Nootropics, Tianeptine
Posted: September 12, 2019, 5:26 PM


Posts: 12
Joined: September 12, 2019



32 year old son is a recovering abuser of opioids, benzos, coke, smoking heroin. He has been doing great for almost two years.

These past few months he has shown signs of substance abuse: anxiety, extreme anger, quick to anger, irrational, poor personal appearance and now two car accidents in two months.

I found the following in my son's home:

All purchased online from nootropic pharmacies:

Clonazolam, Flubromazolam and Tianeptine. I also found vegetable glycerin, glass bottles of nzl alcohol, empty glass bottles with caps and fake urine for a drug test.

He also ingests large amounts of Kratom powder everyday.

He also abuses alcohol. It started with bottles of wine, then boxed wine, with ever increasing amounts and now it's practically straight vodka and gin, very large amounts. By 9 p.m. he's stumbling around, ranting and raving, feeling sorry for himself and getting angrier and angrier.

He has a managerial, professional job, but is very close to losing it

Can anyone shed some light on this?
Thank you, I am so worried. And so sad.

This post has been edited by Mimi5622 on September 12, 2019, 5:41 PM
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Posted: September 12, 2019, 9:47 PM


Posts: 1585
Joined: June 27, 2016



Hello - Sorry to hear that your son has relapsed.

I don't know anything about the substances you found. I did find this information about Kratom:
ttps://www.therecoveryvillage.com/kratom-addiction/kratom-powder-effects/#gref
can be similar to opiate use in high doses and can be harmful and addicting.

You found more than enough evidence that he has relapsed. My best advice is that your son needs to be in recovery as soon as possible. How to get him to realize that and make the decisions he needs in order to go to detox …. idk?

Tonight I was thinking of my own son and in hindsight wishing we had been able to stop his relapse last September - a year ago. If we were able to stop his relapse in September, it would have avoided a 9 month nightmare of active addiction.

As you might be seeing, each relapse can be faster and worse than the last one.

Our fault (but not our fault) is that we thought he would come to his senses and be able to stop his behavior and go back to meetings, recovery meetings, etc.

When he is thinking clear enough, point out that he needs to reach out to (whatever program works for him) and to get back into recovery. Take vacation days for detox, etc.

he can take a medical leave of absence, but it might not be something he wants to do.

From the get-go - do not give him money or help with bill or transportation. Helping will only prolong the relapse by enabling him to have one more day, one more week, one more month.

It is so hard to do... to be a bystander and to try to steer them back on to the right path. We were not able to get our son back on track. we enabled too much to help him keep up the façade, to get to work, to have gas and food.

It is truly heartbreaking, all of our knowledge and money can not help them, we end up watching it all crumble in front of us. And our child still standing, asking 'What Happened?'

Maybe a quick swoop in with an intervention...?

When they are in active addiction they think others don't notice. They think their behavior is the same as being sober. They don't know that others see there is something wrong. The co workers may not know exactly what is going on, but surely they know something is not right. a person just cant hide it that well and for too long.

Here's a 'HUG' ! Your not alone! Keep reading here, read the old posts, you will see similar issues.


This post has been edited by NyToFlorida on September 12, 2019, 9:53 PM
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Posted: September 12, 2019, 11:12 PM


Posts: 335
Joined: November 16, 2017



Wow, that has to be devastating after a period of recovery. I am going through something kind of similar. I am not sure how bad it is at this point, but my son is definitely slipping back towards some type of drug (we never knew what and don't know now). His behavior is changing in the ways you pointed out. A little more aggressive, grouchy, unkempt. So frustrating and irritating to no end.

When my son first started this whole train wreck, we were shocked at what he could get in the mail as a minor. I talked to a cop that said they have trouble tracking down these online businesses because they move around and change the chemical compounds to try to avoid prosecution. Not really needed to be said I guess but they are very dangerous.

I wish I understood why they self-destruct. Even after kind of understanding the physiology of it, it is baffling to me. I will forever be mystified at his constant need to harm himself and seeming complete lack of insight and awareness about consequences-he's always surprised.

I guess I am saying I understand and we have all been through it on some level. The really hard thing is that there is nothing you can do, except as NY said, not offer financial help. Which is really hard as a parent, especially since he has a good job. In all honestly, I'd be tempted to run interference on the job, but it only makes things worse. None of my past "running interference" has amounted to more than a big, fat zero. It would be good if he took medical leave and went to treatment. But, of course, only he can decide that.

Is he ever coherent? Ever have a moment he might listen to you or someone in the program or a sober friend?
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Posted: September 13, 2019, 11:32 AM


Posts: 12
Joined: September 12, 2019



Thank you so much NytoFlorida for reaching out. And so sorry for your own son's relapse. I wish some sort of intervention would work, but not with him, never has. He denies everything and becomes emotionally abusive and says I am crazy. Then he starts with the crazy threats of restraining orders against me and so on. He also uses my love for my 6 year old granddaughter and denies me access to her. I have been down this road before with him. I confronted him recently and he has cut off contact. But of course that won't last. When things really get bad he will call. In one way, and I feel guilty feeling this, when he pushes me away it's somewhat of a relief. It releases me from the day-to-day drama.

He has never been part of any rehab program. He won't admit he has a problem. But the last go around he got a script for Suboxone from somewhere. That helped, but took two years for him to get to a functioning level when he could work and be a parent to his daughter. He has shared custody now and I worry constantly when my granddaughter is alone with him. At least he isn't driving around with her any longer. He has been driving with a suspended license and it finally caught up with him after two accidents and multiple citations. And guess who was insuring and registering his vehicle?

So, now all I can do is sit back and wait for his life to completely blow up again. And this time I will try as hard as I can not to enable him. And try to protect my granddaughter as much as I can from the wreckage.

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Posted: September 13, 2019, 12:00 PM


Posts: 12
Joined: September 12, 2019



Thank you Parenting2 for your support. I hope you can reach your own son before things spiral out of control. It's so hard to helplessly watch them as they wreck their lives. I wish some sort of interference would work with my son, but like you, any past interference has either backfired or had no effect. The only hope for him now is to take a medical leave of absence and detox and then get medical, science-based treatment. Meetings and the like won't work with him.

And to complicate things further, he has type 1 diabetes, and needs insurance coverage to cover his insulin, which is expensive even with insurance. He looks like hell, he has lost weight and his diabetes is frequently out of control.

Meanwhile, I am barely functioning day to day. I am just waiting for the next shoe to drop and getting that phone call. I realize there are many parents out there experiencing similar heartache and trauma. Some days I just wish I wasn't one of them.

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Posted: September 13, 2019, 12:16 PM


Posts: 335
Joined: November 16, 2017



Hi Mimi,

I've been there so many times. I know it is tough but we have to make ourselves detach one minute at a time. I have to force myself to go for a walk or watch a TV show sometimes when I start spiraling down because of his decline. Please take care of yourself and keep sharing here. This is not an easy road we walk.
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Posted: September 15, 2019, 10:05 PM


Posts: 478
Joined: November 9, 2018



Hi and welcome Mimi. I too am sorry to hear about your son's addiction. It's very hard as a parent to watch the spiral and the self destruction. I know this all too well unfortunately with my youngest daughter who is 26. It's very painful and heartbreaking. Addiction is an ugly monster and I hate it. I hate what it's done to my daughter and the helplessness I feel. I hope he realizes he's slipping and gets back to active recovery again. In the meantime, take really good care of you.
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Posted: September 16, 2019, 7:29 PM


Posts: 12
Joined: September 12, 2019



Thanks Sally. Sorry to hear about your daughter. Yes, addiction does suck. This is my second go around and I am definitely handling the situation differently this time. I am really trying not to be an enabler and learning to say no. But, that doesn't make me less sad or less depressed than before. I have no control over his addiction or his choices. I just feel so helpless and so guilty. I am his mother. I raised him. It must be my fault. Yup, everything just sucks right now.
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Posted: September 17, 2019, 1:35 AM


Posts: 122
Joined: December 30, 2018



Sorry to hear about your son, awful to think he had 2 years under his belt, then the merry go round starts again, I can't shed any light onto the things you found, there is lots of useful info on the web, I am in the situation that I have had to educate myself on this crap, it can consume you, it did with me for two years, his drug became my drug! I have learnt or managed the last year that it is his choices he makes, I cannot make them for him, my dreams for my son are probly not his dreams, I ask myself every day, why, you could have so much in life, but you have so little, is this going to be your life never progressing, never moving put( he is 25 ) he really is no bother at home, pays me board works and functions quite well,people probly would't even know he did drugs, ( maybe that's an under statement) he never hardly goes out, but I know he is struggling and he knows I know, so concquently I am past asking, I don't need to ask my gut tells me, look at it this way if your son has done it before I'm sure he can do it again, take care of yourself
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Posted: September 17, 2019, 12:21 PM


Posts: 20
Joined: June 13, 2018



Hi Mimi,

I am so sorry you are going through this too. I pray for you and your family.
I also understand your guilt

I am his mother. I raised him. It must be my fault. Yup, everything just sucks right now.

Believe me I so get that. I tore myself up with the guilt.

Can I tell you something I learned in treatment. My son is a Meth Addict. He has been clean for a little while (not getting into detail because it seems like every time I do **it hits the fan), anyway while he was in one of his treatments, there was family day. My husband and I attended a session meant to help the families.
The instructor opened the class by asking all of us if anyone of us felt guilty about our loved ones addition. I was the first one to raise my hand. I was asked why I felt guilt, I explained that I was very hard on my boy. He was/is very smart and I pushed him in school. I MADE him take all the honor classes he could. He took all the math that he could... ETC Never let him get away with anything. When I found out he skipped school I called them up. I was super strict with everything.
Anyway, when I was done the mom sitting next to me (who had a son two years older than mine and also a Meth addict) turned to me and said I feel just as guilty, but I was the opposite. I never pushed my son, never had rules she was a single mom and felt guilty about that so went real easy on him. We both blamed ourselves for no reason.

Funny these two boys raised in two completely different situations and they both were struggling with addiction to the SAME drug.
The instructor was pleased his job that day was so easy that day.
Some kids are raised in horrible circumstances and NEVER ever make a choice to use.

Because of this, I have been able to get rid of the guilt. It isn't good for anyone. I hope you can do the same.

This isn't your fault. You did nothing to make him to chose to use this drug. He has the disease of addiction which you didn't cause.

My son told us that day, that none of this was our fault, and I agree. He told one of his employers that he came from a good family (made me cry).

I hope that I helped take away some of the guilt. I hope you can see how really it isn't your fault.

I hate the worry, its so hard getting over that. I do worry more than I should. I am working on this now.

It does suck.

I am sorry,

Kim
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Posted: September 17, 2019, 2:30 PM


Posts: 335
Joined: November 16, 2017



Great story, Kim! Excellent way to explain it. I raised all my kids the same and he is the only one with issues. It really truly is not parenting. A mix of things.

In treatment, they gave my son a chance to list everything he felt I did wrong or was mad at me. I thought oh boy, here we go. When he was clean, well fed, getting sleep...he said, "Nothing, she's a great Mom".

We really did not do anything wrong.
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Posted: September 17, 2019, 2:49 PM


Posts: 12
Joined: September 12, 2019



Thank you for responding Kim and sadeyes. Last time around I felt mostly anger and the determination to help him overcome his addiction, no matter what. I cried a lot, got sick from all the stress (came down with shingles that affected my eyesight). And slowly, but surely he got better. And actually, he has been sober and doing well for three years, not two. Steadily progressing and getting promoted in his career.

Something happened these past few months to trigger him. Who knows what. His job is stressful and he hasn't dealt well with his ongoing divorce. These are life experiences most people encounter and are able to deal with without abusing drugs, but I guess was just too much for him.

Therapy could have helped, but he refuses. He went once and when he was refused drugs, he wouldn't go back.

He is so stubborn. I can't reason with him, even on a good day. I can't change him. So, this time around I am protecting myself and my granddaughter as much as I can.

He called twice this past weekend, late at night, ranting and raving at me. I hung up both times. Told him in text I will no longer put up with his abuse and threats and going forward I will only communicate with him via email. I felt better. I felt liberated from his abuse. It doesn't change the fact that he is an active addict and about to crash and burn. But at least, I can have some day to day peace, for now that is.
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Posted: September 17, 2019, 3:12 PM


Posts: 12
Joined: September 12, 2019



I still feel tremendous guilt though. I got divorced when he was three years old, and his father never made things any easier. His father died a few years ago of complications from his diabetes. He abused alcohol and didn't control his diabetes, but somehow, still functioned in his law practice.

I know my son misses his father. They became close as my son became a young adult. Families are complicated. I wasn't able to provide my son with a Brady Bunch childhood. I did the very best I could, always.

Anyways, I guess I needed to rant a bit. This has been helpful.
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Posted: September 17, 2019, 4:30 PM


Posts: 122
Joined: December 30, 2018



That is so true and good advice what noodle said, I was very easy on all my boys, I use to think they did't need two shouting at them there farther was the one to do that, never agreed with his discipline area with the boys in fact I hated it, so I was always the soft fall there, any way they where all 3 raised the same, and the youngest has ended up with the addiction, I have learnt and it's taken a long time, for me to work it out, his choices are his, my dreams for my son are not what he dreams, I just hope he works ot all out, I wish all of us on this site could talk about are child's achievements,
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Posted: September 19, 2019, 12:02 AM


Posts: 5751
Joined: November 6, 2005



Mimi,

Please know I am so sorry for your pain. As a recovering addict I can tell you that part of the awful addiction process is us laying guilt on you. It's misplaced and plain c*ap.

Alot of people come from divorce in a family. Many have an addicted parent that doesn't make it easy and so many of us have lost a parent we are close to. However it's not a license to use and put a mother through he*l.

You did great with the text. Please, please know it's not your fault. You may feel guilt, but honestly shouldn't.

There's still hope. Please take care of yourself, and of course your little grandaughter. Prayers going up for your family.
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Posted: October 27, 2019, 12:04 AM


Posts: 12
Joined: September 12, 2019



Happy update: My son entered rehab yesterday. I posted the good news in a separate post. I know he has a long road ahead, but finally he has faced his addiction.
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Posted: October 27, 2019, 8:50 AM


Posts: 478
Joined: November 9, 2018



Mimi so happy your son put himself in treatment. This is a big step he took and he did it on his own which is very positive. Thank you for updating us and I hope you are doing well, Sallyanna

This post has been edited by Sallyanna on October 27, 2019, 8:50 AM
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Posted: October 27, 2019, 9:28 AM


Posts: 1585
Joined: June 27, 2016



Hi Mimi - I re-read some of your post. Regarding vehicle and insurance. We all get stuck in this trap to some extent at some point. It sounds like you are out of the woods now. Not insuring a vehicle for him. Its good to have that off your plate. be sure you never go back to it. We finally got our son off ours and he has no vehicle since he wrecked the last one. He has a dui and suspended license. We have told him our insurance company will not allow him on our insurance due to accidents. We will stay firm on that. He is looking for a halfway house that is close to public transportation. The treatment center is helping with this and with counseling.

This post has been edited by NyToFlorida on October 27, 2019, 9:29 AM
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Posted: October 27, 2019, 1:00 PM


Posts: 12
Joined: September 12, 2019



Hi NytoFlorida , Yes after two accidents in two months, I had no choice but to put my foot down. It's a relief not to have to feel guilted into taking the responsibility for his cars. It sounds like your son is waking up to the reality of consequences. He is still so young. He still has a chance. I am glad you and your husband are finally getting some peace and quiet.
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Posted: October 27, 2019, 8:47 PM


Posts: 209
Joined: December 23, 2018



Mimi!! What a great update! My beautiful, smart, handsome, charming son is also a meth addict. He was clean for about a year & a half after getting into an accident at work & he was either going to be fired or enter rehab. 90 day rehab & he was going great. At work he was back to work but had to sign a contract to submit to random drug tests. Something happened, we don't know what caused the relapse but something did & he thought he was hiding it from everyone & then he failed a random drug test & was terminated from an excellent job after 12 years of employment. For the next year & a half we endured a living hell. But he's clean now & attending meetings & working. But I hold my breath daily & especially when the phone rings!!

Best of luck to your son & your family!!! Because he made the decision himself, that sounds very encouraging!
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