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Posts: 37
Joined: January 12, 2016
Posted: April 25, 2016, 3:03 PM
Working from home today, thankfully, and have help with my babe. Was able to take a hot bath and eat some chocolate. Helpz.
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Posts: 81
Joined: April 22, 2016
Posted: April 25, 2016, 3:24 PM
Hey Grace,
I'm here :) I haven't gone anywhere. So I imagine it's getting a little intense by now. By my calculations you're starting to climb the peak. YOU CAN DO THIS!! I know it feels like hell and your body is becoming a torture device. Try not to think about that. Right now lets just focus on getting through to the evening. One thing at a time. Have the muscles aches and leg cramps started yet? When you get a chance try sitting down and write on here how you feel. Just get lost in your words. It's actually very therapeutic. BE STRONG!! I'm right here with you through this. Your addiction is really going to play with your head tonight. Don't listen to it. You're already in the thick of it and to turn back now would be to throw all this work so far away. Just think how nice it will be to finally put these subs behind you. To never go through this again. You may think you're losing the fight. If so, know that this is normal. It's your addiction messing with you. To break free you have to master it. Keep me posted. I can't share in your symptoms but I can be here by your side every step of the way. I know it seems like you're alone but you're not. I'm right there with you. If that means I need to give you my email address so you can communicate with me quicker then so be it. Just let me know if you want that for tonight. -------------------- "He who master others is powerful. He who can master himself is mightier still." - Lao Tzu | ||
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Posts: 37
Joined: January 12, 2016
Posted: April 25, 2016, 3:48 PM
I actually dont feel as bad as I thought I would. Tonight will be hard, as will tomorrow when I have to go back to the real world. But I'm feeling very strong.
Thanks, Bryan. | ||
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Posts: 37
Joined: January 12, 2016
Posted: April 25, 2016, 3:57 PM
By the way, I think part of why I don't feel as bad this time is bc I used sub film for the first time this time. In the past, I've used the tablets, which crumble, making it hard to get an exact dose and easier to cheat. 'Having a bad day? I'll just do a little bit more...' It wasn't being regulated for me, I had a limited amount and probably ended up jumping at much higher than .25. I found it easier to reduce and regulate w the film. Thankfully.
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Posts: 81
Joined: April 22, 2016
Posted: April 25, 2016, 4:19 PM
Yeah I found that the symptoms weren't as bad as a traditional opiate withdrawal. Still rough, but not as intense. Night worse than days, left side worse than right side.
As you get further into it you'll start having this roller coaster affect. You'll have a really crappy night but then the next day you're okay and that night you sleep great. Wake up and you can feel it again. I'm having one of those feel it days today. It's not bad by any means, just a feeling at the very bottom of my stomach. For me, withdrawal always started in my head with the watery eyes and runny nose. Then came the arm and leg cramps. Then it entered my stomach and it was like you could feel where it was at. Ended with diarrhea. Going by that logic I'm at the very end of it. Just some lingering symptoms every other day. Now remember I jumped from a much higher dose then you so I would imagine this will be easier for you. Glad to hear you're doing well and still going strong! I'll be here if you need me. -------------------- "He who master others is powerful. He who can master himself is mightier still." - Lao Tzu | ||
Posts: 16
Joined: April 9, 2016
Posted: April 25, 2016, 6:49 PM
I hope the two of you don't mind if I jump in sometimes. :) If ya'll (with that last word, ya'll, I guess you can pretty much figure out what part of the US I live in!) Anyway, if ya'll would rather me start a new topic instead of butting in, please let me know.
Graceful, I could relate to a T, when you talked about how opiates/pain pills motivated you and how they even seemed like an antidepressant. It was always percocet or Lortab for me. Wow, I could clean the house, wash clothes, and do anything else I needed to do. I am and always have been a single mother. (ALMOST got married) My son is now 17. I was using before I got pregnant, quit while I was pregnant. Which was very easy BC I was not taking enough to give me too bad of W/D'S. Then I started with the pills again a few months after my son was born. I was still a teenager myself and I played around with some other "harder" drugs, but thankfully I didn't go too far with those. Mostly Cocaine and a lot of ecstasy when we would go to the clubs downtown or when there was a party at the University campus.... But I loved my pills! I felt like SuperMom. I was very much a good mother also. When they are young, they love you unconditionally. Like you, I got so tired of the lies and the amount of money I was spending EVERYDAY. The guilt and then the fact that I started needing more at a time BC I was building a tolerance. I finally voluntarily Checked myself into a Detox Center. It was hard. On the 3rd day there, I was so dehydrated that I couldn't get out of the bed and they had to hook me up to an IV. The next day I felt better. I wasn't great but better. And then the nurse told me the Doctor had prescribed me something that was going to change my life for the better! It was Suboxone. This was 11 years ago and Suboxone was still fairly new in our Country. It had been here a couple years. They were already prescribing it over in Europe. When the nurse gave it to me, that was the first time I had ever heard of it. Went home 5 days later. My son was 6 at this time. I stayed clean and was taking my Suboxone. After 2 years on it I tried to come off cold turkey. I actually lasted a week, but I was deleriouse from no sleep and my emotions were all over the place. I really thought that I was going crazy! Note: I jumped off at 8mg. Dumb. After a week I gave in and went back to Suboxone. But since I had been off of it for a week already, I tried to start back at a lower dose. I was able to tolerate 4mg/day. After all of this and a few months later, things went very wrong. My whole life changed. Ok. My hand is about to fall off! I need to take a break. I will post the rest of my story tonight. I realize this may be boring for some people to read. But I need this. This is better than rehab! It helps me to write my story down so that I can look at it and gain some perspective on all of this. It's also helpful when I see how encouraging ya'll are. | ||
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Posts: 16
Joined: April 9, 2016
Posted: April 25, 2016, 7:01 PM
Bryan1128,
I just read your last post and you mentioned having a runny nose... As you've read, I have recently come down from 2mg. to 1.75mg. That's only 25% less but my nose is like a leaky faucet! I thought it was the allergies. I'm sure allergies factor in, but is a runny nose part of the W/D ? Why does my Doctor not tell me this stuff?? :[ | ||
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Posts: 81
Joined: April 22, 2016
Posted: April 25, 2016, 7:10 PM
yes runny nose, watery eyes, and yawning are very common side affects.
A lot of people also report their non-dominate side having more muscle cramps then their dominant side. I'm right handed which meant for me my left side, especially my left arm, seemed to hurt the worse. 8mg was a very high dose to jump from. That must of been intense. 2mg/day is where I jumped. I could of went lower but I was just ready to be done with the subs and so glad I did it. The first 72 hours of withdrawals, not 72 from last dose, was hell. After that it got much easier very quickly. Tomorrow morning will be a full 2 weeks since I begun my withdrawal. Today was 2 weeks since last dose. -------------------- "He who master others is powerful. He who can master himself is mightier still." - Lao Tzu | ||
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Posts: 81
Joined: April 22, 2016
Posted: April 25, 2016, 9:04 PM
Hey Grace,
Just want to check in with you and see how you're doing :) I mean, I know... but write it out. It will make you feel better. -------------------- "He who master others is powerful. He who can master himself is mightier still." - Lao Tzu | ||
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Posts: 37
Joined: January 12, 2016
Posted: April 25, 2016, 9:40 PM
At 4am it will be 72 hours without subs and exactly one month without percs for me. Huge. I see a light at the end of the tunnel. I had a weak 'this sucks, no wonder u always go back to the pills' moment today, but I fought it. I realize that it wasn't even bc I felt particularly terrible. I just want to feel good. And that used to be all too easy. For now, it's unrealistic. It's really not been that bad so far and I feel so grateful to be able to function and not suffer too much. I'm trying to remind myself of the tortures of past w/ds in an effort to never want to go there again and remind myself that this is nothing. I have been through so much worse. I'm trying to practice some gratitude. I know people have mixed feelings about subs, but I'm so grateful for them.
Going to try to get some rest now. I hope you get some rest too, Bryan. It seems your work is never done. | ||
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Posts: 37
Joined: January 12, 2016
Posted: April 25, 2016, 9:55 PM
Thanks for your support flower girl. Of course you can join in! I will try not to keep Bryan all to myself. 😉
It's so nice to hear from a fellow Mom who gets it. It's so hard to admit that you are a parent with a problem and I fear people will think I'm delusional when I say that I am a good Mom despite my addiction. Thanks for validating that. I'm sure you are a good Mom too. I want to be an even better Mom now. I know we can. | ||
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Posts: 81
Joined: April 22, 2016
Posted: April 25, 2016, 9:56 PM
Yes, go get some rest. Even if it's not sleep just take it easy.
Yeah those thoughts really suck in the beginning. They really play with your head. You did good and the more you do it the less it will happen and easier to deal with when it does. So glad you have a positive mindset about this. Doesn't it make such a huge difference?!?! Well I'm still going to check in here every hour or 2 through out the night in case you need to talk. -------------------- "He who master others is powerful. He who can master himself is mightier still." - Lao Tzu | ||
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Posts: 37
Joined: January 12, 2016
Posted: April 25, 2016, 10:07 PM
Hugs to you, B. You're special.
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Posts: 16
Joined: April 9, 2016
Posted: April 26, 2016, 2:35 AM
Graceful,
Thank you for your kind words. In my earlier post today when I was sharing my life story, I need to go back and clarify a few things. I lived with my parents when I had my son and we had an agreement that I could go out 1 night on the weekends and sometimes 1 night during the week. So when I said that I went out and indulged in other things, It wasn't too often. I raised my child, not my parents. But, God Bless them, I couldn't have done it without them! But you are absolutely right, we may be good mothers, but I believe that we both know in our hearts that we can be even better mom's without the pills and eventually without the Suboxone. Have a good night and I hope that you can get some sleep. Keep reading Bryan's encouraging posts BC I really want to see you do this! I've still got a little bit of time before I actually totally 100% quit the Suboxone and I can only hope that I will get that kind of support on this forum when that time does come. I am using a slower taper method BC I have been on Sub. for 11 years. But I will be where you are before I know it! And even though I am doing a slow taper, I STILL have W/D's. No pressure! I'm sorry. We've all relapsed. But you sound like you are sick and tired of being sick and tired. I'm right there with you. I am 36. I don't want to keep repeating this vicious cycle. I want to truly enjoy the rest of my life... CLEAN AND WITHOUT SUBOXONE! | ||
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Posts: 16
Joined: April 9, 2016
Posted: April 26, 2016, 2:54 AM
And Bryan, you have defeated the W/D from Suboxone! 2 weeks now since you have had any!!!!!!!
That is really something :) :) :) I hope that you continue with this new chapter of your life. Things will only get better. I know you still have your moments. I have heard that after the physical WD starts to level out, that the mental ups and downs can get a little(a lot) tough.? I am going to finish my story tomorrow, um, it is tomorrow. I will finish it sometime today. Gotta get some sleep. | ||
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Posts: 81
Joined: April 22, 2016
Posted: April 26, 2016, 3:00 AM
just checking in. I saw your post Pink but i'm goign to wait until the morning to respond.
Guessing you're doing okay Grace :) I think I"m going to go get a hour or 2 of sleep. I'll check back in as soon as I wake up. -------------------- "He who master others is powerful. He who can master himself is mightier still." - Lao Tzu | ||
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Posts: 81
Joined: April 22, 2016
Posted: April 26, 2016, 6:53 AM
Okay, I'm back...
So to respond in more detail pink, yes there is definitely a mental aspect to it. Not just with subs but when you get off of any drug dependency. A lot of people go into their detox/recovery thinking "Okay, lets detox from the drugs and I'm good. If I can get past the withdrawals then I can do the rest easily." That is about as far away from true as you can get. It's not until you detox that the real battle begins. As addicts we lose impulse control and this creates very strong behavioral patterns. Your brain is as much addicted to these patterns as it is to the chemicals altering it. Usually when people get through the detox, they get this intense sense of accomplishment. Life literally has new meaning. You're happy and ready to take on the world. Then after a couple of days that feeling starts to go away and you're filled with depression. All of a sudden, life has no meaning. You feel lost and bored. Thoughts will start to fill your head of how you use to use. Every little thing will remind you of your use. It's at that moment most people relapse. They are confused because they thought if they go through the withdrawal that they're good. Now here they are and they're struggling even more then just a few days ago when they felt like death. So two things are happening here. First is that voice in your head, the thing that makes every action you do trigger a craving. That's the addiction talking. As it has done through out the years with out fail, it's messing with your head. It's lost control temporarily and it's now fighting hard to get back into the prime light. It wants you to cave in and use again. You have to take the reins from the addiction and quite literally become the master of your brain. This doesn't happen over night, it takes time and practice. The second thing is behavior patterns are being broken. You spend years, or in my case almost 2 decades, finding and using. You might not realize it but you have a ritual when you use. For some people that's listening to a certain song, others it's using at a certain place after you scored, even how you prepare them and the materials you use. For me it was scoring, driving to the burger king down the road from my guy, using, then playing on my phone until I nodded out. The whole process becomes highly ritualized. If for what ever reason you can't complete the ritual, you simply substitute for something that will work for that one time and you get it right the next time. When you detox, you no longer have a physical need to use. You don't feel sick anymore. This goes against daily behavior you've established over the years. It makes you feel lost and without purpose. Your day just doesn't seem complete. We are creatures of habit after all. As hard as this phase is, it's possible to get through it. It's how you approach it. If you just sit there dwelling on everything then you become your own worst enemy. The chances of you relapsing and starting over grow stronger the more you let it fester in your head. Instead, when you get that thought in your head you need to identify it as the addiction at work. When you do this, it becomes easier to deal with because you know understand what's happening. Just as important, when that thought happens is the exact time to begin working on new behavioral patterns. Your brain is looking for a "ritual" to replace the one you had. Give it that, let your brain get occupied with the new patterns you establish. This could be reading a book, going to a gym, walk in the park, etc... The more you occupy your brain with positive stuff, the less down time it has to put negative stuff in your thoughts. I personally have not experienced any sort of mental roller coaster, though I know people do. Emotional for sure, but mentally has been easy for me. I credit that to my doctor and therapist who have done an amazing job in telling me exactly what's going on inside my head, how to identify it, how to cope and deal with it. From what I can gather, people who weren't able to get counseling and professional help are the ones who suffer at this stage. I'm not saying if you don't get help that you can't do it. Not at all. What I'm saying is people who don't help usually go into this battle unarmed. You can still fight and win, of course, it just becomes a harder is all. Hopefully, anyone reading this and going through this mental stage will gain some insight as to what's going on and how to handle the thoughts and cravings. Good luck everyone and keep me posted and how you are doing, please. This post has been edited by bryan1128 on April 26, 2016, 6:59 AM -------------------- "He who master others is powerful. He who can master himself is mightier still." - Lao Tzu | ||
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Posts: 81
Joined: April 22, 2016
Posted: April 26, 2016, 7:05 AM
Yeah... so as I read what I just typed out I'm realizing I should of waited until I had woken up a bit more.
A lot of errors. So many that I deemed it easier to just admit what happened instead of going back and trying to edit. You might have to add or remove a word here or there but you should be able to figure what I was saying. -------------------- "He who master others is powerful. He who can master himself is mightier still." - Lao Tzu | ||
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Posts: 37
Joined: January 12, 2016
Posted: April 26, 2016, 8:20 AM
You are the Yoda of this sh*t, Bryan. Everything you said resonates so strongly with me. I've been through the cycle you describe so many times. To a 'T'.
Restless night for me but I did get some sleep, thanks to a Xanax, I'll admit. Really not feeling great this morning, but off to work I go on a rainy Boston morning. The weather matching my mood. Have a good one. This post has been edited by Graceful on April 26, 2016, 8:24 AM | ||
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Posts: 81
Joined: April 22, 2016
Posted: April 26, 2016, 8:35 AM
It's okay if you used a xanax to get some sleep. That sleep was necessary and very much needed, I know.
I'm glad you managed a few hours at least. Please, just make sure you don't develop a dependence to the xanax to help you sleep. Try to use them a little as possible. As bad a opiate withdrawals are, I hear benzo withdrawals are even worse. You don't want to go through that as well. Everyone goes through the mental stage, again it's all in how you approach it. I find if you know what to expect and how to handle it then it becomes infinitely easier to handle. If you go in with the wrong mind set or wrong expectations then you are setting yourself up for failure. When your recovery doesn't go as smooth as you envisioned it... it's quite soul shattering. That's why we say one thing at a time, dont' stress about what tomorrow will bring. Even though they have learned a lot about addiction over the years, there's still no "cookie cutter" approach. You can't really predict what each person will experience. That's why we need every bit of information and the tools to deal with the situation as they present themselves. Knowledge truly is power and the more you know, the more you can handle what is happening. That knowledge removes the fear of the unknown which is a game changer. Glad you're still going strong Grace. I'm so proud of you!! By my math, you've almost reached the peak. I'm thinking by tonight you should peak. This is day 4 for you, the one day you haven't been able to get past. ONE FINAL PUSH AND IT'S DOWNHILL FROM HERE!! -------------------- "He who master others is powerful. He who can master himself is mightier still." - Lao Tzu | ||
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