Is She Ready, Or Not?
Posted: February 15, 2007, 12:17 PM


Posts: 47
Joined: May 1, 2006



I have my daughter home now after being on the streets as a meth user , for 2 yrs. . She called and wanted to come home , and agreed to go into a program. I only have one shot where my insurance covers an impatient program every 2 years. Weve been looking. Im giving her the benefit of makeing the chooice hers. Shes been home less than a week. She didnt use to, but since being on meth, shes like she has ADD. She cant keep still. Now cause we havnt put her right into a program Shes getting board. We went to look at one place. I didnt like it either, but she didnt like the rules there. I told her all the places will have rules. We have 2 assessments were doing today one is Serenty lane , the other is a regular state program. We thought of doing a outpatient program but I think she needs more. Theres a place in Calif that goes for 3 months but its soo far away, and expensive. Last night we got in an argument cause she says she needed a dog, if she was going to do an outpatient program. I told her no dog! Im trying to work with her, but I dont think shes really ready. She starting packing her bags and said she wanted to go back to the coast and do it on her own. My lord, she lived at druggie house to druggie house, and she wants to go back there? Im confused. Is she still not ready? Or should I spend the money and take her quickly to the program in Calif if she is willing. What to do? Thanks Ickity Ps . Shes 19, and this is the first time shes agreed to get help. Its been a 3 yr ride.

This post has been edited by ickity on February 15, 2007, 12:20 PM
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Posted: February 15, 2007, 5:47 PM


Posts: 784
Joined: October 22, 2006



Dear Ickity, Has your daughter been to any NA meetings while she is home?
I'm sure she could benefit from them while you and she try to sort out placement for her.
Spending a huge amount of money on a rehab facility that she may or may not totally commit to isn't wise, at least at this point

She took a huge step in coming back to you, but her resolve is probably faltering, it is so much easier to just fall back into old habits

I am not as knowledgeable as so many others on this board, who will be able to give you much more information and support.

But I would recommend soem support groups for you both, you will gain insight and help there.

Keep posting, and try to take care of yourself.

rita


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Posted: February 15, 2007, 11:22 PM


Posts: 2486
Joined: April 18, 2005



Mmmmm, didn't like the rules? Doesn't sound ready from my experience. Doesn't mean you still shouldn't help her get into something INPATIENT, outpatient with meth addiction isn't going to cut it, again, just my opinion from my experience. I wouldn't put out any cash, but if your insurance will cover something inpatient, have her do as much of the calling and organizing as possible, that will give you an indication if she is even a little bit ready. If she won't do any of the tasks to get her butt there, I wouldn't push it, and you may have to let go again, maybe it won't be for as long this time and she is closer to that bottom.

During this VERY difficult time, don't neglect yourself and your needs, I know that is hard to do, but it's VERY important in all this. She needs to see that you are taking care of you, and that she needs to take care of herself, her recovery is ultimately up to her.

I highly reccommend an Alanon or Naranon meeting for you, many times there are AA meetings in the same building at the same time, encourage your daughter to go, if she won't, that's up to her, but you need to be healthy and clear headed with everything that is coming at you right now. What you do or don't do is not going to make or break her recovery, that responsibility is completely hers. She may not be ready today, but there is ALWAYS hope, never doubt that!

Faith and Hope Always,
Kerrbear

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NOTHING CHANGES if NOTHING CHANGES
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Posted: February 16, 2007, 12:57 AM


Posts: 5751
Joined: November 6, 2005



That's heart wrenching.......I am so sorry you have such awful pain, ickity.

She's 19? This has been three years? I can't even pretend to know your pain.

Others will give you better advice as you have seen. I'm a recovering heroin addict so I'm a different DOC, but I'd say no way is she ready. I mean it sure is a huge, huge thing she asked you for help. She's not getting what she wants, and we're big instant gratification people. If it's not a dog it'll be something else.

I hope she made it today and you make out at one of those places. Again, I am so sorry. Oh, too why would she go back to the drug house? It's familiarity and it's what she knows. IT feeds her, and fills her up. Emotions....that's what we do.
That's part of the ritual of our addiction. I'm sorry.
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Posted: February 16, 2007, 10:03 AM


Posts: 1439
Joined: January 5, 2005



Hi Ickity,

I agree that it doesn’t sound like she is quite ready. Speaking from what my daughter has told me (a recovering heroin addict), sometimes she would reach a point where she wanted to clean up for a short time just to try to regain her sanity, but in her own mind, she knew she wasn’t totally giving it up. Several times my daughter went through the pains of withdrawal, only to be out using again within a couple months. At some moment, she said she finally hit a point where the lifestyle of using was driving her more crazy than she could handle. She reached a point where the constant almost feral search for the drug and the way it consumed her every waking moment was close to driving her insane and I guess she just couldn’t handle it anymore and that’s when she cleaned up. She said she knew if the lifestyle didn’t kill her, the drug would. She’s been off heroin for almost 15 months. She works the NA program and has a sponsor and she has relied heavily on both.

I, personally, don’t think you should spend your money on a rehab for your daughter. Our daughters DOC may be different, but they both have the same disease and for each of them to get better, they have to want it. It doesn’t matter if you spend your money on a state-of-the art rehab center or if she goes into a low-level state run facility – unless the addict wants to get better, NOTHING is going to work. Even if you or your daughter don’t believe in the NA program, that’s okay - she could still go there and talk to them and they have all kinds of information to help the addict from detoxing to therapy so she can get the help she so critically needs. It’s all right there in that room if she just goes in there and asks for it. When my daughter told me that NA offered all this help if an addict just asked, I decided then and there that I wasn’t going to put out anymore efforts to find her places to get clean – once I knew that she knew where to go to get help, I pulled back. I thought that if she knew how to get the help and if she really wanted, it was up to her.

I know how painful it is to just stand quietly aside and hope that our child hits a bottom before death. My God, I don’t think I know of a worse pain. Even now, with my daughter clean, I know the trauma of her addiction will be with me forever. I know as a parent you have been going thru a real battle inside yourself with your daughter’s addiction. Every waking moment is focused on her, but in doing that, we make our child our “DOC”.

Whatever happens, try not to let your daughter’s addiction take you down, too. Take care of yourself and trust that she will someday find her way.

God bless,

Diane

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"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1
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Posted: February 16, 2007, 10:38 AM


Posts: 1706
Joined: August 22, 2005



This is heartbreaking and painful but you sound strong.

I agree she doesn't seem ready but she is maybe getting tired of it- she's asked for help it's a small start. I presume the condition of her coming home was a program. If she wants some help but not a program is there some middle ground that you can agree on that is enough for you to allow her to stay plus of course all the usual conditions about money and using that go with staying in someone's house that we all stand by.

If I've learnt nothing else this year it is that getting the right treatment isn't easy and it takes a lot of talking about, a lot of thinking about and the timing has to be right.
Yes all recovery has to come from them and they have to want it, but the they have to reach rock bottom theory doesn't work for all and recovery is about a thousand other things being right also. You're daughter has to have enough confidence in herself and the chosen treatment because the fear of failing is big.
And I think it's about the addict seeing the bigger picture who do they think they are and where do they fit into the world as a non addict.

I seem to be banging on about talking and communication on here today sorry
ickity I'm sure you know all this but she may have reached a place where she needs something more than the drug what else ?
What made her pick up that phone? I bet she didn't think I want to do a program so what does she want? What can you help her with, that might get her to make that next step? Is there a drop in clinic near you that she can go to? Old pre drug friends she can link up with?

I know it's hard but do what is good for you this weekend, talk to her about everything and anything but not her addiction see where that goes. Try and do some mother daughter stuff together.
k

This post has been edited by Jazwan on February 16, 2007, 10:40 AM

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Stay Strong

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Posted: February 16, 2007, 10:54 AM


Posts: 1439
Joined: January 5, 2005



I agree with Jaz about hanging out with your daughter and talking about anything and everything EXCEPT the addiction. I did just that with my daughter - I figured I still loved her and wanted to have a relationship with her and I always wanted her to know I was there, loving her unconditionally - and I was.

I also agree that sometimes an addict doesn't have to hit what we might call a "rock-hard" bottom, but I do believe it has to be a point that is - for lack of a better word - their "bottom". A point when they say enough is enough - doesn't always mean they have to be on the streets, panhandling or stealing or whatever. My daughter didn't ever get to the point that she was homeless and she always maintained a job. Just the pressure of all that and the insanity of addiction was her "bottom."

This post has been edited by MotherW on February 16, 2007, 10:56 AM

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"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1
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Posted: February 16, 2007, 11:55 AM


Posts: 47
Joined: May 1, 2006



I love this web sight! You guys are always so caring and helpful. Thank you all for your input. Update.... We checked out a program 3 hrs away from me. It was fairly reasonably priced, but it was an old house that looked like a dungeon. I could tell my daughter was thinking, no way. Then yesterday , we went and had a assessement at Serenity lane. The man asked her sll sorts of questions. He felt that program was not for her and she was too young, and was too imature for the program. He also suggested, impatient. Soo, here it is, she will be going to narconon, in San Diego. I acually have family down there so Im pretty compfortable with it. Yes it is 29,000 for a 3 month or more program , but they deal with the whole person and if they need more time they let them stay longer. Also if they end up not being ready for the program , its an open deal for a year and they can come back free of charge. My insurance will cover some of it. Yes I have to borrow the money from famiily. Its acually coming out of her college fund my father had for her. Isnt it sad, she is so brilliant (intellecually) and she has to spend the money for this. Im just grateful I have help. Eveything is a toss up really , only time will tell . She was able to talk to the intake counsler their , and totally loved her. They had similar stories, they talked for a real long time. She was convinced thats where she wanted to go. Also yes I know Narconon is based on the theories of Ron Hubburd, Scientology, but they say they do not push it. They are into detoxing naturally with no meds. They are also not a 12 step program. Well see. All I can do is pray and wait. She will probably go in next week. I will keep you posted. If you know anything about narconon, feel free to let me know, good or bad. Thank you again for your support. Love Ickity PS A moms got to do what a moms got to do!
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Posted: February 16, 2007, 1:23 PM


Posts: 1439
Joined: January 5, 2005



Hi Ickity,

I know someone who went to a Narcanon facility in Oklahoma in December of 2003 – he was a heroin addict. You are right in the fact that they detox naturally and that is a good thing to some extent; however, the method they used with this individual was not good and the ambulance had to be called by his third day and they rushed him to the hospital and he wound up there for 5 days. Of course, he decided he did not want to go back to Narcanon and the people from Narcanon refused to give him his backpack and clothes and the police had to get involved. He finally did get the clothes, but his experience was bad. He said they gave him some type of vinegar drink to detox and had him in some tub for too long so all those things combined caused him to have some breathing problems – but keep in mind, heroin does affect the lining of an addicts lungs so I am sure that contributed to everything.

However, he said many of the workers at this facility were people who had only been clean for a short time themselves. In fact, they told him once he gets detoxed, he could work for Narcanon and he said they had him in meetings right away where Hubbard’s books were handed out and Scientology shared. I was this person’s emergency contact so I did have contact with Narcanon and they were always very professional and nice to me. It was a shaky experience for him. His family had money and they put this young man into many rehabs and the last I heard just a few months ago, he was in yet another half-way house.

Anyway, that was his experience with a Narcanon facility. But for his awful experience, I am sure there are other good experiences to counter that.

In the end, Ickety, you are right – you have got to do what you’ve got to do. You never know when something will click and you cannot ever, ever give up hope. Please keep us posted on your daughter’s progress – and I, too, will be praying it goes positive for her.

Take care and God Bless,

Diane


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"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1
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Posted: February 16, 2007, 4:05 PM


Posts: 3254
Joined: May 11, 2005



If you haven't commited money to them, you may want to read thru Silent Partners post on this thread. Their "natural" detox method is quite dangerous. And if they gave you the line about meth being stored in the body fat, nope.

"I wouldn't send a drug-addicted dog to narconon." ~ Silent Partner

This post has been edited by cynical one on February 16, 2007, 4:07 PM

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Posted: February 16, 2007, 9:48 PM


Posts: 5751
Joined: November 6, 2005



YIKES! Man, poor Ickity and her daughter. It's so tough to find a good place to go.

I recall being desperate and looking for facilities way back, and BAM narcanon was the first thing popped up on google searches and others. Kirstie Alley looks pretty in the picture too they have.

Ickity you're an awesome mom. I hope you make out alright. About the college fund! It is very sad, BUT this is about saving her life. She can always go to school up the road someway.

Best wishes.
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Posted: February 16, 2007, 9:52 PM


Posts: 5751
Joined: November 6, 2005



Oh, by the way........is it possible that Ickity's daughter can just go to a place that may look yucky, but will help?

This is just me........I'm lower middle class........had half decent insurance......went to a half decent rehab.......picked up.......was lower than low, and went into a hell hole, and that helped clean my act up.

Man, when someone steals your cheese sandwich, and four people have scabies, and literally half the people are 100 pounds and you have to share a shower with 12 women, and wear paper PJ's........you are grateful when you get home and have a tub........you don't have to hide your Honey Bunches Of Oats, and nobody is crawling with bugs........opened my eyes!

I saw just how far down drugs can bring you!
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Posted: February 16, 2007, 10:07 PM


Posts: 2378
Joined: December 30, 2005



FYI. Google searches can be manipulated to get sites to the top.

ickity

You might consider talking with a youth PO. They have many contacts and info on rehabs in their area. The local hospital is another source of information. Most have out patient services but can give you info on inpatient facilities.

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You can get busy living. Or get busy dying.

I define comfort as self-acceptance. When we finally learn that self-care begins and ends with ourselves, we no longer demand sustenance and happiness from others.
Jennifer Louden

There are no excuses, just people with excuses.


LINK: Posts about understanding and healing.


A fool learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. However, a brilliant man learns from what has been done right, and what others have done right, and avoids mistakes.
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Posted: February 17, 2007, 1:33 AM


Posts: 5957
Joined: April 17, 2005



Dear Ickity,

I know when I was asking for advice on rehabs for my son, many told me to stay clear of Narcanon. I did some more research into it and found there were even more people who advised against it. I didn't get any positives. Just passing on what I experienced.

My son went to a rehab in the mountains. It was old...nothing fancy...but appeared to be pretty well kept. It definitely didn't look like a resort, but that wasn't what he was there for. He ended up liking it a lot and wanted to stay longer than his medicaid would pay. Yes, we were blessed to be able to get him on medicaid just before he left for rehab. I actually hugged the girl when she said she would process him right away so it would be covered. It was our first glimmer of hope. I didn't know about the Salvation Army program back then or I would have investigated it.

What I came to realize is that they will only get out of it what they are willing to put into it. I would go more on reputation than the way a place looks.

My prayers are with you!

Love,
Susan

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attributed)

"If you think you are too small to make a difference, you have never been in bed with a mosquito." Anita Roddick
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Posted: February 18, 2007, 12:21 PM


Posts: 47
Joined: May 1, 2006



Hi all, Lastest update is, I was ready to put her into Narconon, and even in the back of my mind, I was a little concerned, I felt it was THE PLACE. Well, after looking at the info ' cynical one ' had written regarding the 'Silent Partner" I have since re-nigged. Thank you cynical one. And all the info everyone sent! My sister came up to visit from Calif, and took her back there for a week. Acually she went with her cousin who is also 19 and pregnant. Everyone was so glad to see her and thought she was doing so well. My sister has a freind down there who has a son who has custody of his baby girl and he is goingto meetings daily. She thought she could hook them up to go together and just give her a change of scenery for a week. What a freeing feeling of not trying to be anxious and afraid that Im not moving fast enough. I have decided to take it one day at a atime. This is her life. Im her mom and will be right there when shes ready to make the move, what ever that will be. She might come back and say , Ive got tot go back to the coast, and be with my peeps. You know the 1 step forward 2 steps back thing. ONLY GOD KNOWS. Im not pushing anything other than when she gets back here she needs to start meeting everyday , and keep the boundaries Ive set. But isnt it funny how we end up compromising for them. There is no set way, its a bumpy road. Im just not going to get excited anymore. Been there done that. Just love her and support her, and keep my BOUNDARIES. Thats the key eh? God Bless all you guys. This web site has been a life saver! Maybe I can get her to talk on this thing.! Thank you Ickity
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Posted: February 18, 2007, 6:48 PM


Posts: 5957
Joined: April 17, 2005



Sounds good, Ickity. I hope you have a peaceful and enjoyable day!

Love,
Susan

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attributed)

"If you think you are too small to make a difference, you have never been in bed with a mosquito." Anita Roddick
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Posted: February 19, 2007, 4:24 PM


Posts: 1439
Joined: January 5, 2005



Ickity,

I am glad you aren't putting all that money out to send your daughter to a place like Narcanon - they make themselves sound like they are one "magical" facility for addicts where they will be cured. They prey on the vulnerability of a parent's broken heart.

God bless you and please let us know how you and your daughter are doing.

Diane


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"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1
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