Mntmom
Posted: April 21, 2019, 7:38 PM


Posts: 378
Joined: November 9, 2018



Mntmom thinking of you I hope you are okay
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Posted: April 23, 2019, 8:31 AM


Posts: 166
Joined: December 23, 2018



Hi Sallyanna, we have had the worst 2 weeks so far. But we are ok (I was on vacation with no internet!) About 3 weeks ago, my son's ex gf contacted me, she was scared & didn't know where to turn & we talked for a long time. Come to find out, GF moved out of her own house because of my sons aggressive & unpredictable behaviors & now my son wouldn't leave. GF had to go to court to get a restraining order & move out order. Before the court hearing, my son was BLOWING UP EVERYONE'S PHONES with no stop texts, calls & voicemails. When one of us wouldn't give him money, he'd screaming & cursing at us. He changed phone number 4 times when we blocked him.

FINALLY, GF was granted the order & family members moved his stuff into storage & son BLEW HIS TOP!!! Cussed out every family member & swore he'd never forgive us (for doing what the court ordered). but within minutes of THAT tirade, a Recovery Center person contacted us & said our son asked her to reach out. I told her everything he was doing & that we are done, just because he is our son doesn't mean he gets to abuse us & this is not how a loved one is treated & this is definitely not how someone should treat their 60+ y/o parents. But, of course, that treatment contact was just another ploy to try to get us to think he's trying to get help. My son fakes the alligator tears & hysterics to manipulate us & other family members to "help" him. And apparently he doesn't realize that all of us, including a cousin's family that he also scammed into helping, are all communicating so he can't lie. He's already violated the restraining order & was arrested for a few hours & then released, he's STILL texting ex wanting to meet her at her house without the police. For some demented reason, he threw a dead fish in my youngest son's front yard.

Long story longer: RIGHT NOW he's not speaking to us, but we are seriously done. Next time he contacts us we will tell him to take the consequences of the decisions HE has made... I always worry that my husband will be strong enough to stick with that bottom line, my son knows exactly what to say to hurt my husband
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Posted: April 23, 2019, 9:00 AM


Posts: 371
Joined: October 25, 2016



So sorry Mtnmom. Sounds to me like he is still using Meth. Been through this same type thing with my son stalking his girlfriends and generally out of control. I don’t know how they act on steroids. They make it impossible to help them or be around them at all. The stories they tell in order to get money are pretty unbelievable. Doesn’t seem like one person can have so many bad things happen to them in such a short time. They impload. Kaboom ... pieces in all directions and like Humpty Dumpty we can’t put them back together. The threats, hostility and abuse are hard to take. What they say and do is often very hurtful. They know their families too well. I am scared (actual fear) my son will show up at our door unannounced at any time wanting us to deal with his newest crisis or wanting to live with us. We moved and cut him off totally almost 2 years ago except for the occasional email. I wish he was here for holidays, birthdays and family gatherings especially. I get sad sometimes. Feel guilty all the time. Miss him but had to leave the drama behind. I think we are entitled to a little peace later in life. Life is too short. Opting out isn’t easy to do.

This post has been edited by BugginMe on April 23, 2019, 9:05 AM

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BUGS
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Posted: April 23, 2019, 2:47 PM


Posts: 166
Joined: December 23, 2018



Absolutely!! Today he started texting, calling & leaving voice mails - we will not respond. he's only checking to see if he can create a crack in our armor, once we show weakness & he will attack. He's done this to us many times in the past few months. But whenever someone offers help, rehab contacts, food, anything but money, he explodes.
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Posted: April 23, 2019, 5:53 PM


Posts: 276
Joined: November 16, 2017



I am so sorry you are going through this. We went through this about two years ago. It was absolute horror. His drug, at the time, was Spice. And, some adderall, I guess. I believe the spice is what made him crazy. I remember finding an empty packet that had a demon on it in his closet.

You should NOT have to experience this, and neither should his girlfriend. I am SO sorry you and the rest of us out there have to know what this is like.

When they are this bad, your protection comes first. Do whatever you can to get safe and remove yourself. Believe me, I know the despair. I am remembering it just reading your words. Keep posting. You need a lot of support!!!
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Posted: April 23, 2019, 7:25 PM


Posts: 166
Joined: December 23, 2018



Both hubby & I received texts, voicemails & calls this morning asking us to please call him. We didn't, then a sad text about how HE has lost everything but never even a slight apology or any remorse or acceptance that every single thing that has happened to him was a result of choices he made. So we got another sad text about "now that I'm at my lowest, everyone deserts ME??" He's actually appalled that WE are tired of his lies & tirades & abuse. Dad answered & said we have nothing to say, if he ever wants to mend our relationship, he needs rehab & sober living. Until then, we have nothing to say... well, that just kept him coming back with how shocked he is about how we are treating him, etc. Finally hubby blocked his number. I haven't yet, but I will if he starts harassing me.
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Posted: April 23, 2019, 8:28 PM


Posts: 378
Joined: November 9, 2018



Hi Mntmom sorry too you have been going through so much from your son. You are wise not to let him abuse you anymore and I understand why you are done. They are so relentless. If they put a fraction of the energy they use to be this way into treatment and sobriety they'd be on a positive path.
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Posted: April 23, 2019, 10:05 PM


Posts: 371
Joined: October 25, 2016



Not right but they see a text response as an opening to convince you they need help. It opens the conversation. It is sad when they loose everything but how can we fix it. We can feed them money until we have none but some things are not fixable with money.

I had forgotten about the bad affects of Spice. It is terrible stuff and can be bought cheap almost anywhere. They think it is ok because they can still pass a drug test. Makes them crazy.

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BUGS
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Posted: April 24, 2019, 10:42 AM


Posts: 1494
Joined: June 27, 2016



He is pressing the buttons to see which ones still work.


every interaction we give them keeps it going another day. transportation keeps them going longer. they drive others around and have transportation to do favors for others. we kicked out our son at 1st of March. Mid April he finally got to hospital. If he still had car he would have been going to work and still on his addiction path.

he wrecked the car at end of March. 'Normal' would think that a person living on their own would value the car knowing it was their only way to get to work and paycheck. we will never know what happened. he hit a pole on his lunch hour. the road he was on is very windey. maybe going to fast and looking at phone. (normal would be - don't look at phone while driving) the car was half way to junk yard. was only a temp vehicle. had steering problems. 'normal' would have been to save $$ and have car repaired over the six months he was driving it. and dad putting tires on it and a few other repairs. Nope - repairing car, putting in his name, paying insurance, was not a priority for him. (but cost dad about $3000 for car and repairs)

sorry for the Rant! … my point is - even when down to nothing, my son did not make better choices and it still took nearly 2 months to get him to hospital with dad's help to drive him there.


vehicle and phone are their two main priorities. without that they do not survive long.
(how do you stop an addict - take away the phone and car)

this is where we should have stopped enabling 6-8 years ago. so he would have learned on his own. our fault - giving our kids more than we had at that age. (just my personal experience)











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Posted: April 24, 2019, 2:34 PM


Posts: 166
Joined: December 23, 2018



I'm sad & sorry that we've all been done this road & many of us are still on it. I feel like it never goes away.... Thanks for the thoughts & the ability to vent here with other parents who TRULY understand.

His dad blocked his number last night so this a.m. he started texting, calling & leaving voicemails on my phone. I did not respond. The voicemails were angry & he was accusing ME of stopping his progress towards rehab, even though when several people have given him names & numbers of no-cost places, he said he doesn't need rehab. Swears he is sober & accuses us of not believing him (why should we? everything he says is a lie!) 13 calls/texts/vm's in 10 minutes. I finally answered with "YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE NAMES & NUMBERS OF SEVERAL NO-COST/LOW COST REHABS & SOBER LIVING PLACES. YOU CHOSE TO NOT ACCEPT THEM. WE ARE NOT PAYING FOR YOUR REHAB. SO YOU CAN STOP WITH THE PHONE CALLS & MESSAGES BECAUSE THERE IS NO FINANCIAL RELIEF ON THIS END". He replies (still arguing) "try to find one yourself, oh wait - you're too busy, that's right cuz everything is free, right? Whatever! I've tried but go ahead, continue to be what you are.... No help, clean hands, easy route...

I didn't respond & within minutes I get a call from Balboa Horizons - a PRIVATE rehab!!! Guess who wanted to see if I wanted to help my son. I told them in no uncertain terms I will not spend another penny on him with his lies, manipulation & abuse. The way he has talked to his family & things he has done are horrific.... I think this guy just wanted to get off the phone when I was done!! ;)
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Posted: April 24, 2019, 4:39 PM


Posts: 1494
Joined: June 27, 2016



OMG it is awful for you. so sorry. your son really is relentless. it is amazing how they are sometimes able to twist the situation so it is back in your lap - getting phone calls from rehabs....


PS.. I my previous post I may have made generalizations that do not fit everyone. Apologies where needed.

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Posted: April 24, 2019, 6:42 PM


Posts: 166
Joined: December 23, 2018



I don't think any of us here need to apologize for anything we say HERE - this is a safe zone, in my opinion. Some things apply to all of us, some things apply to a few of us. We are all just trying to get thru this.

My son can't even pretend to be nice now - he just starts out with both barrels blazing & then gets mad when we say enough.
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Posted: April 24, 2019, 8:12 PM


Posts: 23
Joined: March 20, 2018



Hello Mtnmom,

I'm glad you're ok and so sorry to hear your son is being so cruel and manipulative. So heartbreaking when our own flesh and blood can be this way.

Stay strong. I know it's hard.


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Posted: April 24, 2019, 8:49 PM


Posts: 371
Joined: October 25, 2016



I don’t think it is easy to get into free rehabs. There are limited beds and people wait for them to open up. It isn’t an ideal system. I don’t know if there are any shortcuts. Maybe from hospital detox directly to rehab? If no insurance or person to pay, I think they have to be approved for Medicaid first. When an addict decides they want to go to rehab they really need to go right away. That may be why your son is so desperate. They do use the possibility of rehab to manipulate people though. They also use guilt ... like he could get a job if ... What he is telling you might be true but most likely it is some kind of story. They don’t akways know the truth themselves. Can’t keep paying for stuff forever even if they need the help. They think our funds and good will are endless. My son is so disappointed because he believes unconditional love means we will allow ourselves to be walked on our whole lives. I read what others say and am always surprised at how alike our addicts are. They say and do almost identical things. It’s amazing and sad at the same time.

NY - I have taken my son to the hospital and allowed them to release him to me too many times. I started refusing and quit taking him myself because his actions were so unpredictable it became dangerous to be alone in a car with him.

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BUGS
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Posted: April 24, 2019, 10:06 PM


Posts: 276
Joined: November 16, 2017



Bugginme, I have thought the same. Whenever someone posts direct quotes, I am like, "OMG, that is my son talking (at least when he is on drugs)". Maybe the desperation causes them to go crazy with manipulation.

I did stop giving my son money. It was HARD and he made me miserable for awhile. I think it partly worked because he found a job and he is not using Spice or Adderal (for quite awhile now). He has a beater car and is paying his own insurance. I do pay for this counselor that seems to be really helping him. She is very tough and does not put up with any crap. I think it helps him to have this outside person. On top of that, he agreed to go at a time when he had hit a bottom of sorts.

He still is relentless when he wants something (he has been like this since he was born, to be honest). He will tell me that because he doesn't have phone service/I won't pay for his phone service.....(insert a multitude of horror situations). He will just bombard me with intense conversation about how he may be hurt or need me and have no way of reaching me. When this won't work, he moves to how selfish I am that I won't help my own child. Or, if I don't pay for his gas, his car will break down and lose his job.

The thing is that these things used to work on me. When I was actively running amok in the insanity, he COULD manipulate me.

Nothing is perfect and this situation is not ideal, believe me. But, things DID change for the better, when I looked him in the eye, really meant it, and told him, "I owe you nothing. I work hard for my money." I had to get tough and not let him see any weakness. This is a dangerous moment too, when they know you are serious and they are still using.

Of course, you know, I am not that tough and I sometimes cry myself to sleep. But, overall, I have drawn that line in the sand. If you show them emotion, they just use it against you. I try to be very objective, non-confrontational, and say as little as possible. But, make sure he knows he is a grown-up and on his own.

The tough part is that if he started using spice again, we would be in a hot mess, because you almost always have to call the police and it creates this crazy situation (like you & his girlfriend are unfortunately experiencing!) No lie, it blew my mind when he first came home acting out on Spice (I am sure it is similar to meth). I was kind of in stupor because ..!! It seems like it is not reality!! His behavior left everyone totally speechless (mouths open). I literally felt like running into traffic out of desperation. I would be in a store and not want to leave because I felt safe around all the people. Luckily, we have not had that for well over a year. I feel horrible that others are still going through this.

What is the solution for this? They almost need involuntary, emergency crises centers for these kids so out of it on drugs. Like jail but with a rehab focus. More needs to be done to get them to a safe, locked area and more support for parents/family.

Anyway, I DO so feel for people still in this situation. Beyond insanity. And, it is dangerous-don't minimize the danger when they are out of their minds on drugs. You have to take care of yourself. When we were going though this, I started going to the local abuse prevention shelter for classes and counseling. And, I had a plan and carried mace (crazy, isn't it?).

My son is doing better and he has no memory of his behavior on spice. The whole thing is just SAD. He still struggles so with his anxiety and constant thinking. I know he turned to drugs to stop all that and then drugs gets in the drivers seat.

I am just staying in the moment and trying to stay detached and let him work out his issues and his life. A year ago I would be hopeful but I realize things can go up and down and he may have more stuff he will go through. I cannot believe he is the same person.

It is really sad and scary. I feel for those of you dealing with these breaks with reality/drug frenzies. : ( I am having flashbacks of all our crazy times. Stay safe, reach out for support, and do your best to find moments to detach, walk, hike, get a hotel room.
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Posted: April 25, 2019, 7:25 PM


Posts: 1494
Joined: June 27, 2016



Parenting - thank you for the post. Many excellent points!

I'm proud of your strength - to not give money when your son badgers you with reasons . Extremely difficult when face to face with him. I am not that strong. I think your son is much more relentless than mine, and had been more violent, demanding at times.

I have had those thoughts when out of the house, that I didn't want to go back. Once I was in a large restroom in the Mall. I thought "It is so peaceful here. I wish I could live here" LOL Crazy!
It shows how much addiction rocks our sanity.

Very important point - us family members seeking out counceling. It did help me too. I didn't think to go to abuse prevention counceling. it does make sense. Councelling did help me navigate the addiction map better than the years of dealing with it on my own. I learned about community services that are available and had people I could go to in a crisis.

I'm so glad you got through it. and you can see the progress.

It is so hard to see how it will play out when a family is living in it. trying to make the right decisions to keep everything OK for 'today' but not making progress in the long term. we all have to walk thru it and get to the same conclusions in our own time. Its so strange how we can read, learn, listen to the truth, but so hard to execute 100%... after our latest round, I can see that it only works when we are able to put "No Enabling" in place 100%..

This post has been edited by NyToFlorida on April 25, 2019, 7:45 PM
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Posted: April 25, 2019, 7:59 PM


Posts: 166
Joined: December 23, 2018



Yesterday, I received a call from a rehab counselor asking if the family would be willing to help him get the help he's trying to get (i.e. pay for private rehab), later he (son) told me that I was preventing him from getting help. (I still wouldn't answer his calls)

In the evening he sent me this: "Nope not one but three jobs today count them three jobs. Inspite of this piece of s*** family stepping all over me as I got sober. I got three jobs today and no thanks whatsoever to any of my family for their help . I did it nobody helped me and all on my own. I told you I will remember the way I was treated at my lowest point in life. Well guess what now the avoid train has left the station and it’s my turn to drive it"

No calls after that email. Tonight son's friend (good friend, not druggie friend) called to say son called SAYS he's in jail. Friend doesn't know what to believe because he knows my son is a mess. My hope is they keep him in jail. He says it's on 3 felonies - one being Felony hit & run... but who knows?? I'm going to enjoy the peace & know he's safe.
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Posted: April 25, 2019, 8:30 PM


Posts: 378
Joined: November 9, 2018



These are really great posts. In reading them, it's hard to believe the craziness of addiction and how their stories can change on a dime. I can totally relate and I know often I feel like my head is spinning especially right after I've had contact with my daughter. One day she's going to detox (then checks her self out because they didn't "know what the f@ck they were doing") to...I'm going back on Wednesday (three weeks later) because "it was a really nice place". Wednesday comes and she doesn't go and can't really tell me why not. Now I haven't heard from her in 10 days which is very unusual. I've called and "I'm brushing my teeth I'll call you right back". Doesn't call back. Few days later I call her back "I'm throwing up I'll call you back". Doesn't call back. Its a NUTS existence.

I don't know how to have a relationship with her anymore. Its so chaotic and unpredictable. Just thinking about her and any of all the bad situations she has put herself in triggers my anxiety. Yet, at the same time I love her and care about her. Its such a dichotomy.
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Posted: April 25, 2019, 10:16 PM


Posts: 166
Joined: December 23, 2018



I Know SallyAnna - WE end up feeling crazy. Son is now trying to call us collect from jail. Found out he was arrested on a felony warrant - 3 felony charges for violating a restraining order that was issued about 2 weeks ago. Was arrested once already, released after a few hours. Now he has 3 felonies & a $250,000 bail.... I'm not accepting the collect calls either. This is a 45 y/o man who lives 1,000 miles away - I'm sure he thinks I owe it to him to get him out of there....
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Posted: April 25, 2019, 10:38 PM


Posts: 378
Joined: November 9, 2018



Oh my gosh mtnmom. I understand why you won't take his call. We shouldn't reward bad behavior. He put himself in jail not you. He's 45 years old. In 5 years he can join AARP for goodness sakes. I can totally relate to everyone's posts. They keep getting worse. Their rock bottom gets lower and lower.

This post has been edited by Sallyanna on April 25, 2019, 10:38 PM
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