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Coming Off Methadone

Posts: 1059
Joined: August 29, 2011

Posted: July 23, 2015, 5:08 PM
After struggling with addiction the way you have you will find that each time you clean up and then relapse again it gets harder and harder each time to stay clean without help. If methadone has been successful in keeping you free from opiates then consider staying on it. Read "your brain on opiates" which you will find on this site. It may answer questions on how your brain works with and without opiates.

good luck!




Posted: August 3, 2015, 1:19 PM
It is really encouraging reading everyone's posts. I have a few questions concerning my methadone program I was hoping I could get help with from people who have gone before me. I am 26, I have been a severe IV herion & meth addict since I was 19. rehab half dozen times, detox...retox..halfway houses...overdosed 4 times...the whole 9.. I have been on my methadone program for almost 8 months now... and am stabilized at 90mg. This is the longest I've ever been clean and I feel great. I really feel like I've put the hell of addiction behind me and can honestly say the last 8 months have been a breeze with methadone..It truly has been a miracle drug for me. I couldn't put together 48 hours before. I'm not in any 12 step programs this time and don't want to be. I've been in and out of NA/AA for 7 years and it could never stay clean. ( not knocking it, I know it works for a lot but I believe there is other solutions). I have supportive family, a relationship with my God, and a good career, ( so I have some what of a foundation aside from the methadone) I've started to think about tapering around a year. ( i would like to hit my 1 year sober/clean date before i start) but I am very nervous. First of all, I don't want to get off to early and go back to using...I am so afraid once I get off I will get high again., secondly, Im afraid of the detox and lastly, I'm doing so well why get off early and risk going back to old behaviors? My questions are;

1) I've been on methadone this long (8 months) Im afraid the longer I'm on the more severe the detox will be. What are your opinions on the amount of time your on meth making it harder to get off. I feel like my body's already been on it long enough now is there a big difference from being on a year vs. 2 years??
2) I've read a lot of people being prescribed xanax, ativan, etc, I would love to take some of this when I begin my detox, but at my clinic we aren't allowed to be on benzos with methadone. How were you all able to do this and be in compliance with the program?
3) I'm nervous about taking any benzos although I know they would really help if taken properly because I've abused those in the past too.
4) Whats everyones opinion on how long to stay on methadone? Like I said I think I would like to start my taper at my year anniversary. How slow should I detox?
5) I am so afraid I will start to or want to use once I get off methadone...What is your exp with cravings, desire, feelings of getting high, etc once off methadone?...esp for those of you who are off and not in a 12 step program...
6) what other tips and help would anyone recommend...( I don't smoke weed, so thats not an option) I get paranoid as f.
7) One more question...I have put on like 40 lbs since starting my program...I have such a sweet tooth and taste for like pizza and other unhealthy foods...most things I've read are of decreased appetite...have anyone of you also experienced this influx of weight and sweet tooth??

Thanks for taking the time to help me...any help would be much appreciated!

-Funky Junkie from Phoenix.

Posts: 973
Joined: May 14, 2015

Posted: August 4, 2015, 1:21 PM
Hi, so yes I do think the longer your on the harder to come off for sure, and yeah I think one year makes a difference, though that said if it will keep you from using, that's most important right? I'm trying to remember your questions so bear with me. Ok, as far as tapering do what's most comfortable for you. I know you said your not a weed smoker, neither was I, made me paranoid as well. First time I tried to taper it did help, did not get paranoid, helped me eat..though I didn't get off methadone only down some. When I quit for good, I jumped rapidly and I think weed made the psychological part worse. As far as benzodiazepines I was prescribed klonopin for 3 or 4 years while I was on methadone. I was not prescribed methadone. When I quit I came clean with my doctor and he prescribed me ativan, as I was dependent on klonopin and did not help. Be careful with that and honestly would recommend only taking once your completely off methadone. And for the main duration of withdrawal. I am not involved in aa/na. You will need some sort of support, doing alone is empowering but at same near impossible. You asked about cravings. I personally have no desire. Though for a long time off methadone I did have desire to feel 'normal' which of course could lead to relapse, I somehow fought off those feelings like the plague. But to me that was was the biggest..not totally be high/loaded but to just feel right in the head. Anyway sounds like you have a plan that's good...oh yeah, you asked about eating..yeah my whole taste buds did a 180...even switched cigarettes I smoke. Rarely desire sugar, and have had sweet tooth since child.

Posts: 1059
Joined: August 29, 2011

Posted: August 8, 2015, 6:32 PM
You sound like you are doing everything right. Methadone can be a great way to get yourself, your head and your life back together.
The main thing I have found from being an advocate, being involved with my clinic as a patient advocate, chairing meetings at my clinic for those in the clinic and writing a monthly newsletter for the patients in my clinic is:
If you've REALLY had enough of your addiction and you REALLY want to make changes in your life, then the first thing you do is you get to a dose that holds you, meaning where you aren't craving and wanting to get high all the time. 2nd, you be honest with yourself, your family, your counselor at your clinic in that you are NOT using & you are doing everything the way you should be. Meaning following clinic rules, testing clean etc.

3rd, You have steady employment, hopefully and you don't have any pending court cases...like where you could go to jail and blow all your hard work.
4th, your relationship with your family, or wife, fiancé or kids is good and you are not being pressured by ANY of them to "get off this stuff" or "you are only trading one addiction for another", as that's a sure fire way to give you conflicting thoughts about your treatment.
I find that when those things are in place and YOU are feeling good in your life and your choices then you can start thinking about tapering.
There is no set time for those who are on methadone...everyone's story is basically the same, only some of the circumstances are different. For me, I've been on it going on 22 years, but that is me and I'm good with that. It saved my life and methadone is why I'm where I am today. I got a job, and after a few years I bought a house and a few years later I retired. I go to my clinic twice a month to pick up my bottles and I live a full life. I go on vacations, cruises, care for my grandkids, garden and just about anything else I want to do. To get here, I just followed the clinic rules and stayed clean. (It makes me really angry to hear people say they are a slave to the clinic and that they cant do anything or go anywhere.)
The clinic didn't come looking for them, THEY came to the clinic looking for help with their opiate addiction and when they are asked to follow the rules it's everyone else's fault if they fail. It's laughable.

As far as detoxing, DO IT SLOWLY to be safe....maybe 2 pts a week or 5pts a month. Talk to the clinic doctor too. Ask your counselor to show you how the breakdown will affect you. You won't even feel the drops for a while but As you get lower you may. If, at any time you want to stop so your body can catch up, do it. What's the rush??. It may take a year, but that's OK...more time to work on things other than your detox, like LIFE.
Lots of folks have done it and so can you. You addiction wasn't 20-30 years like some, so you have a great chance of living your life free of addiction, BUT don't EVER underestimate your addictive brain. Get support outside your clinic at NA or AA. They are always good for support.

Good luck, you have a great shot at this if you do it right.




Posts: 135
Joined: July 3, 2015

Posted: August 11, 2015, 5:19 PM
People need to listen to Granny do it slowly but it can be done I am going on 48 hrs with no methadone and I felt it at 24 hrs but it has gotten a little better every hour. And because I have Jesus Christ with me and I believe He sent Granny to give people advice.

Posts: 16
Joined: August 13, 2015

Posted: August 13, 2015, 8:53 PM
ok let me first say i was in a motorcycle crash when i was 20 years old, by the time i was 22 i had sever back pain and was making me throw up terrible from the pain. I was prescribed norco's 500mg 4 times a day, and kept going up until i was at 4000mg 4 times a day, so i went on methadone because they said it be better and easier to get off it i wanted. so i stayed on that 10 years and finally 2 weeks ago i stopped for 3 days and went on the suboxone for 2 weeks and stopped. I am on my 3rd day off of everything and i feel like my mind is all over the damn place and it takes all my energy to do anything. I know methadone withdrawals can last 14 day to 21 days, but i am pretty sure i am not going threw methadone withdraws anymore but i am going threw the suboxone withdraws. am do feel better than i did this morning but my mind is so loopy and it very hard to think positive. I just cant stand being on anything anymore, and i want my normal life back so much and i think that is what is keeping me going, that and i found out my wife is pregnant. I did my own detox off methadone on to suboxone. I was trying to get off methadone for about 2 years now and i went down from 100 to 50 in about 6 months and took a pause for about 3 months. then i went down again to 17mg about, I had the wafers and my take home so i saved up and stopped going to my dr because i get no where with them when i wanted to come down. so I stopped taking my methadone for 3 days and took two 1000mg norcos on my 3rd day so i could sleep a little, and then the next morning i took 2mg of suboxone and then 2mg about an hour later and then 2mg about an hour later, i went by the cows sheet and the proper procedure of prescribing suboxone at first. then the next day i did the same amount, and then i did 2mg at 6am and then another 2mg at 3pm and did that for about 10 days. then the last two days i only did 2mgs and then i went off it completely. I took a xanax to sleep but only last a couple hours if i am lucky, so my question is anyone know if i became fully addicted to the suboxone and if so how long does it last? to be honest i felt terrible this morning but now feel a little better except my legs and the sweating. Also i am having trouble with my thoughts, i cant remember anything and it seems very confusing at time.

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Joined: May 14, 2015

Posted: August 14, 2015, 2:38 AM
Well regardless if you became fully addicted/dependent on suboxone, you were on methadone prior..so s*** it's gonna be w/d either way. I have no experience with suboxone, was on methadone. All I can say is the confusion/memory is COMPLETELY normal, mainly short term. Someone would ask me a simple question and I probably looked completely dazed, feeling they gave me an hour long interview! It will go away though. You said only 2 or 3 days right? even with the xanex you got a bit of sleep, which is good sign, cause a lot of people don't. I was lucky in that I always got a bit..though I know sure as hell doesn't feel like it! Try not to drag yourself down, hard not too, but there's no easy way out you know..BUT there is a way out...keep doing it man!

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Joined: August 13, 2015

Posted: August 14, 2015, 8:02 AM
yes the only trouble i am having really is my sweats and being very confused a lot, like i am trying to find my hat, and i cant find it and my brain is all scrambled so i give up. i have to get 3 teeth pulled today. i went to bed last night at 10 and woke up at 5am tossing and turning. so I got up at 6. My eyes are not dilated and go small in the light and big in dark like they should so i know i am not that bad now. I know i need to exercise but it so dang hard and i have not really eating anything in 2 days because i am just not hungry. I smoked some medical marijuana but really doesn't help besides the anxiety. I am not as depressed anymore so i am hoping mybe this might be the begging of me feeling better but i have heard this could last another week. I also know my body has not had to produce endorphins in 15 years so my body is kinda confused about that i imagine. also my mood is very bad at times, i get angry over stupid s***, i went to walmart this morning and got a little pissed. i just really need some support. thanks

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Joined: May 14, 2015

Posted: August 14, 2015, 12:22 PM
Play4pain- one thing I've learned....don't listen to what you've heard! (Far as duration of w/d) since everyone's different. And yeah the losing things is frustrating..can't tell your how many times I had my roommate call my cell phone when it was in my pocket or right next to me. And yeah getting pissed off like you said at little things that seem little huge things..sure I embarrassed myself in stores etc without giving a thought at time. Loss appetite I know is horrible, my only suggestion is try warm food... (least for me what worked) far as exercise I just started with walking......hang in there!

Posted: August 16, 2015, 4:44 PM
HI Im crying for help.This is my story,I been on methadone for good 5years now,and I hate it to bits.My everyday life depends on this stuff.Im working as selfemployed.I have lost so many contacts and messed around so many people because of methadone simply because if I dont go to pharmacy in morning to drink it Im f@d,cant do anythink ,cant work out of town,cant drive on 80ml the DVLA just too my licence off saying its too dangerous which I get.Everythink evolves around methadone and to be honest the clinic is not making it easyier aswell.I have been clean for 6months taking just methadone.I hope to start reducing slowly now maybe 5-10ml a month.But that is also a longtime reducing and god know what anything can happend in 5 6 months and I want to get off this now.Is there anything out there that can get me f methadone quicker???Please I cant take it any longer it makes me sick goin to pharmacy everytime having to drink it people looking at you like you some kind of crap or something.The only thing that keeps me going is,Ive been to clinic one day talking to the doctor.I told her that getting on heroin was my biggest mistake in life and she reply:NOT stoping wil be your second biggest mistake and I really dont want to do that.I want to get off this stuff asap.

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Joined: July 3, 2015

Posted: August 16, 2015, 5:29 PM
Getting off methadone is a hard thing to do I am now 6 days off but I tapered my highest dose was 60mg and I haven't taken that much in a while. But I understand this crap just takes over your life.

Posted: August 20, 2015, 9:43 PM
I have been on methadone for 18 years but my clinic kicked me off for not letting them talk to my main Dr because they were going to tell my Dr to cut all my other pain meds off. I have a very bad hip & knee. they droped me 10 mg a week then kicked me off at 15 mg. thankfully I had saved some of my carry outs and bought 100 mg from a friend. Im try to detox myself . I have helped others to detox at 1 mg a week . hopefully I can do the same to me

Posted: August 25, 2015, 10:41 PM
I'm not sure if it's encouraging or not reading the posts on this site. there's so much stuggle and desperation. On the other hand, seeing someone with the same symptoms say that they're doing well a few weeks sober is giving me hope. I only got into opiates a year ago. Hydros/dilaudid. Started out just as an escape from my breakup and loneliness. 12-24mg a day, first shot would immediately shut life out. within just a few months i was already doing 200 mg a day which costs over 400 dollars in my area... obviously not something i could maintain. I tried quitting cold turkey. I made it 24 hours and i just remember being so restless i was throwing myself around in my bed. then i went for a drive to find more. it was taking forever and i was yelling and beating my head off the window and slamming the stearing wheel. 80% of the drive my partner had to stear the car because i wasn't capable and he couldn't drive because he didnt have a license incase we got pulled over. I couldn't handle it. I tried weining myself down. didn't work. I went to the methadone clinic.
methadone immediately gave me energy to get out of bed and want to be out and do things. (vs staying in bed all day high/nodding off/sleeping) i went up to 50mg. the mornings i still felt extremely anxious and resltess and i hated myself. so i started with doing 1 shot of 12mg hydro each morning before the pharacy opened to relieve the anxiety and be "ok" enough to wait.
i started thinking it was ridiculous being on methadone and taking hydros at the same time. so i decided to quit methadone and just do the hydros. well after quitting methadone 12mg just didnt cut it. i got back up to doing 10 12s a day and it was HARD to find MONEY to afford it. i was barely getting by (i was also buying for two, a friend lived with me going through the same thing.. and he guilted me into supplying him.. he knew i had them and would literally cry at me)
money became the main reason i went back on methadone. now, im on 50, im still doing hydros each morning to take away the anxiety.. and all i want is to detox.
The clinic rules doesnt really give us a chance to try n quit. if we miss our dose--we're cut off completely. So there's no "backup" plan incase it's just not the time. So i need to make sure im good and ready.. cuz i only have one shot.
if i can get through a month of hell... it'll be sooo worth it to have everyday AFTER that sober and not relying on something. I feel trapped on methadone. very trapped. i hate it. it makes me angry being on it. I just want to be SOBBBERRR.

Posted: August 30, 2015, 1:25 PM
I'm 30 years of age and I've been on Methadone for nearly 8 years. Initially I got on Methadone because I didn't want to violate probation by using heroin. Prior to beginning MAT I had always looked down on those who were taking the "easy way out" by getting in line at the clinic.

My attempt at sobriety the first and second times were pitiful, but I learned. This was when I started observing the ways addiction manifests in my life. I successfully completed a 90 day inpatient treatment center October 2006. I never thought I'd use again. Just one year later, I found my self addicted to heroin again. This time my life was different. I had my own apartment, taking classes, and on felony probation for Robbery, and 4 thefts. So I looked into MAT.

Those were dark days leading up to the start of Methadone Treatment. My girlfriend, at the time, drove me 45 min to the clinic only to find that the doctor was on vacation. So it was another week of street activity. Finally I got in, and got my dose up to the the level that satisfied. 120 mg after 6 months and stayed there for years.

After starting Methadone Assisted Treatment, I've not been in trouble with the law one time. I stabilized my relationships and held a job. The jobs got better and better. I eventually transferred clinics, which took some adjusting.

For nearly two years I have been tapering my dose. 120 - 100, 100 - 80, 80-25, 25-30, 30-3
Each time I stopped to stabilize at that dose for atleast a couple months. Tomorrow is my last day dosing and i'm feeling strange about it. It has been my security blanket for all these years, I was bullet proof. But I cant tell you how excited I am to get off. Just nervous as hell.

Methadone Treatment saved my life. I wanted it to work, the same way I want my next phase to work. Today, I have a great life. None of the colleagues I've worked with over the past 8 years would have ever suspected that I was on such a strong narcotic, let alone a HEROIN ADDICT. I just hope I can make it.

Posted: September 4, 2015, 8:58 PM
I'm 64 yrs. old and have been methadone dependent for 30 yrs...almost half my life. I will tell you that I have been able to travel the world, work, stay married and essentially live a life like most middle classers have. Very few of the people in my life knew or know about my dependency. Yes, I was a heroin addict and had tried many times to change, put down, stop and all the other things that didn't work...until I went to a methadone clinic. It got me out of the lifestyle and away from the element I just didn't need. I can take credit for working the program right but I know without this medication I would've died or wound up in jail. I can go on and on but now that I am reaching the 2nd half of my life, I wonder how the heck it will play out with being addicted to methadone. I see all the clinics that state they can help no matter how long or how high a dose you're on but is any of that valid or is it all clinic hype looking for your money? Anyway, my advice to younger people is this...if you cannot stop heroin then I will say to you that methadone is a very good alternative but you do need more... change your surroundings if that will help and work some kind of program whether NA, AA or the Lord God above. Work with your methadone and I would say it is best to get off of it while you are strong in mind and body before it is too late. Hope this helps...God bless to all on this path.

Posted: September 8, 2015, 3:04 PM
IM WITH YOU. I am currently 25 years old and was on 90 milligrams for over 2 years. this past year i have been at 50 milli and slowley tapered down. starting with a 5 milli decrease every 2 weeks, slowing around 20 milli to 2 and 3 milli every 2 weeks and ending with a 2 milli a week decrease. I gained tons of weight while on it also and during my detox i did alot of exercising and barely felt the symptoms while tapering until this week. I have been at 4 miili for 5 days and i honestly felt stupid going and dosing at that level bc it wasnt helping and i felt like i was prolonging the withdrawel process. So i am 30 hours in since my last dose and i havent experienced anything i cant handle yet. but the withdrawels are there. 2 years ago i quit cold turkey at ninety milli and i felt like i was dying and crawled back begging to dose after 13 horrible days. the reason i quit at such a high dose so suddenly is bc the clinic i went to had a policy that if u missed a day (e.g. you didnt have the money to go that day) the next time you go back you have to pay the day you dose plus everyday you missed. If you didnt have it too damn bad. which ive been told is illegal since then. ( not sure if its true). The difference in the severity of the withdrawels between stopping at ninety milli cold turkey and stopping at 4 milli after a slow detox is sufficiently less horible, and i know i will be ok this time. my mind set has changed so much in the past year and i am confident in my new found will power. There is so much i want to do for myself, my amazingly supportive fiance, and my family all of whom iv forced to suffer along with me. while methadone maintenance can be a blessing for some and maybe exactly what you need to lead a normal life it was a curse for me. either i was so high i dozed and did nothing all day or so low i didnt feel like doing anything all day. for three years ive been beaten down by this terrible drug. And became someone i never thought i could be. i have a new lease on life and i am ready to embrace it.

For anyone thinking about this as an alternative to the needle please take it and do it in a way that your not on it for long. raise your dose to a proper level then gradually decrease to nothing. my cousin (RIP craig dominick) was on the needle for 10 years. 1 month ago a week before his 30th birthday he was complaining about a pain in his hip. my grandmother called the ambulance even though he seemed fine besides that. he was immediately admitted to intensive care for a Mercer infection in his entire body including his brain. he was already septic and there was nothing they could do. he died under the age of thirty the day after he was admitted from an infection in his blood caused from re-using his needles. he went to the clinic only for a quick fix and didnt take the proper advantage of the program. i think ab him every single day and while it wasnt my reason for starting my detox it has motivated me to stick with it. i hope mine and my cousins story helps see you through till the end. stay strong everyone.

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Joined: August 29, 2011

Posted: September 8, 2015, 7:12 PM
Tradaire and longtimer,
It is nice to hear once in a while how methadone helped make someone's lives better. I have been on it for many years as well, and I am in my early 60's too. It was a last ditch attempt for me and since the very first day I started on MAT I haven't used.
I live a full life with my kids, grandkids and my husband and I volunteer our time at our clinic each week helping those new to recovery from opiate addiction.

Congrats to you both!!




Posted: September 11, 2015, 7:27 AM
Ok, here goes; never done this before, but i believe i need help. I worked my addictive personality out w/ percocet, ( both oxy's), and methadone. I am on the methadone clinic, now and @ 71 mg. Was @ 130 at one time 1 & 1/2 yrs ago, down to 71 now. I WANT off this program, because i am ready to, ( wouldnt say it if i wasnt.) I know i will never do another pill/ drug period. I am having problems w/ the EVERY SINGLE DAY crap & trying to guest guest dosing to move, (47 & hubby is 62, right now we are camping), we want to go far to the end of Maine. Obviously i am holding that up. I know my mental state has been better for 3 yrs, and never better in my life; i AM AFRAID of all the SICKNESS talk & dont want to be sick for a month. I sat on my couch for 3 yrs depressed getting overweight, did NOT move off it; i do not want that again. But, i can not go w/o sleep or that dope sick feeling. And it is physical, cuz i didnt think i'd go thru it if i had no interest in using, but i miss a day & started that FAMILIAR feeling 36 hrs after last dose. Can somebody tell me what they think?

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Joined: July 27, 2015

Posted: September 11, 2015, 11:10 AM
Hi guest, it might be good to start your very own new thread for your questions, so it doesn't get lost.

First, I was on Methadone for 5 years. I was put on it for pain related to a cancer diagnosis, but also because I had addiction and they didn't want me on the short acting opiates like Oxycodone, for my pain. So, I was given an actual prescription. The Cancer diagnosis overrode the addiction diagnosis, they couldn't make me stand in a line. So I don't have the Methadone line experience. My daily dose was supposed to be 60 mgs/day, but I abused it. Taking up to 90 mgs on somedays and then backing down to 10 mgs/day, when I was getting low and was gonna run out early.

I was treated way differently as a cancer patient trying to get off of Methadone then I would've been as just an addict trying to get off of it. Unless you seek out an Addictionologist, you might not find a tremendous amount of support with regard to a monitored medical detox. Compassion tends to run hand in hand with insurance coverage and money... That's a terrible thing to say and an even worse thing to experience, but it's true. I got a Suboxone pusher to be willing to detox me off of Methadone using Morphine. I knew I wanted off of drugs, I didn't care that he was a pusher because I wasn't going to stay on it. The only thing I wanted his help with was not dying while in the process of detoxing off the Methadone. Methadone stays in the system a LONG time, it's different for each person depending on their metabolism. The doctor allowed me to stay on Morphine for the first 10 days, then tried switching me to Suboxone. I had gained a lot of weight on Methadone, so even at 10 days, the Methadone was still in my system. He then tried switching me to the Suboxone, it was too soon. I went into precipitated withdrawal. I went back on the Morphine for an additional 11days until my drug screen came up negative for Methadone, then switched to Suboxone. Don't stay on Suboxone, it's another trap... If you need it for a week or so, to help with initial cravings brought on by the Morphine, that's understandable. But, it's no cure.

I did not escape Methadone detox without some uncomfortabilty. The 3 days I kept trying to take the Suboxone while the Methadone was still in my system, were horrible. You will have some pain with it. But this was my experience of medically assisted detox at HOME. I don't know if you will find that out there. But one thing is for sure, if you go inpatient, wait until the withdrawal is so bad you just can't take it anymore. If you go inpatient too soon, you may spend precious days not in withdrawal yet and then time out ( a stay usually lasts 10 days ) and get discharged when the withdrawal is at it's worst. The hardest thing with Methadone is to try and figure out if what you're feeling is cravings or withdrawal. They are not the same. I'd crave about 3 days into it, but I wasn't in full blown withdrawal until right when I stopped the Morphine the first time. And you can be in withdrawal and still test positive for Methadone for a while after... Confusing stuff to navigate. Get professional help with it, then go to NA and take it one day at a time. You can do this!

" Many times I sought the lighthouse
The familiar beam in the dark
Looking for the comfort
Radiating from its spark;
Today I turn that inward
No longer am I the seeker
I am not just the lighthouse
I am the light -
And lighthouse keeper. "

Posted: September 17, 2015, 9:17 AM
Hi people from last year I'm currently trying to get off methadone it's hard I'm coming off from 40 but tappering down I'm in the stages of pins n needles fatigue restlessness psychological stuff ahhhh feeling it coming outta my bones I'm wondering if I should go back to 20 or just keep trying it is hard but not as hard as H that's for sure I hope to get through this for my healing journey... Creator please let this pass
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