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Heroin, To Subs, To Nothing In A Week?
Giles206






Posted: December 21, 2011, 6:53 PM
I am trying to kick Heroin for umpteenth time. I last took a shot of s***ty dope almost 36hrs ago. Started feeling like crap last night. Slept for maybe a couple hours. Tossed and turned and was generally uncomfortable. Took a whole 8mg sub this morning and now feel pretty much okay. I am planning on waiting as long as I can to take another dose of Suboxone. I am thinking I will only take like 2mgs the next time i feel the need. So, my plan is to use Subs to detox rapidly. I am thinking I can maybe take subs for only a very short amount of time to detox from the heroin. I am hoping to take them for not more than a few days. Has anyone else ever done this? Thanks.


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Posted: December 21, 2011, 9:03 PM
That's waaaay too fast. You would have been better off splitting that 8mg into 4 and 4 morning and evening or over two days. Jumping from 8 to 2 is not a great idea. Suboxone has a half life of 37 hours meaning that 37 hours after you take it, half of it is still in your system, so the effects are cumulative and you will feel the WDs about 2 days after you take your last sub. Sounds like you are playing with them rather than having them prescribed and supervised by a doctor, also not a great idea. Generally people who do a rapid taper do it over a minimum of two weeks, though a month is more common and a week is almost nutty.

A few days just ain't gonna do it and you will likely find yourself right back on the gear. What's your rush?

Tell us more...

This post has been edited by MomNMore on December 21, 2011, 9:05 PM

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You will not change what you are willing to tolerate.

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Giles206






Posted: December 21, 2011, 9:21 PM
Money is a big factor. I have also talked to a friend while in detox at an inpatient treatment center did a rapid detox similar to what I am talking about doing without any major side effects. I have to score my subs from my H dealer and don't want to be tempted to buy anything but the subs. Might have to bite the bullet and buy more Subs though. I just think that if i don't acclimate my body to the Subs (Taking them over an extended period) that I won't be as dependent upon them. I don't want to be taking anything. Subs, H, anything.


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Posted: December 21, 2011, 10:42 PM
How long is your H habit and how many bags a day? It matters. Just because a friend in detox did it doesn't mean you can or should...be very careful. My daughter did her taper over three weeks, medically supervised, going from 8 to nothing decreasing approximately .5mg a day...she had two days of WDs, uncomfortable but manageable. Her habit was about a year and a half using about 4 bags a day. Everyone is different.

Funny your dealer is selling subs...cutting into his own business...or creating a whole new monster...

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You will not change what you are willing to tolerate.

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MelissaLynn






Posted: December 22, 2011, 12:20 PM
Lol. My dealer also will find subs if you need them.

Speaking of my dealer - he's called me every day to see how I am doing and told me to call him if I get tempted to buy or get some H and he will talk me out of it. He's also trying to quit at the same time. He's on Methodone - through a doc's care. His biggest problem right now (he told me) is everyone calling him still to get them H. I told him to shut off the phone or get a new one. He's just a small time guy - gets H for a few of us from a larger dealer but still, he can't manage with everyone calling and asking for it.

I remember when I first spoke of quitting, he told me he would help me, not hinder me as he also hates this lifestyle anymore! So far, he's actually been true to his word. He's been a great help to me, because he understands all the ins and outs of quitting and subs and methodone and he's been so informative and supportive towards me. I really hope he makes it too, I talked to him for like an hour, he's trying hard. He's been clean 2 days - same with me. Hell, it's only 2 days clean but it's a start. It's 2 days I didnt' run around blowing money on H and shoving it up my nose. My habit was about 8 bags a day - I snorted, never shot.








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Posted: January 7, 2012, 10:52 PM
How far into withdrawal from opiates-pain pill prescriptions does one have to be into before taaking sub? It seems that I experience agitation, restless legs even when I attempt to wean from 6 norcos to 4. I've been taking norco and opana er for about six years now due to pain. Now I want to be free from this demon and take my chances with pain. What I can't stand about taking these pills is the lack of motivation to enjoy life. I just don't care about anything except chilling out. Is it possible to begin having withdrawal symptoms due to being so dependent that the pills no loonger make me have the feeling I once had. Also, what do I look for in terms of symptoms of enough withdrawal to take the sub?

This post has been edited by eneri8 on January 7, 2012, 10:59 PM


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Posted: January 7, 2012, 11:38 PM
Most docs recommend that you be a MINIMUM of 18 hours into withdrawal, preferrably 24-30 hours. Weaning from anything should be verrrrrry slow...try going from 6 to 5.5 to 5 to 4.5 to 4 to 3.5...and so on, even staying at a dose for a couple of days befre going down again. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

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Posted: January 7, 2012, 11:49 PM
It would be a good idea to contact a doctor that can treat u. Suboxone can be very helpful if taken properly. Some counseling is needed also. It works together hand and hand. I did treatment for two years. I am now off and clean for sixty days. Do the program it will work if u want it to. Good luck. Eric


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Posted: January 8, 2012, 12:12 AM
It means so much for you guys to respond to my questions. When you say to wean slowly, say from 6 to 5.5 and on down, how much time are you talking about? Should weaning take less than 3 weeks, 6 weeks or 3 months? Also, since I take opana er, does that mean that I may not be in withdrawal from it at 18-24 hours? It seems opana er stays in the body for a while. Any information is helpful. The doctor who prescribes my pain medication said that he recommends I take my last dose of meds before midnight and then come to his office. Does that mean he thinks 12-15 hours is long enough to wait until I take the sub? I know that the opana er will take longer. Right? It's a little difficult to ask him too much about the process when I'm not sure that I'm totally ready. I know that is fear talking. Is it okay to be taking other drugs to help me cope with withdrawals prior to going in to get the sub?

This post has been edited by eneri8 on January 8, 2012, 12:15 AM


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Joined: November 20, 2011


Posted: January 8, 2012, 12:35 AM
What kind of other drugs r u referring to?? Opana extended release. Does that have methadone in it if it does 24 to 36 hrs to feel withdrawals. Narco not so long probably 12 to 16 hrs before seeing your dr. Im no doctor so my advice is only based on what I have experienced .

This post has been edited by Eric249 on January 8, 2012, 12:36 AM


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Posted: January 8, 2012, 1:41 AM
Ok just checked out opana er it is basically morphine. I still say 24 to 36 hrs before taking the subs only because its extended release. Talk to your dr as he may answer your questions with better knowledge. Hopefully some other people will give there opinions. Welcome and keep us posted. Eric


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Posted: January 8, 2012, 2:33 PM
Suboxone is a powerful drug. Should be taken under the care and supervision of an addiction specialist. I know that some can't afford that and are trying the best they can...but educate yourself BEFORE you take it. If taken too soon it can throw you into the worst withdrawals ever, take too much and it'll do the same. Ideally, you should take your first dose in a dr's office, called an induction, to see how you react to the med. This medication works really well if it's done properly, screw around with it and you'll relapse.

I don't know how long you're supposed to wait for heroin or methadone but pain pills that aren' time released, 18 hours is sufficient. 24 hours is better. And med that's time released..that's a crap shoot because who knows how long it stays in your system, except a dr.

Sub isn't a miracle pill by itself. It allows you to stop the behaviors that keep you using and helps heal your brain when taken long enough but without a program behind it, it's just another opiate. If you can't afford counseling, try NA, it's free.

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I used Drugs to forget, I got clean to remember.


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Posted: January 8, 2012, 4:21 PM
The other drugs I was referring o are Xanax, clonidine-drugs that presumably help one to sleep, therefore, experiencing less agitation during the withdrawal.

How long of a time period to I spread out the weaning process. I don't know what a good schedule is. Can someone help me? Often I can go 12 hours without the norco as long as I can sleep. That may be because of th opana er. I can wean off opana er as long as I have 6-8 norcos to take. However, my pain doctor doesn't like for me to take more than 6 norcos a day. I guess it has to do with the Tylenol. I want off these demon drugs because I have no motivation for life. I've been looking at amino acid iv therapy because I know I have depression. Does anyone have experience with this route of treatment. From what I read the most dreadful thing about detox is the "black hole."

This post has been edited by eneri8 on January 8, 2012, 4:30 PM


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Joined: January 7, 2012


Posted: January 8, 2012, 5:01 PM
One more thing I need to ask is about Kratom. Someone mentioned this as beneficial when weaning and/or withdrawing. Exactly what does it do to help? Does it ease the agitation and pain or does it work like a diet pill-hype one up?

KMNINnR






Posted: February 8, 2012, 11:01 PM
To the one that posted the thread, I hope you were able to come off of the dope OK and stay clean. I have much experience with heroin/ suboxone. Its been my experience that I've had the most success/ clean time/ no cravings when I have been on Suboxone maintenance long-term under doctors care, although if you are unable for whatever reason, it can also be very effective in the short term just to get over the sickness. I came off of dope again just last week with only a few 8mg doses spread out over a few days. Its definitely effective to detox quickly, although if you had a serious habit you'll still feel pretty empty even after the detox, which is why if possible try to go long term maintenance
At the treatment center/ detox here where I live the protocol for rapid suboxone detox is once you start to show symptoms of withdrawal they give you 4mg for your first dose, then you are able to take 3 more doses of 2mg at least 4 hours apart in the next 24 hours. Thats 10mg day 1.
Day two you are able to take 3 doses of 2 mg at least 6 hours apart. So 6mg in day 2.
Two doses of 2mg 8hours apart day 3. And one last 2mg dose no more than 24 hours since the previous dose. Thats the standard suboxone detox schedule there, a top national treatment center.
Hope that helps


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Posted: February 10, 2012, 8:33 AM
imho.... it takes alot more than a couple of days or a week to taper down and become drug free. you also need support, be it group support or somethin to occupy ur mind and body. perhaps a job or similar... a healthy taper imho is also tapering down at 0.4 mg per week or fortnight. ( in GB we get 2 and 8mg of suboxone.2/8 and 0.4mg of subutex) hope everyone is doing well and all the best for the future..
ps... after t5hye taper,chances are you'll get p.a.w.s.---Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms... being mood swings,lack of sleep,depression,lack of motivation.. etc... not all of them but some. so it's advisable to get some help rather than gp it alone... :)

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midnight rambler






Posted: March 24, 2014, 5:24 PM
Greeetings,
While I find most of these posts somewhat informative I do not see any reference to any other 'supportive' type pharmacological treatment, i.e., muscle relaxers, (robaxin type) or sleep assist medications, soma or the like. considering the fact that you are taking from your body and psyche a substance which seemed as necessary as oxygen for the duration of your habit, would it not be wise to include these as well as an increase in protein and vitamin uptake? The reason I mention this is that most of the Dr.'s I come into contact with in the field of treatment-detox strongly urge the use of these.
i'm preparing to do a mid range self administered detox, and would like to hear some views on this aspect of detox. It has been my experience that even after the detox phase, one experiences weakness and exhaustion throughout the body and mind for several days. P.A.W.S. can be encountered weeks after the physical symptoms have passed. For me thi period has always been the worst. The ghosts of zero self esteem take control as I wallow in the quagmire of self pity and loathing. Bottom line though is that you will kick somewhere...home treatment facility, or jail.
steven






Posted: July 7, 2014, 5:19 PM
I just wanna say that this forum helped. I just quit a 4 bag a day habit for the management of mouth pain due to bad teeth and just set up an appointment 3 days from now with a doctor who prescribes suboxone. .I just got a strip from a supportive friend that is 8 mg and I took only 1/4 of it today..I started med school today and tryin to make sumthn of my life. So cold turkey and the sickness is out of the question bc I cant afford to miss any classes..im just hopin I dnt experience the black hole bc itll be intense pain since several teeth bother me not just 1...my family is supportive and I only been on H for a lil over a month..
Julia






Posted: September 1, 2015, 12:47 PM
Hi everyone! Everything that I have read here has been so helpful so thank you all for that. Making a long story as short as possible, I have Lyme Disease and 4 other Co-infections and the worse part of it has been 24/7 severe pain. Pain Drs still haven't found anything that works on Lyme pain so we've had to do a lot of trial and error, mainly error. Jurnista (hydromorphone) + Dilaudid worked for about 3 months then even at max doses it did nothing.

I'm in Vancouver, BC and have an odd situation that my Pain Specialist will see me and write a report for my GP w/ recommendations but the GP has to do the script writing as she (the Pain Sp) has a two year wait list and doesn't want to spend her time writing scripts and refills. When the Jurnista stopped working the GP suggested we go with a Fentanyl patch and knowing nothing about it, I agreed to try it. It never did much for me and the GP kept upping the dose so by the time my appt with the Pain Specialist rolled around, I was on a 125 mcgs patch and 32 mgs of Dilaudid. My Pain Sp was shocked to find out the GP had me on the equivalent of 400mgs of Morphine; so was I!!!
The worst part was she told me it wasn't working for me, if it was going to work I would have felt a difference at 37.5mcgs. To complicate matters, BC has decreed that pain patients must be on the same long and short acting meds..Oxy with Oxycocet. There is no short acting Fentanyl so I have to go off it.

My Pain Sp has said she will do a Detox in her office using Suboxone. I don't have any idea what this entails other than I have to be in full withdrawal when it's done. I am very nervous about this because I am already in a LOT of pain and going into withdrawal scares me but I also worry perhaps the patch was helping and the pain will be worse! I get no high from any of my meds and I hate the patch and will be glad to be rid of it but I am terrified because I am not going off of it because my pain issues have been resolved.

Can anyone walk me through what it's like to go through an Opiate detox with Suboxone?? The Pain Sp suggested I might want to stay on the Suboxone if it helps with my pain but I imagine I won't know that until after the detox. Any suggestions of what I can do or take to make the Detox easier? Am I right to be terrified about the withdrawal and Detox??? Thanks for any help!
Julia






Posted: September 2, 2015, 7:20 AM
Thanks so much for the reply and the link to your website. And a HUGE congratulations for coming off heroin, man that must have been pure hell!!

I think one thing I have in my favor is that I don't want to be on the Fentanyl. My Pain Specialist told me, and I found this to be true, pain patients don't generally get any high or pleasure from their meds and only 3% become addicts in the true sense of the term. I know I sure don't get any high or pleasurable effects from the F patch. In fact it's caused some side effects that are not pleasurable at all. Plus, the damn thing doesn't last the 48 hrs much less the 72 hrs they claim it does. Every second day, a few hours before I am due to change it, my pain increases big time and I thought the patch just wasn't lasting long enough and my pain was coming through but I know now that I was going through withdrawal. And the kicker is, I never experienced any pain relief from it. But because I've been on it for a year or so, I still have to taper or detox off it.

The part that really makes me nervous is the actual detox itself. Can anyone tell me what it's really like? What goes on during the detox? What can I expect to feel? Will I feel sick as a dog when I take off the patch and wait the hours to get the Suboxone? Will the Suboxone work to get rid of the withdrawal symptoms? How long does it take to get to a high enough dose to feel human again? If anyone has done a Suboxone detox I would love to hear their experience, a blow by blow description. Thanks everyone !!!
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