 and can't stand it.


--- I didn't have a very happy childhood
but I sure am having a long one !


---Dry since 1989
working daily on getting/staying SOBER.


---If you want to drink, that's your business
...If you want to quit, that's AA's business.


... Tell me, I'll forget;
... Show me, I'll remember;
... Engage me, I'll understand.


---Most problems are psychological.
Most solutions are spiritual .


"If we try to change our ego with the help of our ego, we only have a better-disguised ego."
--Richard Rohr


WWBWD (What Would Bill W. Do)
  Top
Posted: November 21, 2016, 5:40 PM


Posts: 243
Joined: August 18, 2016



I get what you are saying, Jen and Con! A lot of folks have problems with the God thing and have trouble with AA...and there are some very religious people who also have trouble with AA...While I truly respect Papa Bear and his recovery, which he found solidly through the 12 steps, not everyone does. I think it sucks that people who don't jive with the 12 steps are made to feel by some people in the rooms that it is their fault..instead of the fact that it just doesn't work for them.

The way I look at it is that as individuals, we are all different. Yes, we have common issues, but we are all different..we also all learn differently and recover differently.

I get very sad when people bash another's recovery..claiming their way is the ONLY way to sobriety...cause it just aint true!!!

What other disease in the world has a one size ffits all treatment?? NONE!!!! It seems obsurd when looking at it from this perspective! I mean, what diabetic who is able to control blood sugar with diet only, shames another diabetic from using oral medication or insulin? NONE!! Because, like with any disease (or condition if you don't like the disease concept) treatments are individual and what works for one doesn't always work for the other!

If you want to go a step further, it has been said in the rooms we have an allergy to alcohol/drugs. If we use this example the same thing applies. Some with allergies just have to avoid their allergen. Some need to use Benadryl every now and then and some need an epi-pen and strict diet adherence. Again, same conditions with different solutions!!

Just remember that there are options for recovery and every positive change is a successful step toward it. Trying to recovery using someone else's idea about recovery almost put me in the grave. I had to let go of some people who kept on insisting I follow the direction they had even though it clearly wasn't working for me. And boy, am I glad I did follow my own path.

No one is beyond help! Find what works for you and have at it!!! I KNOW you can do it!!!!

This post has been edited by lolleedee on November 21, 2016, 5:43 PM
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Posted: November 21, 2016, 9:19 PM


Posts: 2616
Joined: January 4, 2008



...no one is bashing anyone...if recovery were easy...we'd all be clean...doesn't matter what process you use...if you want to advocate smart recovery ...fine...if you want to advocate NA or AA ...fine....doesn't matter. ..you work it...or...you don't ....it's not a matter of which process is better....and discussion on what we find hard in the process we choose...is just that...discussion. ..

This post has been edited by constantine on November 21, 2016, 9:45 PM
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Posted: November 21, 2016, 10:32 PM


Posts: 971
Joined: May 14, 2015



Lolladee..i like everything you had to say. As far as bashing you may be speaking within this forum..outside of it..or maybe both. Within this forum i remember reading someone say (and no NOT pappa bear) 'the ones i see that are sucsessful are the ones that attend aa.' it was more in depth..wish i could remember..basically implying the PNLY way. My boyfriend has been in aa for years now..i hear some people say the same..some say 'its what works for ME' anyway think its awesome you have brought up smart recovery..a lot of people don't know of..and actually i DID see you get knocked in a way for that once..with the response of 'you know how many smart meetings are in my area? Do you know how many aa meetings are in mine?' (that is bashing and know who you are ;) ) it's DISCOURAGING to knock another route of recovery. Seen it here and outside .
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Posted: November 21, 2016, 11:07 PM


Posts: 243
Joined: August 18, 2016



@Con...wasn't bashing and actually wan't even referring to this board, but to what I have heard people say in the recovery community around me. One thing, as you get to know me, is that I am an advocate for ANY WAY THAT WORKS!!! If you told me you found recovery reciting the alphabet backwards while spinning in your dryer, I would be running down to my laundry room to try it out!

I said in another thread..can't remember which one, that I use a ton of different things for my recovery including methadone, smart recovery, women for sobriety, counseling. I also do attend another 12 step fellowship that I love...I just found that it didn't work for my drug addiction, though it was effective for my recovery from bulimia/anorexia.

I also think as addicts we are waaaay to hard on ourselves. I know for me, at one time, only perfect abstinence was what I considered successful..and I could never achieve it and almost lost my life because I refused to try something else. I had a very wise therapist tell me that if I had any other disease or illness, and was continuing to suffer, wouldn't I try other things or at least add some other dimensions to the regimen I was already using? I had to answer that with an emphatic YES...which lead me to MAT, then to all the other things I use.

I had to stop just counting perfect abstinence as the only success and my new mantra has become "any positive change!" You will probably hear me say it a lot! I think we should celebrate any positive change. Let's face it, this s*** is hard....let's not make it harder!

You guys are all fantastic! Keep on keepin' on!

This post has been edited by lolleedee on November 21, 2016, 11:10 PM
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Posted: November 22, 2016, 9:20 AM


Posts: 288
Joined: October 12, 2006



I agree Lolledee. It does feel like bashing when someone says AA, NA, ect WILL work if YOU work it. That says that the millions who don't get clean are still using because they didn't work HARD enough at it. I truly don't believe that. I think everyone has to find what works for them. Im a researcher....I joined an online thing....recovery 2.0 . There are SO many people on there that you really get a BETTER view of ALL the different options and what has worked for others . It is there I learned about SMART. I have more issues with AA than just the god piece but I won't go into them. Im just here to support and get support. I do think however that the unwritten rule of AA....dont talk about OTHER programs...AA is the ONLY way is dangerous. You would think that as a group who is supposed to want others to recover , other options could/ should be talked about openly...even encouraged. That sadly has not been my experience and its one of the BIGGEST things that bothers me.

--------------------

JEN

I have not been given a spirit of fear but of power,love and a sound mind.
    Top
Posted: November 23, 2016, 2:08 AM


Posts: 2616
Joined: January 4, 2008



So...I went and checked out Smart...hey...I'll look at anything that might work...but idk...not sure if it would work or be for me...im not that responsible....I can't set stuff up for myself and keep to it when it comes to using...little trouble between knowing and doing...im going to explore some more but ...my first reaction is...if I'm directing this...it's not going to work too well ...but thanks for the info....
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Posted: November 23, 2016, 6:10 AM


Posts: 529
Joined: October 15, 2016



Con I joined Smart yesterday , got the same name Bonnie 5 if you joining find me lol :) it takes time to get use to .. I like concept so far, it agrees with me in thinking I got problem with heroin but it doesnt need to be for the rest of my life, just cant think I am going to be addict till the end, not sure if I am making sense but its like with crack I was addicted big time , crack was first and last thing on my mind and then one day about not sure exactly but lets say 10 years ago i stopped , now I don't crave I don't think and I don't want it, been around people smoking and didn't do for me anything , didn't even cross my mind to have some so can you imagine me going to meetings for crack problem when I simply don't have that problem anymore? ... sometimes I think less you think about heroin less problem you have I wish to forget about it but its too early, still need more time to pass but must admit as days goes by I am less and less attracted to it. What I done to myself last time with abscess scared me big time and I really cant see myself injecting ever again. I think it must be over 1 month now how I am clean and I do feel once again excitement just doing simple things like going out for dinner or buying new pair of shoes. What I want really is to find reason why I am attracted to heroin on first place and reason why I kept using for so long and few more questions and once I know answer to those hopefully I can do something about it. I do feel positive how things are and I know you and other members here did help me especially when i first joined, I did learn some new tricks ... <3
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