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I Could Use Some Insight Too


Posts: 1052
Joined: June 5, 2005


Posted: November 18, 2012, 6:31 AM
So, Alot of you guys know I've gone to alanon, yadda yahh .. I'm there for life; I have several years in and a strong recovery.. the addict ? Still in his cycle ..

We still have a connection through our daughter .. The man has been off the real meth for quite some time but resorted to smoking Spice if any of you know of it .. If you don't, it is a synthetic "legal drug that for his is somewhat similar to a meth high ..

First off, he is not in the state I'm in right now; he is visiting his family in another state .. Long visit, he has been there 3 months .. Eventually he will return ..

Basically, I have seen the targeting that takes place in his family. I have watched his mother having a conversation with someone that ended peaceful and then take it back to his family; twisting it and targeting the rest against the one member .. I'm sure this happened alot when I was with him .. The problem ? I can't have civil conversations with him without being told I'm a b*(^* anytime I'm honest .. Typical addict .. but now ? he's resorted to getting on the phone during his weekly call and telling our daughter things to pit her against me .. My part ? When he starts I tell her to tell him she loves him and I end the call .. His part ? Threatening me again with court .. The man is crazy and yet ? He has more rights than I care to think about .. He is determined to continue to make me his solution by trying to make me look bad over and over and when it comes to our daughter, I feel the powerlessness ..

I cannot believe the courts could give a dad so much power .. If I refuse to let them talk, I become the image of the x controlling gf .. Because we live in a state that gives dads plenty of power and because the abuse is directed at me more than her .. There is nothing I can do, but is this not abuse to turn an 8 year old into an emotional toxic waiste dump ? .. My choices are limited ..

The reason I try to keep things peaceful ? It's possible he could get her every other weekend and then weeks in the summer .. I don't know if he would follow through .. the idea is scarey

I have spoken to attorneys .. I just have absolutely no idea how to get him to understand this is a child .. He is convinced I downsize him to our daughter; I don't do this ..

His aggression has increased .. He will call me with the family background and then say things only they can hear .. he will fuel the fire Regardless of what I say .. I don't say much to him on the phone anymore but the fear still strikes me when I imagine the worst ..

I'm just wondering if anyone has been through anything similar and how you dealt with it .. I will never reach a point in spite of a strong program of being stronger than this disease .. It's unbelievable ..

--------------------
When you lose, don't lose the lesson

Share your knowledge, it is a way to achieve immortality ..


Repition in meetings Replaces Obssession..
alanon promise, we will learn to replace obssession with faith..

alanon promise: we will learn to love others without losing ourselves: we will learn to love ourselves.. ( love is an action )

we will come to know the vastness of our feelings and no longer be slaves to them


Posts: 1067
Joined: November 19, 2005


Posted: November 18, 2012, 10:08 AM
Lynnette,
My heart breaks to hear what you are dealing with. What are the attorneys advising you to do?
OMG-bath salts? I thought all states had banned that stuff. The courts won't like too highly on a bath salt addict. The problem is proving it because he will deny it.
Do you journal? I was told to keep a daily journal when I was going to divorce my husband. I guess when youccuse someone of something, the courts want dates and times and what was said or done and a daily journal could be evidence.
As far as the phone. You can record his conversations as long as you inform him you are doing it before the conversation starts. He can either continue or hang up.
Protect yourself and your daughter. I have to run but I hope others will be here later.


Posts: 1052
Joined: June 5, 2005


Posted: November 19, 2012, 1:30 AM
The attorneys say as long as the abuse is directed toward me and not her there isn't much I can do .. The woman becomes the prey so to speak .. it's pretty sick stuff .. I don't know much about salts .. not sure if this is the same ? either way it's bad news ..

I hope someone adds too .. Sometimes I get replies sometimes I just get ignored in here .. Either way it's ok .. I have another site i use too

Thanks for posting ..

--------------------
When you lose, don't lose the lesson

Share your knowledge, it is a way to achieve immortality ..


Repition in meetings Replaces Obssession..
alanon promise, we will learn to replace obssession with faith..

alanon promise: we will learn to love others without losing ourselves: we will learn to love ourselves.. ( love is an action )

we will come to know the vastness of our feelings and no longer be slaves to them


Posts: 1052
Joined: June 5, 2005


Posted: November 19, 2012, 1:31 AM
and yes, I do journal .. i just don't know the best way to respond to him .. sometimes it seems i'm damned if i do damned if i don't .. feels like he can use everything against me .. I have yet to see him actually take the action though .. time will tell .. for now it's a lot of threats and targeting ..

--------------------
When you lose, don't lose the lesson

Share your knowledge, it is a way to achieve immortality ..


Repition in meetings Replaces Obssession..
alanon promise, we will learn to replace obssession with faith..

alanon promise: we will learn to love others without losing ourselves: we will learn to love ourselves.. ( love is an action )

we will come to know the vastness of our feelings and no longer be slaves to them


Posts: 96
Joined: September 13, 2011


Posted: November 19, 2012, 5:33 AM
Hi
I had to post. It's so darn difficult for you. I always tell my daughter that we will always have a ph call debrief. That because of drugs her dad has taken he will lie and make up stories. I listen to the convos. She is 5yrs old. This was on the advice of a child psych. It really does help. We also have discussions about how its very important that "we" never lie to each other. It all helps dealing with the effect of having an addict dad. I talk little to him, barred his ph from mine to stop abuse. He has a land line at his parents he can use. It's where he lives.
Look, no matter wat a child will be affected by an addict dad. But she needs her contact. My girl gets the random weeks apart call. Keep your communication high with your daughter, low with him. Just has really worked well for me. My heart breaks for all the sweet little kids having to wear an addicts behaviour. It just sucks! BTW you have nothing to prove to his family.
Kindness
Arrow


Posts: 1052
Joined: June 5, 2005


Posted: November 19, 2012, 8:02 AM
Arrow, does your daughter know her dad has a drug addiction? I have never brought it up to my daughter .. She's been sheltered as much as possible from that part but then again she begins to think his behavior is about her too .. wondering if the psych said to mention it or leave it alone ..

--------------------
When you lose, don't lose the lesson

Share your knowledge, it is a way to achieve immortality ..


Repition in meetings Replaces Obssession..
alanon promise, we will learn to replace obssession with faith..

alanon promise: we will learn to love others without losing ourselves: we will learn to love ourselves.. ( love is an action )

we will come to know the vastness of our feelings and no longer be slaves to them


Posts: 155
Joined: June 6, 2012


Posted: November 19, 2012, 11:34 AM
Lynette I am so sorry for what you and your daughter are going through.

My family, friends, acquaintances, etc. used to tell me that when my children grew up they would be able to see things more clearly and realize that the bad things their Dad said about me were untrue. I wish that were true........unfortunately I think it can really screw with their minds as children. I was not proactive, I was passive believing the truth would win out and our family has paid consequences since the children have become adults. I should have taken steps to confront the lies and hold their Dad & his family accountable. Sometimes it gives them liberty to lie (make excuses), verbally abuse and do mind games with the Mother............it's a learned behavior that Dad taught them. Sometimes the Dad and family did a good job convincing them that Mom is bad and the one who is all screwed up. The kids can be so vulnerable and that unhealthy behavior can lead them into addiction.

Keep being proactive. I think it's a really good suggestion to let him know he's being recorded or that you're monitoring calls. Journaling is also good advice. Let your child know that their addiction (illness) and the family's codependency (illness) is behind the lies, excuses, and manipulations. Personally in hindsight I don't think it's a good idea to hide the addiction problems from your child. I think honesty and healthy discussions are best. A counselor for your child and to help you know the best way to explain things to her would be a good idea.

Hoping the best for you and your little girl. They are really sick people to use your child to manipulate you.


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Joined: April 24, 2007


Posted: November 19, 2012, 2:14 PM
Got some stuff to say, but can't until later


Posts: 96
Joined: September 13, 2011


Posted: November 19, 2012, 9:07 PM
I had already disclosed it to her before I saw the psych. Though he agreed with me telling her. It was to stop her blaming herself for his lack of stability. And she was blaming herself! She understands medicine, as she has daily meds. As for her completely understanding addiction, she doesn't. But she does know that the nasty drugs made her dad change. She knows she can't control wat her dad does and that she isn't responsible for him not being around or not calling her. She said to me last week, " dad thinks he is a good dad doesn't he?". She blames nobody but him and knows he might promise something and not do it. Over the last 2 months she has really showed me that I did the right thing. She knows I don't do drugs and that I will always be here. If she didn't know the whys, she would be blaming herself and always unsure if I could change like her dad did. The tighter my boundries got with the addict, including her knowing I will NEVER get back with her dad, the bigger her self esteem has gotten. That's wat worked for us. If she asks to call him, I let her without question. She hasn't asked for a month. I tell her she is allowed to love dad, he loves her. She definately doesn't have major disappointment anymore, but she has the deep sorrow of not being as close to her dad anymore.

I suggest seeing a child psych, it really evolved me into being able to guide her into the light. It really seemed like therapy for me.....Hahahaha.....but it was all about her. I later also discovered it would also prove that I am not putting up barriers for dad and daughters relationship. Incase he ever tries for custody.

Goodluck, you know your daughter.


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Joined: February 20, 2010


Posted: November 19, 2012, 9:28 PM
maybe better attorneys, in most agreements ihave seen there is a clause to the effect that neither parent will talk badly about the other.. so, tape the conversation, the entire conversation..not legal? neither is drug use. keep the tone light with him and the minute he gets abusive tell him "i"m sorry I wont stay on the phone when you are abusive" if he calls another name, hang up..he'll prob call right back, make sure you stay calmand consistant, record if possible and journal, it was allowed in our custody hearing when we got our grandson 2 years ago..the advocate asked to read all my notes prior to the hearing, i actually just used a calendar and would note Mom didnt call, no call, called me a b****, no call for Easter etc, etc it may sound petty but it all added up


Posts: 1052
Joined: June 5, 2005


Posted: November 19, 2012, 10:04 PM
Thanks, I'm a little concerned in that I have never mentioned the drug addiction to her and am afraid of her running to him with it and having him blow it up .. I will definitely look into child psyche .. we have one we work with but she teaches more coping skills .. I thought she would benefit her, but I think I need to do what's in our best interest and look for one who specialises in addictions and their effects, etc ..

As for court, I do have notes, but they are wordy .. I need to revise them .. My biggest fault is that I tried talking to him civilly for too long; it works against me .. I can't fix him, change his mind, I know this .. I do also need to look into another attorney; the one I spoke with is close to retirement and doesn't seem too enthused anymore ..

I think the pressure I'm feeling is that I try to keep the secret from her and it's exhausting, especialy when he calls and says she's going to know the truth .. his truth ? isn't truth .. I also wonder if somehow in my subconscious I am still proteching him .. She is my focus now; not him.

I admit I'm confused .. I too did the waiting with hearing she will figure it out, but I'm not sure on that one as I see the damage it does .. Before I say anything, I will look into what we need.
thanks ..

--------------------
When you lose, don't lose the lesson

Share your knowledge, it is a way to achieve immortality ..


Repition in meetings Replaces Obssession..
alanon promise, we will learn to replace obssession with faith..

alanon promise: we will learn to love others without losing ourselves: we will learn to love ourselves.. ( love is an action )

we will come to know the vastness of our feelings and no longer be slaves to them


Posts: 2340
Joined: February 20, 2010


Posted: November 20, 2012, 9:13 AM
after my son came home from jail my grandson said one day, "do you think Daddy is going back to jail again?" all we tolf him is we didnt know, his dad is sick and does dumb stuff sometimes, we hope not. she already knows something is up because you are not together, maybe something as benign as talking about people making good and bad choices would help her work it out herself, im not sure. i also had a journal that was wordy, but no one wants to read all of that, keep it short and simple if you are taking it to an advocate, they also looked at pictures and convos on Facebook..


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Joined: April 24, 2007


Posted: November 27, 2012, 12:21 AM
Very good thought, momg. Lynnette, sorry I'm late to this one. Spice or bath salts cause psychosis, but it sounds like he got most of his finer character traits from his mother and the drugs will only exacerbate this aspect of his character. It's almost like legalized meth, it's that bad...with meth you might have a while before it gets that bad, with this stuff it can happen immediately.

What to say to the child? I think momg's notion of a general discussion is a solid one. I work with kids who live with various types of dysfunction...parents in jail, parents who are more involved with the drugs than the kids, kids who take care of themselves, kids who live in crack houses and sleep through school because they can't keep their eyes open. From an adult perspective it is hard to understand how they could think the way they do, but there are two things I have learned in my 12 years doing this: (1) A child prefers a bad parent to no parent and (2) they DO blame themselves and think that it is somehow their fault that their parent behaves in such a way, that they are unloveable or have not loved that parent enough to keep him or her 'normal'. To us it seems so obvious that it has nothing to do with anything a child did or did not do, but to them it seems just as obvious that the flaw is theirs, not the parent's.

How old is your daughter? What is her relationship with her dad like? Does she fawn over him and crave his attention? Or does she have a healthy regard for him and recognize he is troubled? If you can't be sure of her response and reaction, I would tread very carefully since he already (in his paranoia) believes you are bad-mouthing him to her. A family counselor who specializes in addiction in families can help your daughter sort through what's going on in her life.

Hang in there, Lynnette, you are a good mom.

Peace ~ M&M

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You will not change what you are willing to tolerate.

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Posted: November 27, 2012, 10:09 AM
hey Lynette where are you? sometimes our Bub (age 5) is so much more accepting than us. he knows when his Dad is "sick" our gs doesnt know it is drugs but he sure knows something isnt right. i was also wondering how old your daughter is
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