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Methadone To Suboxone "the In-between Period"

Posted: January 18, 2016, 12:26 PM
Hello- im 29 years old and ive been on methadone since nov 2007. I started at 40mlgs & went up to 125 by the 2nd year which i remained on 125mlg for about 2 years then slowly tapering down to 40 for another 2 years then slowly again was ready to lower the dose every 3 weeks till i was on 3mlg. 3 only 3. At that point it felt all mental. And it kinda is but the pains i feel now that i should have been feeling this whole time has intensified. Im only 29 not even yet in 2 weeks ill be29 i got on the clinic when I was 20. It seems like just yesterday. But now heres my real situation. - back in april 2014 i found a job. But totaly forgot to rememeber that I still needed my sat and sun dose my job started at 630 am and my clinic didntnopen on Saturdays till 7. Leavung me to pick between my new job or my dose i wasnt fully down to 3 mlg yet i was on about 15. So i chose to skip going to the clinic missinv my doses every weekend. Now ur probably wonder how the hell did i miss my dose and go to work ok with out using in the process. I had muscle relaxers and i also use pot for oain management and for my PTSD and panic attacks. From 2007 to 2014 i never picked up herion or one pill . I was in the right frame of mind. I needed to stay clean for myself because iknew if i didnt itnwas my last chance at life..living. but for those 7 years on the methadone i feel as if i got more physically addicted to the methadone. And the fact for 7 years i had to get up everyday at the same time to go recieve my dose becuz they wouodnt give me take home bottles because of my thc use.. basically they dosed me for using pot for 7years. I even fought in meeting to make them lower my dose. At time i started feeling way too over medicated. . Finally after along process of fighting my way down to 3 mlg i had to choose. And one day i decided i was just done. That was in august 2014 i just stopped going without any notice to them. They didnt believe me when i said i was finally done and one day their gonna wonder where i am.
So niw being said its been well over a year since i sopped going to the clinic. But here comes the bad news. My father at the age of 49 years old got sick with dementia and almost died but ended up in a nursing home for 2 years. I had some methadone saved up from my sunday bottles remember one point i was on 125mlg. And being an addict i always planned ahead. When dad got sick i wasnt off the clinic yet. But asa i left the clinic not even 3 months later dad got even sicker. Ending up in the hospital at age 52 with aspiration pneumonia. His lungs filled with fluids and everything he ate went straight to his lungs. Ugh i started using alittle more then i had realize.. specialy becuz it was being offered to me by someone who thought they were helping but was only helping by enabling my old habits. I didnt wanna feel. Finally the day came. I found out i was 12 weeks pregnant right b4 my 28th birthday& my dad starting hospice services. I knew i\we had to make a decision. My bf and i of almost 10years not to mention his brother passed away in 2008 leaving us 3 small kids to raise and take care of. Therebwas barely any room for me left alone one more child in the house. & also We wanted to keep this mirical baby but with him not knowing that i was still using pills and my left over methadone i knew i was destroying my body and the innocent baby made with love growing inside me. I didnt wanna be selfish and i had very strong visions of me havin a miscarriage becuz i could see my father passing away. My father always wanted a grandchild. Now i knw ur thinking im a horrible person and i still feel like i am but i couldnt bring this precious little innocent child into a world that i wasnt even reaady to face. I made the appointment &on my 28th bday this innocent soul became an angle before a child. Amonth later my father died. And i csn now say he has his grandchild he always wanted..Omg im crying. Right now. This is very hard for me. I dont Usualy go blabbing my life story to strangers.
So by the time july came2015 i told my b4 i felt like i was going backwards. He fully supported me and still does i stopped cold turkey & magically i thought i was finally good. Then oct 2015 came. Started using thr left over methi still had. Like itbwas there for emergencies or something. But now the beginning of 2016 something changed inside me. I still love the thought ofngetting high but i never can get high any more. And when i finally did i hated being high. Like who loves drugs but hates being high? Apparently i do. I realized that its just not for me any more.
So i found an old suboxone pill that was my fathers& i cut it into 14 little pieces. I havent touched methadone in a week but i deff dont feel perfect. Im afraid that whhats gonna happen when i run outtabthe suboxone? I have 8 little piece left since there wereba few days i tryed not to take. Am i just messing my sytem up by "self" medicating or dexoting? Its almost my bday and i wanna be completely done but have doubt that will happen b4 my bday.
I guess im asking now how long does it take for someone to detox off suboxone. Im assuming im onky taking abiut 3 or 5 mlg of it right now and every ogher day i take justc a smaller piece then the last time b4. Am i doing this right ontop of smoking pot to help with the pains in my stomach the irritability the leg pains the night sweats the tossing and turning. I need advice. Should i go to a dr & get on an actually prescription or stay away since im doing so well on my own? Hate to get on something else & have myself get addicted mentally to another substance. Im so affriad of going backwards that its actually hard to keep my eyes forward. Pot really helps tho with multiple things.. trying to get on medical for that but thats another subject. My whole life from the age of 11 when i broke my ankle &dr gave me oxycodon for a month or 2 i have had cravings i cant even explain where they come from. Will i ever be able to live opioid free? & how much longer should i continue taking suboxone. Since i only have a few left to begin with...please email me if u have any advice to offer..

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This post has been edited by moderator on January 18, 2016, 9:37 PM

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Posted: February 25, 2016, 6:40 PM
I have been reading peoples posts on here and I am impressed with their sincerity but not so much with their accuracy or display of knowledge of the Methadone and Buprenorphine/Suboxone/Subutex. Before giving advice on how to either transition from one to the other or to get off them entirely, I believe a person should have a full complete almost medical knowledge of the drugs involved because they can be deadly if used incorrectly. If I were to write a "thesis" on the two it would be excessively long and people would lose interest before they finished reading it. So here are a few facts. Both can be dangerous, especially Methadone. I have 15+ years experience with it myself being on doses as high as 260Mg./Month. It was always prescribed for me for pain and not for addiction although I am an addict. My drugs of choice are Alcohol and Cocaine also having tried anything that can be put in my body without the use of a needle. I am scarred to death of needles. Methadone is the stronger pain killer, but Buprenorphine has a much stronger mu-opioid receptor affinity that methadone which means it is "stickier" or that it will push other drugs off the mu-opioid sites. All except Naloxone and Naltrexone as far as I am aware. That is why if you take "Bups" while on a high dose of Methadone you will go into severe withdrawal that cannot be stopped by using more Methadone. Methadone has the second highest affinity for the mu-opioid receptors as far as I know. If you take approximately 0.6 mg - 0.8 mg per lb of body weight it will form an effective opiate block meaning that what ever opiate you take will be blocked and you won't get high. Everyone is different however when it comes to this. It is also NOT an effective block for Suboxone as Suboxone has a higher opioid site affinity. The other big difference between the two is that Methadone is a pure agonist and Buprenorphine in an agonist/antagonist similar to the pain medication call Talwin. Buprenorphine fills up more receptors than Methadone yet it does not "tun them on" or make then act as pain blockers. Naloxone and naltrexone both do this almost exclusively, hence their use for over doses. When a drug binds to a receptor and activates it fully (in the case of mu-opioid receptors) it blocks pain as well as repressed breathing and acts very strongly on Dopamine levels in the brain (although Buprenorphine/Naloxone/Naltrexone all effect Dopamine to some degree.) I realize that what I have written does not address anything about the transition or the quiting of any of the medications mentioned, but I believe that it is imperative that a person understand the chemicals with which they are working before undertaking any sort of dose manipulation. The amount of education/class time a Dr. is given on the nuances of opiates and and their effective use and there addiction properties as well as what to do with patients having problems with addiction is a matter of a few hours I believe. ABSOLUTELY not enough training for such an important live saving or taking issue. If you want to make your voice heard in a posotive way for you and others then write letters to Medical Schools requesting that they increase the amount of education that their Med. Students receive on this subject. You can even make it a form letter. Just make sure what you say in the letter in fact checked and correct not to mention sincere and state that it is a matter if life and death for MANY people in the U.S. and around the world. I will post my e-mail address, not my main personal one, but one that I check. This may not be the smartest thing I have ever done, but I know a great deal about this subject and I want to help those who want to be helped, so here goes!

***Please do not post personal contact information. thank you, the moderators***

Please mention something in the subject about Opiate or Withdrawal questions and I hope you don't use this to argue about what I have said or to put me down for my efforts. I DO care and I DO want to help any one who wants help. I do not know it all and will try to find a link for you for any information that you seek that I cannot answer. In Loving Kindness!

This post has been edited by moderator on February 25, 2016, 9:29 PM

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Posted: February 25, 2016, 10:22 PM

"If you want to drink/use that's your business ...
if you want to quit that's AA/NA's business"

It saved my life - it may save yours as well.

All the best.

Bob R

This post has been edited by Papa Bear on February 25, 2016, 10:25 PM

Serenity Prayer
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

Free copy of AA's Big Book on-line: http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/alcoh...olics-anonymous

Free copy of NA's Big Book on-line:
Copy & Paste coastalcarolinaarea.org/literature/books/b_t.pdf

Copy & paste www.aa.org/assets/en_US/p-10_howitworks.pdf



--- driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity.

---there are those too who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

... I need AA more than it needs me.

--- I fight recovery tooth and nail....
I'm not used to being sane, it just doesn't seem natural.

...... According to the great spiritual teachers, ignorance does not result from what we don’t know; ignorance results from what we think we do know.

---Some think that 2+2=5 and believe it.
Some know that 2+2=4 and can't stand it.

--- I didn't have a very happy childhood
but I sure am having a long one !

---Dry since 1989
working daily on getting/staying SOBER.

---If you want to drink, that's your business
...If you want to quit, that's AA's business.

... Tell me, I'll forget;
... Show me, I'll remember;
... Engage me, I'll understand.

---Most problems are psychological.
Most solutions are spiritual .

"If we try to change our ego with the help of our ego, we only have a better-disguised ego."
--Richard Rohr

WWBWD (What Would Bill W. Do)

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Joined: January 31, 2016

Posted: March 2, 2016, 4:30 PM
It blows my mind that people can go a couple days without their methadone! I have never had that option in my 10+ years of being on this crap. I start going into actual withdraw symptoms after only about 24 hours max ...any studies that show that with some people?? My metabolism is unusually efficient or something? My own non fact based theory is that maybe my body fails to produce near enough endorphins which is why I had severe malaise prior to even being on anything at all.

I have a script approved and at the pharmacy for pick up, I requested subutex (because of my theory) but I am pretty darn sure what is there is suboxone. I have tapered and I am very much stable at only 10mg mdone... today is the 11th day on 10mg (dropped in one shot from 15!) so far it has been easy enough which I credit to having the luxury of being retired and able to lay down anytime) that I am wondering if I should even bother with the suboxone? The old adage "you can pay me now or you can pay me later...with the "me" being withdraw sickness ...know what I mean? I like the idea of using minimal short acting opiate to get through the worst of it...except I signed a contract contract with the sub doc promising not to...they sure do treat everyone as a junky! Hell if I WANTED to be a junky there is nothing on this earth that could prevent that (other than disease or prison etc) And HOPEFULLY, Lord willing that is, there is NOTHING that is going to prevent me from clearing methadone! Whether i actually WANT to stay cleared of all opioids afterwards? I shall not boast in what I can not know ...I can't really kick too much at the quality of life while on methadone all those years. it was relief for ME personally...but my brain is going and I think the mdone may be responsible. Now FINALLY I am cured of HCV and I am HOPING it was THAT virus that made methadone something I needed and now don't ...though I am left with a much destroyed liver (cirrhosis) I have great hope that heals up by and by and my body somehow returns something like "normal" making endorphins etc

This post has been edited by Dougiequick on March 2, 2016, 8:30 PM

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Posted: March 2, 2016, 9:11 PM
Also I guess I should confess that I used a really unorthodox gimmick in my last huge drop
in a single step. I had failed in my first attempt to drop to 10 mg so this last time I used morning glory seeds which have several amines? amides? of lysergic acid "LSA" it is referred to which produce an LSD like experience. I can not say exactly why. but it pretty much eliminates the withdraw symptoms for some and seems to change my mindset as well...is it "good"? It worked for me. Is it safe? I would NOT say that! I would not recommend that anyone even consider it if there is any mental problems...I do not think it has ever directly killed anyone, however I think there was at least one well documented case of a suicide while on LSA. If someone wants to more about it, check out erowid etc. If the seeds are simply chewed it typically causes major nausea and vomiting but my first medium dose experiment I did not suffer that at all but I am the exception...the second time I did a high dose but used cold water extraction. The experiences were quite different, the second time being euphoric. I should mention that I am an experience user of LSD and the like from my early days even though I have not touched the stuff for probably 30 years before this. I don't plan on it after this either unless I was dying of cancer or something, then I might like to find a place that administers LSD or something ...supposedly make dying a lot more tolerable for some folks. YMMV btw I dont ever want to do anything that makes me ashamed to pray to God while doing it.

This post has been edited by Dougiequick on March 2, 2016, 9:13 PM
Jumbo jimbo

Posted: March 14, 2016, 7:12 AM
This is my personal experience and should be viewed as such, everyone is different

I was taking 10mg of methadone twice a day, I took my last 10mg dose Friday at 5pm

Then I got myself 10 30mg roxi's

Spaced them out the best I could and took my last one Sunday at 5pm

Monday morning at 5am I snorted about one third to one half of a zubsolv pill

Also took a 1mg Xanax and two 30mg adderal --and I feel great, no precipitated withdrawal, as I was in withdrawal enough from no roxi's in 12 hours and the only true worry I had was if I had waited long enough after my last 10mg methadone dose--and for me it seems that the 36 hours with no done and 12 without roxi was long enough to handle my induction dose of a third, or possible just a small half of a zubsolv pill. Not saying these times till work for u--and I have experienced PW before, and trust me it was a hour of hell on earth. These are my experiences and I don't instruct anyone to treat them as gospel --but just saying what worked for me

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Posted: March 15, 2016, 1:42 PM
I work in a profession in which your body takes daily damage. Daily physical abuse and coping with the mental stress of "Am I and my partners going to make it home tonight?" 15 years of abuse added injury on top of injury. I know this is about Suboxone, just hang tight for a minute.

As an "Alpha Male" your belief is suck it up, go work out, do whatever you must do to get back in the fight as quickly as possible because others depend on you. Your body can only go through this for so long and before you realize you are reliant on your DR. to give you something to get you through one day at a time before your next script is due.

I was prescribed various pain medications beginning with an ACL replacement, then a surgery to repair a stab wound to the face, and finally a gun shot wound. Those are the majors and don't include minor injuries from pursuits, assaults, training, etc. A stigma exists that people do not function on pain pills, but that's not the case. Some people get addicted to the euphoria, others like myself, live in so much pain that your body normalizes operating on opiates just to keep going. Your mental capacity is not diminished, you're not "high", you become normal operating on opiates. You keep fighting on, telling yourself that your meds are prescribed, that they are necessary evil, and you put others needs before yours. This can only happen for so long before your body completely crashes.

I was on my honeymoon in Curacao and 3 days into trip realized my meds were gone. At that time I was taking Percocet 7.5/325 in the amount of 15 to 20 a day to deal with pain. I spent the next week going through DTs/ Withdrawals in a foreign country. That was my wake up call of "Holy Sh!T" how did we get to this place. I suffered and made it home. I went to the DR and said "No More!" He then prescribed Suboxone to make the transition easier.

I can tell you that while on Suboxone I had no cravings for Opiates. Everything was great! Until...It was time to stop suboxone. There is going to be pain when you stop taking it but 90% is mental and the biggest issue is the insomnia.

I will be 37 in 2 days and I'm on my 7th day of "Cold Turkey" stoppage of Suboxone. I was on 8mg a day for just over a year. During the first 2 days the symptoms everyone knows about are annoying. Days 3-4 with no sleep and feeling like crap, the thought did cross my mind of "I want to die"! That's when I knew that the WTD was mostly mental because I have never had those thoughts. For me absolutely nothing helps to sleep, this is where you have to dig deep and know that if you suffer through the pain and remember it, you should be free. Now everyone is going to be a little different but here is my timeline. I'm 6'^' tall and weigh 220lbs.

Day 1 discomfort no sleep,
Day 2 major restlessness, cramping of major muscles in back and legs
Day 3 all the above, sneezing, yawning, no sleep, and you begin to feel very hopeless.
Day 4 same as day 3
Day 5 the feelings of "crawling out of your skin begin to intensify and anger begins to present itself.
Day 6 begin to feel 50% better but incredibly week.
Day 7 slept of and on for 2 hours but most major symptoms of withdrawal are gone. I can't speak to the insomnia yet, but I can tell you to get your a** out of bed and move. The longer you lay there the worse you feel.

As you may have surmised there are some substances that legally I cannot utilize, my wife is from Seattle and swears THC would help but it is not legal where we live soooo...
Hot Hot showers will be your friend, I took up to 5 a day to help with cramping. I hate drinking water, I'm from the south so sweet tea is drink of choice, but make yourself drink water or something containing electrolytes. I tried Benadryl to sleep and it made it worse. Aspirin and Ibup. to help with pain. Just know it is a mental game. It hurts, it sucks, but you're going to be ok.

My opinion: If you truly want to free yourself from opiates and not relapse, Suboxone is a tool to get you to a good point. If you are reading this it means your in the middle of withdrawal or thinking about stopping Suboxone, remember pain is temporary and the tricks your mind is playing will stop.
M in Indiana

Posted: April 11, 2016, 4:19 AM
Hello everyone. I have been in 90 mg of methadone for about six months. I decided to switch to subutex. I spoke with the dr, and he pretty much let me do things my way. Bad deal! I came down off the methadone at 4 mg per day, to 30 mg, stayed off 24 hrs, then took 8 my subutex. OMG! I thought I was going to die!!!! I went to the er, they gave me catapress, Ativan, and Zofran. That helped a lot, but not completely. The catapress does lower the blood pressure, but it also helps with anxiety and the tremors. If you ever have to experience withdrawal, I highly recommend it. Now, I went back and took 8 mg of sub the following day, thinking I would probably be better. Nope. Not in horrible WD, but still not doing well. So I upped my mg to 12 mg, the following day. Maybe if I flood my sensors with sub, it will help. Meh, not really. Here I am at day four, and I still feel anxious, jittery, and can't sleep. Wth! When does it end, and what can I do? Thank you for any advice. Much appreciated!

Posted: April 23, 2016, 11:55 AM
I have only been taking methadone for two weeks...just until I could get to my doctor and get my sub back...I got up to 40mg. It was two days ago in the morning and where I'm from they give you the liquid methadone for a long time before they give you the waffers. but yes can I take my suboxone yet? would it hurt me?

Posted: August 24, 2016, 3:16 PM
I was at the methadone clinic for a year. At 150mgs. So stupid. But that day I took my last dose over 48 hours ago now stupid I listened to the doctor telling me take it 24 hours I went into the worst withdrawal I've ever experienced I went to the emergency room because both arms tangled hurt and I went into cardiac arrest. I can't believe I'm even here now so I'm out of the er with nothing but fluids I feel like crap but nothing compared to that so I'm waiting the full 72hours before I take the sub which is about 10am and it's 3pm now. I'll keep you posted. I'm drinking lots of fluids.

Posted: September 17, 2016, 11:12 AM
Hey everyone, hopefully someone can help me out with my situation. I been on 140mg of methadone for alittle over a year. I got into a fight at the clinic and they put me on a 30 day detox. I detoxed down to 10 mg and yesterday was my last day. So it's been like 30 hours since my last dose and I feel like dogs***! I got two 8 mg Suboxone an don't know what to do! I used heroine a couple hours ago an it didn't help for long. After like 20 min I went right back to feeling like poop! Question is can I take the Suboxone by tonight and be OK?

Posted: January 27, 2018, 10:37 PM
I am around 120 lbs Danielle and I have gone through this at least 6 times, yet it is somewhat different each time, even though I'm sure you know it only gets worse each withdrawal period as you get older. Anyways, I would wait, just like she said wait it out and you will feel so much better rather than who knows?

Posted: June 11, 2018, 8:14 PM
I was on methadone or 30 years and now have been on subutecs 3 1/2yrs now and am having sever panic attacks depression so anxious in the morning its become unbearable i dont know what is causing this has anyone else had experience s like this .
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