Can They Be On Drugs With No Money?
Posted: June 8, 2017, 11:05 AM


Posts: 386
Joined: August 28, 2016



My son claims he isn't on drugs because he has no money and is living in his car and has no gas and no food and no money to pay for the car title loan he took out on his car.

He said I was a as--hole and had no clue what it is like to live like he is and how could I think he was on drugs if he can't even get gas or food. He said I live a comfortable life and have never lived like he has. I told him it is all about choices and this is about him not me. I said I have faith that he can change his path and figure this out. With that I got a barrage of cussing and name calling and "I don't care about anything but myself " and he has no family and we have never helped him.

Boy-- the drugs fried his brain because we have helped him(enabled) all his life and that is the problem. Now that we refuse to do it anymore--he is lost and can't function as usual. He sent me a text yesterday saying " his life is beyond repair".

I know what we are doing is the right thing and necessary if we are ever to be able to stop this horrible cycle. It is so difficult and I still have to force myself to not get upset over his attacks. He says we never give him advice or parental guidance, but when I suggest things to do or services to use --he cusses and says I am stupid and clueless!

I pray for all of us going through this! Do you think he is withdrawing and can't buy drugs or is just venting because he has to step up to the plate after all these years?

Lori

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Posted: June 8, 2017, 7:46 PM


Posts: 179
Joined: August 18, 2016



Hry, Lori! Sorry to hear that your son is still deep in the trenches! It is certainly possible to use without money, but the more likely scenario is that he has no money because the little bit he can scrape up is spent on drugs.

I do not know if you have ever sat down with him during one of his calm times and ask him exactly what he thinks you did not help him with? Is he holding onto something from years ago that he feels slighted about or is it just because he doesn't want to work for the creature comforts we all work to have?

It might be cathartic to you to sit down and write out everything you have done over the years to help him. List every bill you ever paid (and the amount), list any rooms or apartments you helped him rnt either with money or as a co-signer. Write down everyhting you can think of, phone calls you made on his behalf, helping with legal trouble etc. List everything you can remember. Carry that list with you and if he starts on the "you never help me" you can look at this list in black and white. It will give you some strenth when you are feeling guilt over where he is in life.

If he is ever with you and starts up, I would consider showing it to him. It might make him mad, because reality is a b****! But, it may start to open his eyes to what he has been given and how he, and he alone, has squandered the opportunities you have helped him with.

If he mentions that his brother has it so good, remind him that he is lucky to bnot be in a wheelchair. His brother is also a minor, where your other son is a middle aged man.

I do not know whether he will learn from any of it, but as long as we have breath in us, we have the capacity to change!

In no circumstance should you try to discuss anything if he is angry. If he calls you names or says "you are an a******". end the concersation. A simple I will not tolerate the swearing. If you want to continue this when you calm down, I will be available to talk (add the day and time here)., then hang up! If he calls before the time you specified, simply say, I told you I wold be available at (whatever time you chose). I hope to hear from you then. THEN HANG UP!

You do not have to be available every time your phone rings. Your life is important too!
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Posted: June 8, 2017, 9:10 PM


Posts: 108
Joined: November 2, 2016



I have nothing to add. Great advice. Just wanted to offer my support. My son does this to me and it is not OUR problem. It is some disorder they have.

He knows the truth, but his emotions/addiction make him inappropriate.

Hang in there! Your son is way old enough to figure this out. Most kids move out and start their own lives. I was partially on my own when I was 18, and totally on my own by 21.

The problem is the addiction. The addiction rules their life and they revolve around it.

Hugs. I know it is not easy!
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Posted: June 9, 2017, 8:16 AM


Posts: 812
Joined: June 27, 2016



the only thing I can suggest is that you tell him he can park the car at your house. you take the keys. even take the insurance off. he can have the privilege of using the bathroom and having a few meals. provided that he go to social services and what ever appropriate programs will help a person in his situation. he can still live in the car, but on your property. he has to act like a human being. if he does not like that he can walk off on his own, without the car. I know this is a complicated option if he is not going to be compliant. kind of tough to pull off - he would feel like a dog sleeping in the garage if you didnt let him sleep inside.... idk if it is possible to have him so close without there being problems... too close for comfort. but better than getting tickets and washing in a gas station.
the dogs would all have to learn to get along too!

and - you would not spend extra $$ on him... just give him a safe place to park.

if he does not like this option, then its not your fault.

I re-read your last post - this wont work if he comes to your home and berates you every day.

he needs to put up the white flag of surrender. and if you do give him this option it has to be clear that the car stays at your house. he leaves without it. and without the dogs. no need to use them as a threat. perhaps they can somehow stay with you. or a foster person temporarily.





This post has been edited by NyToFlorida on June 9, 2017, 8:21 AM
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Posted: June 9, 2017, 9:36 AM


Posts: 812
Joined: June 27, 2016



"Can they be on drugs with no money?" I have wondered this too at times w my son when he was living away from home.... I think if they have a short break from the drugs, the mental behaviors are still there for a long time - months. so a person might not have the drugs in their system, but are still acting like it, because that is the pattern of their behavior. the behavior is what they have learned to act like for the past so many years. their level of daily activity and thought patterns have been on a pretty low scale for a long time.

when my son went to live w his sister - he had trouble w panic attacks and socially fitting in and feeling good about himself. to the point of tears. that he felt like a moron around her friends bc he had nothing to say in a conversation. over the 4 months (without drugs) he became more comfortable.



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Posted: June 9, 2017, 6:09 PM


Posts: 432
Joined: August 4, 2015



Lori,
Can they be on drugs with no money? Absolutely! My son has no job, is crashing on someone's couch right now, no car, nothing... But he gets heroin and cocaine every day. He says he hustles every day. I'm not street smart enough to know what exactly that means but I do know one thing that's done. They look for cash receipts outside of stores and basically collect them. They'll look for items that are easy to steal and then they'll return them with the receipt they found, to get the cash. They may say they have no money and I guess that's true because any money they "hustle" or steal will get spent on drugs.
Lori, even if your son isn't spending it on drugs, he should still be able to buy his own gas and live on his own at this stage in his life. Don't take on his problems. My son says the same thing....that I don't understand or have a clue what it's like to be him.
Hugs


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Michelle
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Posted: June 9, 2017, 6:48 PM


Posts: 478
Joined: April 4, 2016



I have to join the choir, Lori . . . from what I saw of Jill and her leach of a boyfriend . . .Hell yes it is possible to be on drugs with no money and no job!!

Jill's boyfriend didn't have a job . . .shoot . . .he didn't have his birth certificate or social security card to get a job . . .and even if he did have these documents, who in their right mind would hire someone with jail tattoos all over their face? He got his food, cig money, and drug money by mooching off of Jill.

My daughter, on the other hand, when she got done pawning everything that her dad, she and I had . . . then she moved on to getting money from my debit & credit cards. I was just reading some texts on her phone the other day . . .she also sold her meds. She was prescribed Adderall and some more stuff. When all else failed . . . she'd either go and panhandle . . . or worse yet . . . prostitute herself. And if none of that was an option, some dealers are willing to extend credit. Addicts are very creative when they need to be.

He has more excuses than a few as to why he can't help himself. I'll renew my offer for the dogs. Smile. Seriously, I'm sure that someone would board them . . . maybe even you . . . if he was serious about trying to get himself together. But it sounds like he is trying to play on your "guilts". Don't let him play you like that. None of us are perfect parents . . . but we all have loved . . . and sacrificed . . .and given the very best we had to offer our kids. Can you turn the tables on him? Rather than even entertain the guilt-trip, ask him to forgive you if you hurt or disappointed him. Tell him that that was not your intent . . . but you are asking him to forgive you. This may knock him for a loop . . .it will also take out the venom in what he was trying to do . . . manipulate you. Hmmmm . . . just a thought.

Sending hugs . . . I know this isn't easy. Continue to be kind to yourself . . . continue to be strong.

Lynn
xoxo
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Posted: June 10, 2017, 3:19 PM


Posts: 179
Joined: August 18, 2016



@Lori...Someone mentioned abover perhaps letting him park the car in your yard and you removing the insurance and perhaps letting him shower and have a few meals. I BEG YOU DO NOT DO THIS!!!!

That would be the absolute epitome of enabling! He has done nothing to help himself and has continuously called you names such as stupid a-hole, b****, the "c" word and other choice words. He has spent time "slam-texting" you with text after text of why his life is so rotten and how he isn't responsible and you are! Letting him anywhere on your property is, in fact, rewarding him for treating you like crap!

I know some might not see the suggestion as "enabling", but it is on two fronts. The first being a man in his fourties needs to be responsible for his own life! It is hard, some days it sucks, but it is a responsibility we all have to take in adulthood...responsibility for oneself.

On the second front, the suggestion would elevate his standard of living, because he would now be able to shower, eat and have a place for his dogs to run around. I have made this line my golden rule of enabling. "Do NOT reward bad behavior" and "we teach people how to treat us".

After all of his emotional vomit he has heaved your way, you do not want to reward that behavior with a raise in his standard of living. He will have a better standard of living when he works for them (as we all must) AND his life will improve when he learns his toxic behavior is getting him nowhere!

I think offering what was mentioned is the equivalent of a toddler flipping out in the store, screaming until they puke and then taking them by the hand and saying "let's go get ice cream to make you feel better!" Again, Do not reward bad behavior...rewarding bad behavior=enabling

You have done an amazing job with the not enabling and I know it is frustrating to watch him continuously do this kind of stuff. My mom said of my active addiction that she could not understand how an intelligent girl, who did well in school and in life could NOT see her life(my life) spinning down the toilet!

I honestly didn't see it for a long time. Drugs really changes our perceptions and reality, but truth be told, in my case anyway, My perceptions of situations and people and my reality had been skewed since my early teen years. I suffered an eating disorder throughout high school and the thinking in someone eating disordered mirrors the thinking and behavior of an addict. I know there is a lot of talk about addiction being a brain disease, and I agree. However, I absolutely think there is a behavioral/learning component of addiction too. I have said it many times that addiction has very little to do with the substance and EVERYTHING to do with our thoughts, behaviors and how we process our feelings. While drug addiction is usually the most visual and dramatic (along with allcohol), anything from gambling to porn to food etc can be just as disruptive and deadly and it is not disruptive because of the substance we use, it is because our thinking patterns and our ability to relate honestly with others and to see reality accurately is either undeveloped, under-developed or not present at all.

This is where true recovery takes place. You might notice changes in behavior or how the addict in your life responds to certain things long before you see any de-escalation in drug abuse. For me, I started changing before I put down the drugs and initially while working through some of my crap, my use actually increased for a while. But once, the walls started falling, they were going to tumble all the way. I was sick of fighting my own brain. It was, and at times, is still exhausting!

Anyway, sorry for the tangent...talk about emotional vomit! LOL I hope that things get better for your son, Lori, but I am so proud at the amount of growth you have shown in such a short amount time.( though I am sure it seems long!) So many times growing comes with pain, but it is when it hurts the most that you know it is something you have to go through to get to the peace on the other side! Keep up the good fight! I, for one, am very proud of you!!! ((((Smooch!))))

This post has been edited by lolleedee on June 10, 2017, 3:23 PM
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Posted: June 10, 2017, 4:00 PM


Posts: 812
Joined: June 27, 2016



SORRY - LORI - LOLLEE -- MyBadAdvice --- was just a suggestion. Thanks for others chiming in to say it is not a good suggestion. It could be if lori's son Surrenders and is Compliant.

Lori - you have done a great job at not enabling - take our suggestions - do what feels best for you and your family. perhaps begin a new dialog w your son without making promises of any out come that you do not feel comfortable with.

try to Mirror his words instead of responding to his words.

when he says You are a -------
say back to him -- I am a ------- , I am sorry you feel that way. It is not my intention to hurt you.

something like that. and reinforce social services


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Posted: June 10, 2017, 6:34 PM


Posts: 386
Joined: August 28, 2016



Lollee

No worries--I would never let him live in my driveway. He has no intention of changing or bettering himself at this time and he would only be resentful of us and his brother being inside in A.C. and a comfy bed. He would just want more and more. Our house would be open for theft from him and he would know when we are gone.

He uses his dogs as an excuse to keep from working or using services like Salvation Army ,because he can't leave dogs in a hot car and services won't let him have dogs. He can't take care of himself let alone provide or care for two dogs!

I will not go back or be an enabler any longer. I may not like the outcome of all this, but I cannot and will not return to the way it was! I think he is finally getting that message and I am sure he will give it another try, but it won't do any good!

Lollee --you give me strength and your posts are so helpful! Smooches back at ya!!!

NY--I know you are trying to make suggestions and be supportive and I appreciate it! We all have different circumstances and just have to take some suggestions and leave some, but we are all here for each other and that's the important thing! --HUGS to you !


Lori

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Posted: June 10, 2017, 10:43 PM


Posts: 179
Joined: August 18, 2016



@NY..no apologies! That is what this place is about. Batting around ideas trying to fight the beast of addition! It could definitely be something down the road IF behavior changes!

I hope that he sees the light, Lori! I can see this thing from both sides..active addiction and recovery. I remember being in the thick of it and being so sick of the whole thing but I just couldn't let it go. Even though it sucked, I found comfort in the predictability of my using life. I was ok with my sole focus being on finding money and getting my fix. I was also doctor shopping and forging scripts and God knows how I was never arrested! There but for the grace of God, go I.

Every bit of my life hurt, but I thought the drugs were the only think allowing me to cope, when in fact, it was what was making me unable tp take part in reality. This really is a disease of thinking and interpretation of reality.

I am so glad that you are sticking to your boundries, Lori. Another wonderful phrase I say often is "say what you mean and mean what you say!" It is good advice for parnting toddlers...and addicts! (who often have some very "toddler-esq" qualities! LOL)

Any and everyone who is in the trenches of addiction with a loved one needs to give themselves permisiion..permisiion to not be verbally berated, permission to always be spoken to with respect, permission to enjoy life, hobbies and friends and not devote every waking moment to the addicted love one.

If love and attention cured addiction, none of our loved ones would be addicted. I got to the point where I had nothing left..and suddenly the pain of getting better was WAY less than the pain of living in active addiction. I hope everyone who is suffering gets to that point sooner, rather than later. Until then all anyone can do is lay down and enforce appropriate boundries and try to live and enjoy everyday.
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Posted: June 11, 2017, 9:57 PM


Posts: 3
Joined: June 11, 2017



I feel for you with what you are going through. They will do anything for drugs. They can absolutely be on drugs with no money. I want you to hear this from a woman who was a child when her older brother went through this. My mother always let him back in the house. He gave me scabies in 1st grade from being filthy, stole everything, one time he brought a girl around who got so high with him she cut his fingers off. No matter what hateful thing they say YOU ARE NOT BEING SELFISH THEY are, they have no regard for their own life let alone yours. Protect yourself and your son. You are doing the right thing, you are amazing and brave, and a wonderful mother. I wish my mother had your strength.
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Posted: June 12, 2017, 3:18 PM


Posts: 230
Joined: October 25, 2016



My son feels like we are obligated to help him because we are family and family members never say 'no'. I think your son is a lot like mine. It is only after years of helping that we started saying no. We didn't just ignore his problems or his need. We tried to help and he had many opportunities to make things better for himself but didn't do it. There has got to be a limit... a time when you just can't do it anymore. It is like flushing money down the toilet ... nothing but an unending circle. They don't see it. Being homeless is a terrible way to live and we can't understand unless we live it. It it terribly hard to get out of that hole they are in but they have to find someway to climb out that doesn't include us. Nothing changes unless something changes. The only thing we can change is our reactions to their many crisis. There is always something terrible going on. They want us to rescue them but what we need to do at this stage in our lives is to focus on rescuing us and having good quality of life while we can. I know it breaks your heart to see your son in this situation. It is very hard but at some point they must figure something out for themselves. Their lives will always be chaos if they don't, whether we are here to help them or not. They, hopefully, have many more years to live after we are gone.

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BUGS
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Posted: June 12, 2017, 3:28 PM


Posts: 230
Joined: October 25, 2016



They can be on drugs with no money. They all stick together. I think some of their problems are that they are into the life style and that the drugs have damaged their minds / thinking process and they have lost their common sense. There is no normal for them. It takes years to recreate a normal and they can't stay off drugs that long. I think after people are on drugs for years it is very hard to get back to a real life no matter how much they want it. That is why they come to us .. they feel out of control but we offer stability. We have the comfort and way of life they really want but can't seem to get.

Thank you Lollee for being the voice of reason. 🙂

This post has been edited by BugginMe on June 12, 2017, 3:30 PM

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Posted: June 12, 2017, 3:42 PM


Posts: 386
Joined: August 28, 2016



I just got a text from him ranting and raving about how everyone in his life and in our family has ripped him off and that is why he is where he is! He blames us and everyone in the family when in fact all of us have taken him in and helped him over the years.

Honestly, he made no sense and was very paranoid about everyone doing him wrong. Said we would read about him in the newspapers. He has threatened this before but he scares me. He said that they are going to probably take his drivers license for no insurance and then his car he lives in because he hasn't paid his car title loan.

He denies drug use and said he will take a pi--s test anytime and ranted and raved. Most of what he said didn't make sense. I pray he isn't flipping out or has paranoid behavior and brain damage from all the years of drug use.

I stopped texting him back as he just got more paranoid and angry. I am glad we live an hour and half away cause he has no money for gas and last week when he came --we gave him no money. So he knows it would be a wasted trip.

I fear for him and pray he doesn't do something really stupid. I know it is out of my hands and I have no control.

I have read about drug rages and it is scary stuff!

Lori


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Posted: June 12, 2017, 3:42 PM


Posts: 432
Joined: August 4, 2015



Bugs,
You're so right. They can't do normal at all. Just the other day, my son asked if I could give him a couple of bucks. I said, no, you know I can't. He then proceeded to ask me, "how come everyone is always broke"? I said, "your dad and I pay our bills, give ourselves a roof over our head, buy groceries and then any money left over is extra, which isn't much right now because I'm off work". His response was classic..."I could never live like that". I just said, "no, you probably can't". I'll remind you that my son is almost 31 years old.
Hugs

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Michelle
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Posted: June 13, 2017, 9:31 PM


Posts: 812
Joined: June 27, 2016



LOL Bugs - I have had a similar conversation in the past w my son. I can almost hear my son replying, "that sounds horrible"



This post has been edited by NyToFlorida on June 13, 2017, 9:43 PM
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Posted: June 14, 2017, 4:54 PM


Posts: 179
Joined: August 18, 2016



@Lori...I might be wrong (it certainly wouldn't be the first time! lol), but I actually see this last rant as a possible good thing. He has been hitting your non-enabling wall for a bit of time now and he doesn't quite know what to do.

I know in my acive addiction, when my family got into recovery and I kept hitting their "wall", I would pull out all the stops! Anything that got me anything in the past would be tried...and tried in a loud and dramatic way!

Perhaps he is at the precipice...when the things that used to work don't work and he is left in confusion. So..he pulls out all the stops on previous behavior..he was ranting, swearing, yelling, blaming, guilting you with the loss of his car etc. It's like the finale of a fireworks display. It's all big and loud and certainly colorful! And if he truly has hit the precipice, then like the firework finally, the dust will clear, all will get quiet and he will be left with the choice...change or forever be miserable!!!

Call methe eternal optimist, but change is often followed by a fallout of gargantuan magnitude! Let's hope this is where he is!

I can't imagine how much your heart hurts, but I am so glad that you are holding to your boundries! We all deserve to be treated with respect! I'm rooting for you!
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Posted: June 15, 2017, 10:13 AM


Posts: 386
Joined: August 28, 2016



Lollee--

I think you have hit the nail on the head! Haven't heard anything since that last rant two days ago. Am expecting a call or text that he has been arrested or they have repossessed his car and what should he do with the dogs.
I am not taking his dogs ,although, I feel so bad for them, but he isn't caring properly for them anyway. Our senior dog is not dog friendly and we are currently renting a home that only allows one dog. Besides his dogs are not socialized and only go to him plus they are flea infested and have no shots.

He is so out of touch with reality. He sent pic of camper off craigslist for sale for $850 and said "I never get a break"-- Sh---t!!! Guess he thought we would buy it for him???? A while back he said if he could get a camper everything would be fine cause he would have a place to stay. I said --it costs to park it somewhere and you have no money plus your car can't hold up with the high mileage and bad brakes. He said it was fine and he would park it overnight at Walmart! I said they won't allow that and he said oh yes they do it all the time. He just doesn't get the big picture.

I am convinced he stole copper from his last job and that is how he came up all of a sudden with the $475 to pay on his car title loan. I think they fired him and he tried to tell us that it was the owner's grandson that stole the copper.

Only a matter of time to this all implodes and I think you are absolutely right it will be gargantuan!!!

Thanks for the support!! (((HUGS))) Lori
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Posted: June 15, 2017, 11:57 AM


Posts: 230
Joined: October 25, 2016



Buying a trailer or camper sounded like a good inexpensive solution to our son’s living arrangement so we bought one. Nothing good came from that investment. Our son was supposed to pay us small installments (we had a written loan agreement) and take care of all associated bills / repairs. He didn’t pay us anything…not one penny for 3 years. He couldn’t keep a job to pay the bills so we paid them. He kept promising that he would be able to take over soon…soon…soon. We were invested in his trailer and hoped he would stabilize…maybe give us some of our money back. He lost his car so had no transportation. He lost his animals. He got evicted from the lot he rented because of his behavior (drug use) but couldn’t move the trailer. He tore the thing up inside so no one wanted to buy it. He finally sold it very cheap and still gave us nothing.

Now he has no place to live and no job. He wanted to live with us and couldn’t understand why we said no. This past year he has been in homeless shelters on and off. I think he went to at least one rehab. He was recently staying with a friend but apparently got kicked out last weekend. He was calling and texting for money for his ‘emergency’. We didn’t send any and I haven’t heard from him since so I am not sure of his situation. I want to text him to find out how things worked out but it will just open me up for blame and name calling because we sent no money. I am not even sure the story he was telling was true. It could have just been a way to get money.

They have to be able to help themselves some or our best efforts to help them are wasted. It is an appealing idea to get your son an easy place to live so you know he is safe and comfortable but don’t do it. How will he be able to pay for the associated costs and upkeep of a trailer when he can’t even buy gas? Walmart will not let him part there so he will need lot rent. Where is their common sense. They don’t think, they have no plan, they just want us to spend more of our money. Mom and Dad can fix it...


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BUGS
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