Synthetic Weed
Posted: March 12, 2013, 4:02 PM

Dear Allison, tog, dac, glassrose, nelly, josh, and others

The main thing I want to say is GO WELL YOU GOOD THINGS! Your writing, even the really dark stuff, is nothing less than inspirational! I hope this forum is read by more people. There may be many readers/lurkers, like me, who are not so able to so clearly communicate what they are going through on a daily basis. The hard work of you guys is not going unappreciated!

I just want to write and say that I was hooked on this stuff for a short while. It was very minor compared to you guys. I recently found myself unemployed and I was pretty chuffed when I first found this synth stuff because it is so easy to get and it's "legal" - that seems to make a big psychological difference - less guilt. I started by having just a couple of little joints in the evenings, using about 2 g a week. I always avoided smoking in the mornings because I hate feeling foggy in the afternoon, and I quickly noticed that this stuff completely sapped my energy and left me without a thought in my head. AFter 3 months though, I was smoking first thing in the morning, and spending the day lounging on the couch doing nothing else but chuffing the day away. I would go through a 7 g bag in a few days. I can't believe the large amounts you guys have been talking about, but I can see, and I could see then, how quickly tolerance grows and that my usage was getting out of control. I was depressed, passive and resentful. I wanted to stop, but I hadn't reached rock bottom and I was still actually thinking that there were some good points about it. But I found this forum, and my blood ran cold! I stopped totally - this was about a month ago now - and it was you guys especially josh (see beginning of thread) who inspired me. Because my use was light compared to others here, I had no withdrawals beyond a couple of restless nights and some hissy fits, but the positives of quitting are monumental. For a start, my relentless self-loathing has all but gone, mainly because I know now that "I don't touch that s***" - I don't care how "legal" etc it is. I have seen enough of it to know how evil it is. I am clean. My motivation has returned. A bunch of dodginess that I used to have to hide from people ( I went for weeks avoiding people and ignoring friends) has now disappeared. A shame has gone - I can look people in the eye. There is a boundary there now which gets stronger by the day. My "artistic appreciation" shall we call it - the main reason I used to smoke - to enjoy music and drawing more - has not reduced since I stopped. It has got deeper. Last night I played the piano for hours with my eyes closed - when I opened them the sun had gone down. I have not often been transported like that, and certainly NEVER with weed (synth or not), because at the back of my mind I was always anticipating the next toot.

That's my experience. I have used everything except coke in the past and I can tell you that for me this stuff was psychologically harder to kick than heroin, maybe because of how easy it is to get. Now I have a bit of distance on it, and I can't tell you how free I feel as a result. But I wanted to write and give you my love and encouragement and remind you if you are struggling - and I know you already know this - that ALL THIS WILL PASS, and YOU WILL GET BETTER. YOU CAN DO IT! Focus that irritability on the evil f**ks that DESIGN and MAKE this stuff and get rich pretending it is all cool and evil-free. NO ONE knows what the full effects of this stuff are yet - that post about the hosepipe full of black tar was a brilliant description of what it will be doing to the lungs, and what about the brain or unborn children? This stuff has its own unprecedented and dark power over humans, but HUMANS ARE MUCH MUCH MORE POWERFUL! EACH AND EVERY HUMAN IS!! WE KNOW AN OLDER MAGIC!!

Apologies for the long post, and it still doesn't do justice to the gratitude I feel towards the people who have made this thread what it is. You are doing some very great and hard work here. I can only say once again THANK YOU, and HANG IN THERE!!!
Posted: March 12, 2013, 5:48 PM

man.. I hope it's just paranoia making me say this, but, so help me god if there is someone out there scanning these pages for information or inspiration for some ground breaking expose book...

If some book comes out any time in the near future and anything mentioned by anybody in this forum is plagiarized or sold for blood money I will hunt you down and cut you.
Posted: March 13, 2013, 12:24 AM

Posts: 474
Joined: February 24, 2013

Allison you mentioned writing. Thats what got me into this stuff last year. I found I was ' inspired' to write only I ended up somehow in the comedy clubs. I actually went on 7-8 times and seemed to always relapse at that point. It was just too much fun to get on stage and rant about anything and everything. If you cant tell by now - I LIKE TO TALK!! Actually got some good laughs just from some of my more shocking jokes. But thats another thing , I Learned a lot and I wondered at that time about an inconsistency in my thinking. Most of what I say against this is negative and I convince myself that there is nothing positive to be found - but is that true? I did some things that had very positive effects on my mood and had me in a happy state of mind. After yesterday's 'compromise' I will call it , some of those feelings were just too clear to ignore and in the spirit of trying to be as honest as possible I have to admit that there is a short term positve in just the amount of smiles I had in one day.

I keep going back to last year because this year is running almost parallel to where I was at this same time - early Spring. This is when the pressure is on me the most - I have a mowing business, and I almost always quit because everything that can go wrong usually does at the beginning of the year - I have to stay focused. I say almost because I didnt/wasnt able to quit last year. I got to that same 10-14 day mark I was at just yesterday morning and I get tired of being angry/depressed and unproductive. Its like my brain forgot how to get into a good mood without being high. I remember watching a show about Jose Canseco and steroids, Jose was down, depressed, and apparently so was his d*** because he couldnt get it up all because his body had 'forgot' how to make testosterone after 20 years of taking roids. Have I/we done the same things in our desire to feel good. It seems everyone who does a drug likes the euphoria - only if you are covering some pain or pressure this 'like' becomes a need. If you feed this need for too long does the brain 'forget' how to motivate us since our natural reward mechanism(dopamine) has been circumvented for so long the brain says "f*** it" why bother. I'll just make him so miserable he cant stand to be in his own skin (I think I wrote that a few days ago) and he'll cave. After all, if this stuff really is even just 20 times stronger than pot isnt that still really, really strong? The brain looks at the comparitively small reward for - say, exercise, and the result is little or no motivation to do anything but get high because the other is just too small to mess with.

Then I did what I did yesterday and I cant ignore how much more I 'wanted' to do things again. I havent been up on stage in 3 mos but all of the sudden I was in the mood to do that again and immediately began writing on an old newspaper because thats all I had to write on and all the ideas were just coming at me so fast! I wanted to and did reach out and apologize as much as I could and even began to write an email to my daughter on top of the text apology. She just happens to be a psychology major with just two months left to get her degree and her input is always helpful. Aren't these positives? That desire to connect...share.....make things right? IF only, it could just stop at just , say , 3 hits a day would that be a problem?? Just a little at night to help sleep/create/escape - if it was possible for someone to do that would it be a problem? I am like that with alcohol - only drink in a social setting. Have a formula, rules to follow, I havent had more than 4 drinks in one sitting and this - maybe - 6 times last year. When I drink, I have a shot of tequila , and 2 beers, all in about 15 min. If I am going onstage - 3 beers. 2 Hours later when I drive home even if I get pulled over in the parking lot I will be OK. So what if I could do that with the synthetic?

That's the lie I told myself last year. It started off well, but like always, once a day didnt last but for , maybe, 2 weeks. The one time I did it? To sleep once I woke up after my 2 hour crash/nap. Of course , the more tired I got and the more I 'needed' this to fall back to sleep it wasnt long before it was back to night and day use. Only I did need to stay functional - I stayed at this 15 hit a day level until I later got arrested ( early posts ) . Once I got out of jail, no one bailed me out, I was pissed off at the world and immediately went out and picked up to an all day every day type of use. I'd had it being good - f*** everyone - I've paid my dues - I'm done listening...You think it sucks going through withdrawals now, try doing it in the rubber room at the local county jail - butt naked, no toilet, a/c running nonstop and you sleep on a concrete floor naked , light never goes off , with not one but two kidney stones to deal with (dehydration brings these on) and young 20 something cops 'barking' at you the entire time because you entered their jail trying to make them laugh and they just "knew" you were on 'something' so they then saw it as their 'job' to mistreat you as much as possible because they hate junkies - especially smart-assed junkies. Only it had been almost 2 hours from my last hit to actually getting booked so I was just in a good mood - not really high at all.

Like Andy Dufrain from the Shawshank Redemption - that first night of jail ever was the "longest night of my life". Only Andy's longest night was from having become the bull q****'s object of affection. Mine, thank GOD, was just from being forced to detox in the rubber room while some f***ed up hispanic kept asking me to come to the door so he could see my d***! Once I let go with a stream of profanity that would make some of my talk here look almost clean - at full volume and intensity..... I was definitely NOT getting out til they HAD to let me out. NOT once in 72 hours!!

Damn , didnt mean to go on this long - but the long posts seem to help not just me understand this thing , but others as well and isnt that the point. To learn as much as we can about not just the down side , but some of the reasons we got into the drugs in the first place?

So I went to the comedy club tonight in months. The place where I buy my stuff? Yeah, you guessed it - on the way. So....made the same $10 mistake ( had a lighter this time) and got high just for the comedy club.....I know, another lie, but my ability to b.s. myself in these moments truly astonishes me because I know better! But do I? Like yesterday, I threw out the entire bag after only maybe 5 hits this time. I absolutely cant control my use when I have it so I made this agreement with myself to just throw the whole thing away. Only I kept the hitter - and it has one last hit - for sleep - HA!. WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING DONT I LEARN ANYTHING!! Only I know what I am doing - rationalizing the whole ' just a little' agument all over again. But one of my problems before was just compulsively taking hits when it was available until the bag was gone - then get another bag. Now its, If I 'wean' myself by having short relapses - but throw away everything but one hit could I get away with this just every 2 or three days at just 5-6 hits at a time? Sounds too good to be true - but , if you read how i felt yesterday is that any better? Again, just being honest in an attempt to figure this thing out - I dont 'plan' on doing this again till maybe the weekend and I am committed to not bringing any more home. And this is silly but this is the crux of the argument. I am less isolated when I get high ' just a little' and by throwing everything away I can honestly look anyone who asks in the eye and say" I threw everything away the last time I smoked - I have nothing " . If they ask How long ago it was this wont work - but that's a good thing , that will force accountability because I WONT lie about the use.. I just wont volunteer the information - that's all.

Please give me the argument that defeats this 'moderation' lie.. IF it were possible to do - should it be something I should even consider??

This post has been edited by DAC on March 13, 2013, 12:31 AM
Posted: March 13, 2013, 1:12 AM

Posts: 474
Joined: February 24, 2013

Hey allison

- the comment about the book thing . I know that feeling - very intense, focused , passionate, pissed off/emotional - yeah! Yesterday I was in the same boat. It's like , when high - I cant seem to focus - but the creativity is off the charts! When I'm in that two to three week period where you are from spice - I focus/dwell/obsess on every little thing. AND NO, I dont think weed is a bad compromise - it is NOT physically addicting ! I considered pot too, I just didnt bother because of the hassle of buying it! (A 1g bag of synthetic is also very easy to toss - even after one hit!) However, I found myself getting nothing done straight the same way I did when I got high all the time - Wish I knew the answer to that one.

But that's just me. I've been in a funk all winter because last year was a bad year due to drought. I had under $20 to my name as of this morning. Once I get going, and I get to around a month I usually kick it in gear and get a lot done. I put stuff off a lot while stoned but I also put stuff off when I have no excuse at all - Thats never been my style. Always been very productive - so there is definitely more to the mental war than the physical one. If M.D.'s guess about which anti-depressant to use when those are standardized dosages then how can anyone possibly know the effect synthetic has on brain chemistry when there are so many different brands,chemicals,and levels of dosage around the country/world? So staying away completely is still the smartest thing to do. I have one hit in a one hitter. I would love to get to the point where I could put the thing in a glass case like the ex smokers do with their last cigarette! The old, "just in case of emergency - break glass" will-power-prover - and NEVER break the glass! That's when I know I'll have this thing kicked the a** for good!

Just not there yet.....

This post has been edited by DAC on March 13, 2013, 1:35 AM
Posted: March 13, 2013, 1:43 AM

Posts: 474
Joined: February 24, 2013

and pete

love the long posts. How long you been able to stay away from smoking this stuff? If the creativity comes back even better after a couple months? or so that is encouraging.

takes away one of my arguments FOR it
Posted: March 13, 2013, 2:23 AM

Read this article... I would be willing to bet he had recently quit synthetic.
Posted: March 13, 2013, 5:31 AM

Posts: 109
Joined: February 28, 2013

the cctv footage on that link of the man in Manchester stabbing cars on a garage forecourt scares me.

it's all very well being able to rationalise your anger when withdrawing from synthetic cannabis, and stay away from people and act safely .... but what about people who don't have that capacity to rationalise?

i am a big 'libertarian' if you will, heck i'm a big advocate of 'mind expansion' via psychoactive drugs ... look at the creativity that dac feels with his comedy ... that isn't pretend, he experiences it! BUT ... i don't want me, my loved ones, or anybody, to be harmed by a crazed violent person on withdrawls from cheap, legal smoking mixtures they bought in a high street shop and FRANKLY i believe the government should do something about it as quickly as possible (i know that may not relate to that incident, but i can REALLY see how it could).


it's sunny here and i am sober and i feel not too bad.

tog xxx
Posted: March 13, 2013, 8:19 AM

Yeah I'm not saying for sure it had anything to do with this, god knows we have no shortage of deranged psychopaths. But until people figure this s*** out, I bet you are going to start noticing a pattern here in some of these stories...
Undiagnosed mental issues, not sleeping or eating, etc. is a clue and what is scarier is not one person who commented on that page even mentioned it as a possibility. Just fry the b******. Now I know at least one of those people has smoked this stuff before, and perhaps a few have seen someone get clean off of it.. And nobody knows about the fits of rage or the other symptoms associated with detoxing??
Posted: March 13, 2013, 11:20 AM

wow.... so... I'm taking a leap I think, but tog, aren't you in the UK?? Read the comments about this poor girl who wanted to get the word out about synthetic being dangerous.

Drugs still seem to be a much more taboo subject there, I'm assuming... (?) Everyone's reaction basically was, "Well it SAYS not for human consumption!.. moron."

Wow. Staggeringly. Oblivious.
Posted: March 13, 2013, 12:14 PM

Posts: 474
Joined: February 24, 2013

i read that article - did sound like some of the extremes one can go thru so I am here to just pass on more of what I am experiencing mentally right now in the hopes it may help. I dont want to romantasize this stuff or even condone it. This is why I have never stocked up on the synthetic even when abusing all day - and its also why I want no more than one hit in my possession even though I know this is playing with fire. But is it? I still have the hit. Havent smoked anything since 10pm last night and I didnt even start till 7:30 so that doesnt sound that bad - Does it? Am I just all of the sudden delusional because I think I can 'control" this to some extent. Maybe the real truth is what tog and others have said. Until is unavailable it is going to be 'very hard' for someone like me to quit completely. I am a control freak and not being able to motivate myself while straight, although pathetic, is worse than getting just 'a little high'. Yet, I 'didnt' do the last hit. Still have it and I am not even playing mind games about when to smoke it. The plan is to keep it all day and have it at night if I need it for sleep.

Everyone is here to support one another and we all want to hear success stories. But dont addicts relapse some 80% of the time. I want MY story to be a success story, Hell, I feel like a bad role model because I slipped up the last two days and my committment to complete abstinence is for the moment - on hold. But it again goes back to something I read. It had to do with anti-depressants because when I went through this same stuff last year I was in a deep hole as far as depression goes. Situational depression - nothing to do in winter, financial stress, all things that change for me when I start working. Only this was a different kind of depression I didnt understand because it was excacerbated by the withdrawals. I just couldnt believe the withdrawal would last over 2 weeks, and the next time I quit?? - 6 weeks , Yeah! I was still pretty damn depressed even after that long but I think that had more to do with having been arrested for ....what.....everyone?? LOSING MY TEMPER AND YELLING AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS LIKE A CRAZY MAN AT MY WIFE. The worst I did physically was knock a shower door off - I never meant to hurt her. But in my rage I knocked off the door, didnt even see that it hit her, and called her 'too f***ing stupid to understand what I was talking about" and stormed off without an apology. I left her more upset than I had ever seen her!! Sound familiar!! Even then she didnt WANT to go to the police. She just wanted to talk to someone, only the person she went to talk to, a very good friend who had also experienced me while upset, sent her to a shelter where the police got called automatically. She would not have gone to a shelteron her own!! I just felt betrayed, I felt the whole thing was overblown, and it put me in a stubborn mindset where NO ONE was going to reach me. But they were all reacting to my HYPED UP ENERGY and late ANGER. But back to my point ( I know it takes me a while to get to the point so I appreciate your patience).

What I read about the anti-depressants that is influencing my decisions right now can be found to a lesser extent on this site too - although I really looked into this because I know others in my family who are on them and thats what they seemed to suggest for me. You dont have to read very far before it becomes clear that this is very much a "trial by error" approach to find the right medication and dosage. If you get a good doctor - get lucky!! You might find something that will work. They DO work for some people....but more disturbing? The side effects, the moodiness, and the absolute HARD CORE ADDICTION some of these people experience while on them. It is almost a given you cant just go 'cold turkey' with anti-depressants because they will turn your would inside out and make you into , well, what we have all experienced with the rage/depression/moodiness. Almost all anti-depressants have to be 'stepped' down to eliminate this side effect. In some cases this can take months!! So last year that was something I seemed to understand and was smoking less and less until I got put under the overwhelming stress that is my life in the month of late April /early May. But I still didnt understand what I was dealing with and attempted cold turkey again some time that month more out of guilt than anything. Just a recipe for disaster!! Pressure +chemical imbalance + more pressure = BIG f***ING BLOWUP!!!

So I am not looking at this as a slip so much as I am just wondering if the chemicals in this stuff are similiar to the anti-depressants. AGAIN, I tried to quit the same way I quit smoking pot in the past. Quit cold turkey, put it away for a long while, and use it when it wont INTERFERE with my life. The winter is at least 3 months free time with the holidays thrown in on top - I used to love smoking pot during this time of the year. But I have tried repeatedly to do this with the synthetic and it hasnt worked - WHY? Thats what I am attempting to understand right now. IF this is similiar to something that is out there already in how it chemically interacts with the brain , isnt that where I should begin to find the answers? I dont know if they are similiar to anti-depressants, but for me I always saw it as a mood drug. If it came in pill form, was stamped with the RX stamp of approval, would it be similiar to what is already out there??

I dont take anti-depressants , probably never will. They scare me, NO, I scare me!! Just like the guy who started the post - afraidofmyself. If I had a depression med , how long would it be before something bad happened and I wanted to feel better and took more? I know my nature, If I had a zoloft or something like it at some point I would start crushing them up and snorting them to get high!! That is completely f***ed up...but probably true. ALso, I have a cousin who is on them and "suppossedly" he went off them and lashed out at his brother at a family reunion. His brother at the time had 4 small children and this guy lost it and threatened to go "blow up their house with them in it". He blamed it all on the anti-depressants but I grew up with this guy, same age, not a bad person, but has he gone through something similiar because his brain chemistry is now competely screwed up? He even got to the point where he told everyone he had terminal cancer and was going to die. I had relatives coming from out of state to see him because he had lost so much weight, death seemed imminent. That was 2 years ago and still going strong - cancer in remission!! Miraculous recovery? Or a cautionary tale about what a chemical imbalance can really make a person do. I had my suspicions but was never able to confirm them - I know he smoked pot at this time,but what if he was smoking spice as well? On top of the anti-depressants!! If he was, then it is no surprise he turned into such a total f***ing mess!!

Shared experiences, unfortunately, are really all we have to go on with this stuff because so little is known about it. I HATE putting the smoke in my lungs, but the little hose compromise, showed me that most of the bad stuff got stuck to the hose. Only the hose gets really , really disgusting . Condensation causes resin drips, which is akin to spilling bongwater, if you have done this you know how gross this is. But still, better in the tube than in my lungs. Better still? No smoking at all, and despite all these rationalizations , that is still my ultimate goal.

So I will share what I experience from 7:30 on last night. I will try to keep it brief - HAA! Anyway , here goes. The first hit was not as intense as yesterday - tolerance seems to build amazingly fast and it also seems to go away just as fast. The day before, after almost two weeks, I experienced that "too high" feeling that I have heard many others experience the first time they smoked this stuff- all from just ONE hit. Also , the day before , when I did 4 hits within the span of about 30 min - I got so high it scared me into flushing what I had down the toilet - I panicked. So yesterday I took one hit , and there was no panic, I hate to admit but I was almost immediately motivated to go out do some of these things (creatively at least) that I have had all winter to do but just couldnt get done. Now , this past winter I smoked nonstop, so I want to put that out there. I was NOT motivated to do these things when I smoked it every day/all day. Like many of you I WASTED vast amounts of time playing stupid computer games and could not watch even a really good movie without falling asleep. I nodded off all the time because I was in the crash/sleep mode. I still didnt know any better - hadnt found this site yet!

So the first hit lasted well over an hour. But I did 4 more in the next hour and a half and if I had kept the bag? I guarantee I would become quickly obsessed with getting high and going back to my 'every half hour' habit very quickly. So I had to toss it. But to toss it I had to make a 'deal' with my 'inner chemical child' - you all know that child. The one who throws a temper tantrum every time you dont give him the drug he /she wants? I feel I have to at least negotiate with this spoiled f***ing brat because when I dont - the anger turns into depression. And Isn't that what depression really is - Rage turned inward, frozen rage? I've heard it described this way in the past and I think on a chemical level that is exactly what is happening. The deal was the mental stumbling block of 'one last high', especially if I 'need' it to sleep. Only in the past this meant a whole bag, and with what I estimate as 100 hits per gram at the least, that is why that trick has always failed. But what about one hit? Like getting in bed with the devil - you know its not a good thing to do because someone WILL GET f***ED! - and it probably wont be him on the receiving end if you know what I mean.
Posted: March 13, 2013, 12:47 PM

Posts: 474
Joined: February 24, 2013

Went over my character limit - heres the rest!

I made a deal with the 'chemical brat' who seems to dictate my moods, and at least mentally he seems content. But physically, I've had nothing since 10p.m yesterday, came home, wrote about it. Stayed up until 4:30 a.m. with no desire to sleep. Layed down anyway, watched TV for the first time all day - South park, one of my favorites. Only like many of you have stated before, as soon as you try and watch something, enjoy something, it seems to distract the mind just enough that you finally realize how tired you are and you just nod off. Without the distraction, my mind just wont shut up - and even thought the drug causes this if I had smoked my last hit - THAT, would have distracted me and put me to sleep - at least in the short term.

Last year I wrote about the same experiences and remarked that at one time I had as little as 3 hours sleep in a 3 day period. I was amazed I could go on for so long with so little sleep! Now , this scares me. I slept from 5:30 - 7 and thats it!! Had to get up at 8 anyways to take the girls out to the bus stop and I just layed there. I WAS SO TIRED!! I didnt get any sleep the night before either ( wrote about that too) ,yet even when I went back to bed after getting up - still totally exhausted , I just layed there for another 2 hours unable to sleep. Just layed next to my wife, put my arm around her, and pretended to sleep because I just felt like holding her. For the record, I have been with my wife for almost 24 years now and I love her even more now than the day I married her - no s***. Told that to my anger management class/counselor last night and he disagreed - BUT THATS A WHOLE OTHER STORY - and I really am trying to wrap this up so I'll save that for later.... maybe.

Another thing, I have been s***ting hot lava since yesterday. I've actually gone to the bathroom so many times and wiped so much that my a****** is sore!

I'm a sore a****** in more ways than one though!

The plan is to not take my last hit - IF I do at all, until at least 11p.m. That way I cant go out and get more because the gas station I buy it at will be closed and I will have to wait until tomorrow.

More mind games!!

I also got carded last time I bought - never happened before. Would they bother with that if it was completely illegal to begin with. Weve all seen DEA and STATE COMPLIANT on the bags. Not sure what to think anymore about that!

What do I do when I cant sleep - I write. The evidence is all over this post, it helps me process and hopefully one day understand this thing enough to where I can transition out of this without all the negatives to my productivity. I've been into the Eagles a lot lately. I recently watched a documentary on them and I know which songs are about drug use. Joe Walsh was addicted to the point it would have killed him if he kept it up - his own words. But he is a success story - he did the rehab thing and never went back.

But he wrote this song while high - can you relate?

Joe Walsh - The Confessor

If you look at your reflection in the bottom of the well (addiction)
What you see is only on the surface
If you try to see the meaning - hidden underneath
The measure of the depth can be deceiving... The bottom has a rocky reputation!

On the bottom words are shallow - on the surface talk is cheap
You can only judge the distance by the company you keep.

In the eyes of the confessor......

watch the video on you tube - hits a little too close to home for me!

This post has been edited by DAC on March 13, 2013, 1:19 PM
Posted: March 13, 2013, 2:28 PM

Posts: 474
Joined: February 24, 2013


OK - here goes

It wasnt 15 minutes after i stopped writing - fully intent to wait to do that last hit until tonight then, wow, I thought.... Who am kidding? The good part of quitting is knowing you are done - finished for good, never going back! I have said these words, meant them , and yet still engage in that cumpulsive behaviour that always seems to bring me trouble.

But does it?

IF I had that answer I wouldnt be in the position I'm in right now. Last year I thought this thought , since I listen to the radio all day when I mow anyway - Why not start calling some of these shows out of the blue. I only had a couple of targets and I think the goal was to just call them up and see if I could hit it off when them on the air. With social media making this relatively easy I began to try and set up my phone calls with emails - they rambled like my posts here. You see, I ALWAYS quit smoking when mowing. Dont mix business with pleasure. One of the unique things about the mowing business was that it 'allowed' me to indulge my habit (If I even had one at the time) in accordance with my ALL-or- NOTHING approach I seem to have about life without any serious consequences .

Until last year

I mixed the two for the first time in a long time and realized how much I LIKED my life better when I could just 'occasionally' get high. But something always seems to get out of whack with this theory and just about every time I end up back to continuous use. Thats always been the killer - I cant just seem to be content with once a day if it is around. So I had the idea of being able to see it but still not want it - we've all told ourselves this lie. But my chemical child isnt just ill-tempered and demanding, he is also very compulsive!! So I am back to where I just dont want the comfort of knowing its here. That whole, be able to look someone in the eyes thing and say I HAVE NOTHING thing gets defeated if I KNOW I can get high any time I want. So I should just throw it all away right! Thats the only thing that will work - keep not even a single hit because it betrays the committment.

So I threw it away......but you know what happenned next? I ' put' it in the trash instead of DESTROYING it or LOSING it or FLUSHING it . Meaning, I could just go dig it out of the trash and not waste the last hit - which, sadly, is what I did... Only , not exactly, I had the idea of writing while high - something I had not done yet. WHy? Because at some point I will probably point my mom to this site as an effort of final accountability. She can see me going thru withdrawal, the mind games I play with myself, and might even start sounding off on her own to me by writing back.. But not for a while. I have to have this well in the past ( a month?) before I really want to do that. If I dont, I'll suck it up, and either print off my posts or just let her see it in real time. And NO! that wont shut me up or make me secretive because she will be the only one amongst family and friends who will see it. But, If she knows I still do it - I WONT ever be high around her.

These are the kinds of ideas I get when I get stoned. By the way, the one hit actually turned into two but I am COMPLETELY OUT now! Not going back....At least today - I know I can do that. In theory I dont ever want to go back , not sure if I'm there yet, but I wont KEEP ANY AROUND. It is a pain in the a** to drive an hour to get more and very soon I will not be able to make sense out of that should I slip more. But this is now 3 days in a row, even if it was only a total of 16 hits! That used to be what I would smoke by noon every day! I know an exception I will probably make is to go to a comedy club once a week ( at most) because the two seem to just go so well together. But I dont even know if a once / week thing is even possible. I just wont keep it around to cumpulsively do as much as I want - thats my starting point! I cant believe the small amounts that I have done recently will cause the severe things I was feeling just a couple days ago. And if it does? Until they outlaw it I can just drive and get more ' wasting' a whole $7 each time anyway so at least I can quiet the anger which is right now my main and immediate goal.

But here I am analyzing motive when what I wanted to do was explain the high while I actually felt it - trying to write fast to get this out but want to post this before my computer shuts down or something (happened the other day).

So I'll be back..
Posted: March 13, 2013, 4:11 PM

Posts: 474
Joined: February 24, 2013

When high, things come fast, things seem more fun! I have an energy and a passion that I associate with " the real me" More outgoing, daring, confident - bold!! I just a nervous loudmouth who rambles too much? The truth is probably somewhere in between but probably skews to the latter. I wanted to be high and get something down about the thought process that seems to be so in direct conflict with what I believe to be right. This 'moral' question - one of the main reasons I was writing to my pastor about anything and everything. I tend to think like this ' a lot' when I'm high, especially the spiritual stuff.

The questions "why do you do this?" and, "what do you want" have to be answered for me to really truly put it behind me. I can do the physical for months if need be - But what about the winter? or Summer? for that matter if we have another dry year. Free time and uncertainty and a feeling of being out of control of the things in life that control me are a bad combination for me to have.

and that's where faith come in

Faith - the belief in things unseen . that confidence that no matter what life throws at you it doesnt matter - you got it.... Well I've had it, at points in my life , only to Lose it - Not in God , but me.

That's what really baffles me about this stuff. I feel so alive!! WHY! does it have to be wrong? The strongest reason I have is due to the smoke damage , but that can be minimized with my method of use, Hell, you want to smoke in a bong and MUCH of the tars and resins are gone by the time they reach your mouth. Besides, I have been a REAL pain in the a** to those around me as of late - Snapping at everyone over the smallest of things. When I am in a good mood like this I become really relational. But again, Lets put this in perspective, the first high of the day is always the best! The rest is just chasing - chase too much? All of the sudden you 'need' it to be normal. MUST have it to function - Is that now where I'm at right now in terms of motivation. Most honest answer is I am inspired to things much more than straight but I am also not as good at getting 'work' done while stoned. Yeah! I want to write but I need to collect my snow money before the grass grows - Everything should have been out last Thurs!!

And heres my current cycle. No motivation to do things when straight ( and going thru withdrawal). I get depressed when I put stuff off. Then, dont want to excersize when depressed and also want to avoid everyone. Get pissed off about being down...then...BlAM!!.... I start snapping about every little thing. Last weekend was bad because I stopped doing my 15 min of exercise each day. 15 f***ING MINUTES how unmotivated do I have to be to not do 15 minutes??

Allright, when high, chemical b****** upstairs start pushing buttons making me know how GOOD he feels when he gets what he wants. Just a harbinger of things to come when he starts to see me flip him off in the mirror again. That's what I tell myself now when I flip off my reflection. NOT intended for me but YOU - you unsuffrable, little tantrum-throwing , insatiable, sick..twisted f***! Stop putting me thru hell because I took away your allowance - your recreational fix. ALSO, You better stop bogartin the dopamine when I'm working out or trust me - I'll find something that will shut you up!! Thorazine...electroshock!! f*** with me and I'll mature your a** up in a hurry!! OH, and one more thing crybaby little b**** - I WANT TO EAT NORMAL AGAIN. Keep f***ing with my appettite or I will deny you sugar, caffeine, HEll - I wont even give you a f***ing baby aspirin when you (not me) get a headache - DO WE UNDESTAND EACH OTHER you chemical candy-a**!! YOU WORK FOR ME!!!

That , my friends, is my mind on drugs. In a comedy club I would have actually done that bit live without ever even rehearsing it. I would have thought it , made a loose outline, and just went with it. WHAT? do I do with this?? I cant even tell if its funny - it sounded funny in my head....or is that the drug talking and not me. I've blurred the line so long I cant tell anymore.

Its been 45 min - If there's typos I apologize. Emphasis on speed right now. In person I talk really fast when high. I think it comes thru in the writing too - plenty of stuff to compare it to - I'll have to read it later when straight.. Another thing, this spontaneous energy is making me really want to do things -- I have a very small, fast closing window where if I really wanted to I could take my wife and kids to FL for 4 days . Have to back sun night - have no money, but things like this dont seem to get in the way with this high ambition I feel right now... Have to see how I feel later about those things because I really do have a lot of work to do. But these are all things I enjoy doing and I just tend to indulge myself when high I guess, only, its not just for me - I would love to see the ocean and my son is already there, I have a place to stay, my mom lives in central FL only need gas money and a little for meals??

But it probably wont work still, getting out of the house, mending fences , and the relational goals all seem important right now. However , responsibilities, focusing on longer term goals , and the unforseen things that could go wrong just dont seem to register as much. I'm an hour in now, and it is fading fast! Getting more reasonable already....If only being high wasnt so much fun. But I know, If I got high a little more often this enthusiasm quickly seems to fade quicker and quicker. Until I get to where I was....Just getting nothing done and not even that happy even with the first high of the day. Being able to compromise between the two is such an illusion!!

During my pot days I had an almost 7 year period of abstinence - one exception, on vacation, one joint, couldnt get more. I was able to handle that 'just one time scenario' but with this stuff so easy to obtain I am not sure I will ever trust myself enought to even do the once a week thing.

Its almost all gone now - the buzz , that is. Had to stop writing and deal with kids.... Now I'm back to 'normal' more or less so.........til later

Please let me know what you think - it helps!

This post has been edited by DAC on March 13, 2013, 4:17 PM
Posted: March 13, 2013, 4:32 PM

Posts: 109
Joined: February 28, 2013

the daily mail is a total rag .... the people who read it in this country are right wing morons. . . that article, the comments made me furious. i signed up and left comments but they haven't been published, maybe they wont. . . but i'm glad it's at least hitting the papers that this stuff is addictive, and frankly i feel like contacting my local paper ... but that would just give free publicity to the stuff and people would go and smoke it ... for sure!!! such is the nature of humanity :/

and dac . . when i started smoking the first generation of spice, i WAS on anti-depressants ... i went MAD, was running about in the street in my dressing gown, tried to cut my wrists ended up in A&E .. yes. i could go on, but its bedtime.

peace, tog xxx
Posted: March 13, 2013, 5:44 PM

yeah, I read that site and just shake my head usually. However, even once you cut through the spin there is still more information on that site than pretty much ANY american one. They still haven't printed my comment... and I didn't even swear that time!
Posted: March 14, 2013, 1:14 AM

Holy f*** dac

I know my reaction to reading those last few posts shouldn't be this, that I should read through the manic obsessings and go, "yeah f*** that!" But I am honestly having a hard time remembering why I quit in the first place, other than it was expensive.

I no longer even want to be sober, and that's my fault, not yours.. I'm not trying to say I was fine until I read that, I'm saying my addict brain actually got so jealous that I wasn't the one experiencing that, that I can't figure out why the hell I'm not doing it.

We got more weed a few days ago, still very disappointing. I'm rationalizing big time. It is no longer working. I would rather use something that is poison part time, if it actually gets me high, than have this natural s*** disappoint me for the rest of my life. And I know I won't be able to afford to buy more than a couple bags a week so I physically can't allow myself to be really hooked like last time..

How the f*** did I get to this so fast?
Posted: March 14, 2013, 1:17 AM

And tog:

"when i started smoking the first generation of spice, i WAS on anti-depressants ... i went MAD, was running about in the street in my dressing gown, tried to cut my wrists ended up in A&E .. yes. i could go on, but its bedtime."

Please tell more... how old were you/ what happened?? Just extremely curious.
Posted: March 14, 2013, 3:16 AM

Posts: 474
Joined: February 24, 2013

Damn - just spent an hour writing really good stuff and when I went to post - I got a board message saying it was too long and when I hit the ' go back' button it was completely gone. I checked message length (it was under) so WTF!

IM SO PISSED - like I need to have more of that . I will attempt to recapture a little of it but 'damn' this is twice now this has happened. I lost a lot!

I was ready for bed - now?

I had just written how I was back to committing to that crucial first 24 hours and had just apologized for making this stuff sound appealing or tempting to others.

Now I am just ' aware' that the store will open in an hour. Its been 12 hours and since I cant sleep?? I am trying to put this away for good. But getting a clean start , momentum , I call it is hard to do for me. If I screwed up the day before , I usually screw up the next day too.. Addicts always look for an 'excuse' to fail.

This might cost me a day
Posted: March 14, 2013, 3:26 AM

Posts: 474
Joined: February 24, 2013

hey allison

I am a BAD example, learn from my mistakes - dont repeat them. I really regret losing my 'two week' streak. I regret it because the worst of the withdrawals were probably over and now I'm physically feeling some of the effects from not getting much sleep and as a result I am sneezing and have a sore throat. On top of the normal b.s.!!

Just stick with getting away from it for good , at least the synthetic, - that is my real goal! Failure sucks!!

I have to make shorter posts - Dont know if its my computer or what - too bad , I think you would have gotten a kick out of it, at least part of it was written down by hand from earlier so I got that at least....but

Posted: March 14, 2013, 3:33 AM

Posts: 474
Joined: February 24, 2013

If you can see the time of my posts you can see what this is doing to me. Only had two hours sleep last night as well. I feel like such a s*** for making making this sound good. I am here to encourage and support - not trip people up.

I'm so sorry......

This post has been edited by DAC on April 2, 2013, 2:51 PM
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